The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


so you had to make another thread and couldn't do a search .........*sigh*.. and Anti GOD thread .. blah blah blah .. everything out of context.. no READING what so ever!


but hey .. you'll get ATS points.. right??

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by noonebutme

 

I tell you it makes no sense! And the reason it makes no sense is because it was written by men who were trying to explain events they didn't fully understand. The same applies to any mythology...except in the case of the Bible, people don't like it when you call it mythology. Who's to say that the Bible holds truth over Greek Mythology or Egyptian Mythology or Sumerian Mythology? No one, because we weren't there when these men wrote these things.

What we do know is that there were no scrolls or writings or books that just fell out of the sky one day courtesy of God or Zeus or Ra or Gilgamesh, or anyone else for that matter. The flaw in all religion is that it is dictated by man, manipulated and changed by man and blindly followed by man.

On what research do you base your opinion?
What do you say to the millions of people who profess to have had personal experiences with angels, Chist, or the Holy Spirit, that are so profound that their lives, minds, and hearts were forever changed?

reply to post by Komodo


What exactly is out of context here? The thread isn't "anti god", it simply asks the question of the Bible being the "word" of god. Sure there may be similar threads, but I haven't seen any.

The Bible is God's book, no doubt. I wish the doubters would actually spend some time reading some articles about the amazing prophecies and how most of them have been fulfilled to the letter. These were not generic "one-fits-all" prophecies, they surely had to seem peculiar back in the day, the Prophets must surely have been following the inspiration of God to have had the backbone to publicize them. But it's all there in black and white now.

reply to post by John Matrix


For every person that has had an experience like you describe, there is a person that has had an experience with some other type of being that doesn't involve god or Christ or angels. And those experiences have equally changed their lives.

The FACT of the matter is that men have been writing out religious beliefs for themselves for a very long time and there are a LOT of beliefs that extend beyond Christianity and the Bible.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

1 Tim. 2:12-15

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet,

13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve."

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by undo]

1 Timothy is about defending sound doctrine, and refuting false teachings.

The word “authority” in the Greek is "authentein", which is only used once in the New Testament. That explains something about the issues Paul is speaking into. The word authentein means “to claim authorship over something or someone…”

The false Teaching that Paul was addressing here is the claim that women are the originators of man and therefore superior to Man.

Hmmmm! Now things are making sense.
So, Paul points out that this teaching is incorrect, because “Adam was formed first, then Eve”.

The fact the Paul mentions Eve being deceived comes into play because the Heresy of Gnosticism claimed that Eve had this superior knowledge when she took the fruit. But Paul states that transgression came because of the deception not knowledge.

Another point: Paul teaches about the spiritual "gifts" and the "fruit of the spirit" without any reference to a particular gender. Gifts of teaching and preaching are given to both men and women by the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

For every person that has had an experience like you describe, there is a person that has had an experience with some other type of being that doesn't involve god or Christ or angels. And those experiences have equally changed their lives.

The FACT of the matter is that men have been writing out religious beliefs for themselves for a very long time and there are a LOT of beliefs that extend beyond Christianity and the Bible.

The life changes I refer to produce Spiritual fruit and divine characteistics in the believer. Those being Humility, Meekness, Patience, Love for God, Kindness, Gentleness, Compassion, Peace, Joy, etc.

What type of life changing characteristics do those you refer to manifest in their lives?

reply to post by John Matrix


Aside from the "love for god" part, those things can be instilled in people without the Bible or without a belief that any kind of God exists. Don't you think it a little short sighted of you to say that the ONLY way to have these good qualities you speak of is through the "creator" presented in the Bible?

None of this even bears evidence to any argument about whether the Bible is man's book or the "word" of god.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by John Matrix

 

oh i never have thrown out the scriptures, i just don't think of them as purely infallible. i think the holy spirit is infallible, though

the book is good, but it's not God.

This page has a lot of really good historical information concerning false teachings that Paul was faced with, for example:
People were fiercely passionate about The Lady of Ephesus and flew into a blind rage when Paul rejected her divinity. Artemis was the fertility goddess and protector of women (keep that in mind for later). The female-focused cult of Artemis taught female superiority and dominance based on their claim that women were descendants of mythological Amazon women.

christianfeminism.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Aside from the "love for god" part, those things can be instilled in people without the Bible or without a belief that any kind of God exists. Don't you think it a little short sighted of you to say that the ONLY way to have these good qualities you speak of is through the "creator" presented in the Bible?

None of this even bears evidence to any argument about whether the Bible is man's book or the "word" of god.

There are false projections of those Divine characteristics from those who are still living under the power of nature(without a rebirth of the supernatural Spirit in their Souls). When the Spirit comes, the spirit manifests those Characteristics in and through the believer. They are not mearly a false projection of them by an unbeliever who is motivated by Pride and desires self exaltation. The Spirit glorifies God, not Self.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Aside from the "love for god" part, those things can be instilled in people without the Bible or without a belief that any kind of God exists. Don't you think it a little short sighted of you to say that the ONLY way to have these good qualities you speak of is through the "creator" presented in the Bible?

None of this even bears evidence to any argument about whether the Bible is man's book or the "word" of god.

The Bible is the road map to God and the insights found therein give us a glimps of the Mind of God. It is the Holy Spirit that gives the believer the "Mind of Christ", which allows us to search and discern all things....even the deep things of God. The Bible is foolishness to those that are perishing.

reply to post by John Matrix


Can you give me some facts to back that up? Because as far as facts are concerned, the Bible is composed of several writings, written by men and assembled by the church who cherrypicked their way through the writings and even some wordings.

Anyone with beliefs differing from the ones presented in the Bible was hunted down, executed and/or tortured. I'm sure god loves that.

Besides the fact that there are numerous contradictions in the Bible itself, most people that follow the Bible also like to cherry pick their way around what is said in it.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Can you give me some facts to back that up? Because as far as facts are concerned, the Bible is composed of several writings, written by men and assembled by the church who cherrypicked their way through the writings and even some wordings.

Anyone with beliefs differing from the ones presented in the Bible was hunted down, executed and/or tortured. I'm sure god loves that.

Besides the fact that there are numerous contradictions in the Bible itself, most people that follow the Bible also like to cherry pick their way around what is said in it.

I don't have to back it up. I am living proof.
Have you studied the historicity of Jesus or the Bible, the Church, historical and archaeological findings that support scripture, etc.
What do you base your opinions on? Are you an expert? A scholar? Have you spend hundreds or thousands of hours studying these very issues to come to your conclusions? What tools do you use as an expert on the Bible? What education makes you an expert on the Bible?

You are just babbling gibberish from a mind that is at enmity to God.
You know NOTHING of what you are talking about.
Your opinions are PURE conjecture, wishful thinking, assumptions, and false preconceptions that are not based on any research.

I hope for your sake you are right and I am wrong.
Good luck with your opinion?
I hope it serves you well.
I know where you stand and where you are going.
I can't help you.
There is no point in continuing this exchange.
Your mind is made up.
So good luck.
Oh! My questions to you are rhetorical.
Don't bore me with an answer to any of them.
I know exactly where you are coming from, and from your perspective you are correct.
Happy now?

reply to post by John Matrix


By evading my question and failing to provide any facts in the matter, saying that "you are living proof" and not explaining why, you are making every statement you directed at me apply to yourself as well. Your statements are only conjecture, I gave facts. The book did not fall out of the sky and was written by men, therefore it is man's book.

This will be my last post here, because it is obvious that you are unwilling to look at or provide facts and are simply judging others on your personal faith or belief.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

By evading my question and failing to provide any facts in the matter, saying that "you are living proof" and not explaining why, you are making every statement you directed at me apply to yourself as well. Your statements are only conjecture, I gave facts. The book did not fall out of the sky and was written by men, therefore it is man's book.

This will be my last post here, because it is obvious that you are unwilling to look at or provide facts and are simply judging others on your personal faith or belief.

Of course it's a book written by men...printed on paper, etc. That's why I call it the "road map" or "Schoolmaster" that leads people to God and gives us a glimps into the mind of God, as experienced and seen by other men.....So What? We get that point. Does that validate any reason to put it down and not study it with an open mind?

How do we learn anything if not for man writing books and recording history, things learned by experience, etc.

Boy, who is dumbing down America?

reply to post by John Matrix


I never said not to read it with an open mind. I have. But with that, I believe it to be mans book and that only. As I said, man has been writing religion for itself for as long as it has been able to write.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

I never said not to read it with an open mind. I have. But with that, I believe it to be mans book and that only. As I said, man has been writing religion for itself for as long as it has been able to write.

I will accept that as your expert opinion.
BTW, I am anti-religious.

Religion is a system built by man as a means to reach God and Please Him.

Christianity is all about God Reaching out to Man: to redeem his lost Spirit, renew his soul(heart and mind) and transform him into a being that is pleasing to God.


[edit on 16-1-2009 by John Matrix]

reply to post by John Matrix


Thank you for your kind debate and not blowing everything out of proportion, eventually calling me nasty names as has happened in other threads before. Opinion is opinion and I've enjoyed this conversation Good day to you.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Thank you for your kind debate and not blowing everything out of proportion, eventually calling me nasty names as has happened in other threads before. Opinion is opinion and I've enjoyed this conversation

Good day to you.

That is extremely gracious of you. Thanks.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by John Matrix

 

oh i never have thrown out the scriptures, i just don't think of them as purely infallible. i think the holy spirit is infallible, though

the book is good, but it's not God.

Sorry for the repost, but I don't want this to get lost in the back pages.
I read this again and the insight is very eye opening concerning Pauls's words in 1 Timothy.

christianfeminism.wordpress.com...

christianfeminism.wordpress.com...

[edit on 16-1-2009 by John Matrix]