Scars of the girl beaten for being English in Scotland.

reply to post by NatureBoy


I think we choose to ignore the 70s, etc, and aim toward " the last few years " where we seemed to be making some progress.

Im fairly aware of the violence that used to occur in this town before I was born, but then we went into a bit of a quiet period. Still not as bad as it used to be, with fights and such every single night near every single pub. The police are doing quite a good job.

I agree about the 80s though, as I said i grew up in quite a rough area. I remember a night when the police came to investigate something and had to run into someones house to hide :p

Their car didnt survive. RIP. (SCUM DONE THAT!) I dont see a need for violence, why damage someone elses property (never mind another person)...

[edit on 15/1/09 by dawa]

Fred removed this post because it was off topic.
And it was too. Sorry about that.




[edit on 15/1/09 by Niall197]

Well... I cant name names it would seem. However:

Forgewood, I Lived right across the rail line from there in North Motherwell, around the time they moved CERTAIN PEOPLE into the GAS FLATS (the huge big blocks).

It got so bad in ONE OF THE BLOCKS (the whole place consisted of huge blocks, so this doesnt lead to anyones name Mr Moderator) where the people without shoes used to live, SPENDING IT ON ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES OF CHOICE, instead of shoes....

It got so bad around the time, they used to set fire to their own block - get the fire brigade out and brick them.

This is not off topic, as im Highlighting violence from the 1980s, mentioning no names, and explaining that Scotland is not this violent anymore.

The reason this is an appropriate topic, is these areas were mentioning used to be pretty damn "rough" in Scottish standards (apart from some of the areas of Glasgow which were maybe a bit worse! ) and no doubt youd have been killed in an instant were you English.

Weve come a long way from then..




[edit on 15/1/09 by dawa]

[edit on 15/1/09 by dawa]

Guys if you wish to tell stories of your old Hoods etc, please feel free to start a thread on BTS or u2u each other

Otherwise please stay on topic

Thanks
Fred

reply to post by FredT


I think he was attempting to disagree with the level of violence mentioned in the area of Scotland (which is pretty on topic, as were discussing all this violence in Scotland, especially regarding English people etc ) by pointing out he lived near the area I was highlighting and disagreeing :p

The truth is - communities do seem to stick together in strange, racist ways. I've seen this in quite a few parts of the UK. Trick is to keep yourself to yourself I guess. It must be a territorial thing.

Weird thing is,I've had abuse from Welsh people -and I'm welsh!.
To anyone who doesn't know the country well, or at all, the accents and dialect change within just a few miles, so generally people know where others are from just from hearing them speak. There are many accents.
Maybe the territory thing arises from 'foreign' accents. I sounded more english to some of these welsh I had abuse from - maybe they just assumed.
Also, welsh speakers occasionally have commented and laughed behind my and other's backs (I don't speak welsh).

As for scottish - I have met some scots outside of scotland and many seem abrupt to me (just how they are) but are generally ok people. Can be loud, whereas welsh seem quieter - just an observation.

Went to southern Ireland with many english people - didn't meet anyone with a problem about race or where anyone was from (they may exist of course). Generally I found the Irish good fun, open to talk to.

In england I have encountered many snidy racist type remarks. Whether it has any meaning (intention) or not, I've heard remarks against Welsh and scots an awful lot. - sad really that any of us should - we all have arms, legs, eyes etc. we are all fellow humans aren't we?

I think sometimes it is a territorial thing - maybe!
Sometimes it is just probably because of ignorance and comes from the mouths of people who just don't think or care- or care what they or others think, crack a joke as they think they're clever.

But punching someone in the face (and it being a guy hitting a girl!) is a bit past the line I think - not good!!

Oh Fred, you loveable old rogue, that was a bit harsh. First time I've ever been modded on ATS too. I was only respectfully pointing to Dawa that his no shoes story was a bit ... well, just a bit ... different to how I remembered things.

It was only a slight diversion between ourselves, it's so unusual to meet a Scot on here, even more so given that we (seemingly) grew up a few hundred yards apart. It was like meeting another Scots guy in the middle of nowhere in the Nevada desert ... but you're right it was off topic. Apols for my sudden burst of enthusiasm & amity

Haha Niall197, ill explain the no shoes part a bit clearer in a U2U or something... dont want to get in trouble with a mod again.

Overall, there may be some communities who " stick together and be all racist as a group ".

But even growing in up in such a rough area, with a family whove always lived in that area... i dont know a single person who would actually punch an english person - never mind a Woman ... for being English. Maybe a few snide remarks, ONCE WE GOT TO KNOW YOU and thats the important part there.

You always get a few people in a society who are the weakest link, who dont follow the rules, who dont respect that were all here to live together and will cause trouble.

reply to post by dawa


yeah its people doing bad things, lets not blame entire sections of society for it, its not everyone with a hood or everyone who hasa shell suit -calling for 'chavs' to be locked up won't help the situation, it just makes it worse.

oh and for the rest of the thread, of course scotish people hate english snobs - im from the home counties and i hate them (individually) but im not fool enough to think london is some magic power base where rich people ride white carrages -its a dive, like the rest of the world.

we all ignore the things we do to cause these situations, we all contribute to the problems of the world and then we act like its other people -it's great to have someone to blame, pick a group of people and blame them for everything wrong with the world -it's not that easy!

take scotland, england has been controlling it economicly for a long time however on its own would it be any better? SNP used to shout about how well iceland was doing, for a small nation economics is much harder than it is for a major player (such as the home of lloyds of london, FTSE, etc) so for all the negatives scotland have suffered they have had advantages such as stability.

When people learn to stop blinding themselves to the world through petty hate we might start to see the world getting better, while we're blaiming others it will only get worse.

Originally posted by NatureBoy

yeah its people doing bad things, lets not blame entire sections of society for it, its not everyone with a hood or everyone who hasa shell suit -calling for 'chavs' to be locked up won't help the situation, it just makes it worse.

Aye those people are incredibly stupid. But then so are people who tell us to lay off because they're "victims of the system" or some other apologist rubbish.

When people learn to stop blinding themselves to the world through petty hate we might start to see the world getting better, while we're blaiming others it will only get worse.

Aye best of luck with that -_-

[edit on 15-1-2009 by jBrereton]

reply to post by dawa


Err...don't quite know why you were 'replying' to me, but you made very valid points! Justice is seldom served...

Originally posted by jBrereton

Or perhaps something more mundane, like "the benefits of the boom under New Labour aren't filtering down to the very poor as much as anyone else".

That's entirely possible, but could be said for the whole of the U.K...

Originally posted by Niall197

There is widespread dislike of the English north of the border. For some of the Scottish contributors here to deny that fact in order to make Scotland look good on an international forum is just burying their heads in the sand.

The word most commonly used in Scotland after the adjective English is ... bastard, as in "he's an English bastard". That wording is used by folks of all classes, ages right across the country. It's used to their faces, it's spoken behind their backs and sometimes like this case it's followed by something rather more sinister....

There is also widespread dislike of Scots in England - almost every time I've been anywhere in England I've had "Bloody Jock wanker!" or similar spouted in my face. I also have friends who were chased and assaulted by a gang in London apparently because they spoke with Scottish accents. That doesn't make me think all English people hate Scots, just that England has it's fair share of ignorant twats just like anywhere else. Nor do I think any of us here are trying to deny anything, or trying to make our country look good. We know we have beautiful countryside that people should visit, but we also know we have a lot of bad areas that should be avoided whether you're Scottish/English/Martian/whatever. Just like England...

reply to post by NatureBoy


Och Natureboy..

When i said "neds/chavs" i was just trying to make it easier for english people to understand.

I wouldnt call someone who wore a stinky tracksuit or a hoodie a ned (or a chav)... the neds are the type who go out and stab folk, smash windows, steal cars - drive them to the woods and set them on fire.

I wouldnt say you were a ned/chav just because you wore the same clothes :p

What im trying to say is, there is always a few people in every single society who will beat someone up regardless... the whole "its because she was English" is invalid because these are the guys who were going to beat someone up that night regardless and it just so happened a poor english girl was walking past. AND those are the type of people who should be in jail. As the guy above said, there are areas you should avoid regardless of where youre from, and that was probably one of them.

I generally wear Jeans and T Shirt... out of Asda totalling about £5... im sure i fit into some sort of group if you go by clothes...im probably not part of it (unless its " tight gits who wotn spend money on clothes unless they have to)



[edit on 15/1/09 by dawa]

reply to post by matsplat


yeah wales is funny, i go to north wales all the time its a great place and the people are really nice but once, only once i was racistly abused by a 90yo woman! haha she commented on my coat 'thats a nice coat' she said and i smiled and said 'thanks' at which point she realized i was english and scowled 'shame its being worn by an english #cough# like you' -haha i was shocked!

Funny thing is i look welsh because my grandfather and his grand father and his grandfather were all coal miners so when i go into a shop often people speak welsh to me at first but when they find out i'm english they're shocked but still polite.

i don't think this could ever happen... oh wait no i forgot about Cardif, Swansea, etc which are really violent, hmmm this could happen in wales but like scotland only if your somewhere like glasgee.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by NatureBoy]

reply to post by Niall197

The English are hated there because they were murderous thugs! You could still see signs prohibiting blacks, dogs and Irishmen from English pubs in the 1980s and the attitude doesn't seem much better now. Don't even mention the racial problems!
That poor girl probably is a victim of growing discontent against the House of Commons though Gordon Brown is a Scot. Great Britain is really falling apart at the moment and 99.9 percent of it due to poor English policy-making. If you think times are bad here it is far worse in Britain.

reply to post by dawa


hehe ok fair nuff we're reading from the same page

personal responsibility is easy to demand of others, everyone seems to be pointing the finger but no one's looking at themselves. this is why we all like to pretend the world is falling apart and violent gangs are roaming the streets, it means we can say 'oh these people are ruining the world while i'm just trying to survive best i can' it gives us a reason to carry on ignoring the work to be done in our lives if the world is to made nice.

This post isnt aimed at you nature, its aimed at secretagent woooman
Och stop talking rubbish.

Im an average Scotsman, I work in a normal job, I was brought up in a "normal place" ((bit rough)) , and i was brought up to " hate the english ".

Had I ever, as a child, hit an English child Id have had my "arse skelpt" and sent to my room :p

The poor girl was beaten up because, quite frankly, the government arent doing enough to stop people doing these things. We need more jail sentences, jails where people cant sue for human rights abuse because they have to clean up their own mess ( WHAT?! i have to clean my own mess!!!!) and so on. And that would sort this rubbish out.

Sure we " hate the english " but its not a real hatred the majority of the Scots feel its more of a hate you feel for a friend when hes pissing you off. Id die fighting for the UK, i honestly feel we should have national service back... , and when i say the UK that includes the guys who love the sheep (aberdeen and wales )

[edit on 15/1/09 by dawa]

Originally posted by secretagent woooman
reply to post by Niall197

 

The English are hated there because they were murderous thugs! You could still see signs prohibiting blacks, dogs and Irishmen from English pubs in the 1980s and the attitude doesn't seem much better now. Don't even mention the racial problems!

Aye it might not 'seem' better if you're an utter cretin or something. Things are very different now. The only people who vote for racist parties are utter plebs, and luckily we've not got many left - the BNP does incredibly poorly on a national level, despite the white angst about them.

That we were 'murderous thugs' a few centuries ago doesn't mean that nothing's changed, you know.

That poor girl probably is a victim of growing discontent against the House of Commons though Gordon Brown is a Scot. Great Britain is really falling apart at the moment and 99.9 percent of it due to poor English policy-making. If you think times are bad here it is far worse in Britain.

Uhu... you going to back up any of your completely unqualified statements?

reply to post by SvenTheBerserK


I honestly don't understand why the Scots (amongst others) Hold on to a hatred that is centuries old.

The Scots aren't deprived in any way, they share the same privileges as anyone else in the United Kingdom.


I think it's time to stop moaning about something that happened hundreds,maybe thousands of years old and move on.

William Wallace is dead, Died over 700 years ago for god's sake.

Well, as a Yank, if I got caught up in a debate between an Englishman and a Scott, because they talk funny and it is fun to listen, it would quickly become a debate of a Yank verses two Britons. Of course I would have to bring up some war in the past, and then buy drinks to apologize, and then take some sheeit about GW, which would result in the other two buying drinks, and that is the way it tends to go.

Well only a couple of total wankers (is that term still relevant?) would hit some girl because she wore the wrong symbol. That is just wrong. If you are going to start a fight because you are young and you don't know what to do with yourself, and most of us have all been there, find someone who can fight back to make it worth while.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by poet1b]

Well the scots are brutal... I'm part scottish and part english... but I'd guess they'd hate me most for being american heheh..