The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

I'd honestly prefer if we got back on the original topic of the Bible and I think you, as a believer, would do well in doing that, because delving into the realm of evolution versus creation is just going to get you pwned harder.

Wow!
Just didn't realise I strayed so far off topic at your request. lmao.
Didn't mean to get you all hostile. You're a knee slapper and get that finger out of my face. That's just rude.

reply to post by randyvs


You said the Bible has scientific facts so I requested them, to my understanding you were the one who mentioned evolution in the first place. It doesn't matter though, let's just get back to the topic. And I've got no hostility toward you.

So back to the topic: Why do you believe that the Bible is the word of God despite the contradictions I and the others have mentioned?

Titen and K J, I just couldn't resist seeing all the trouble you're going through trying to get a fundamentalist believer to actually answer a straight question with a straight answer.

So as a break from the monotony, I offer you this:













These are just some of my favorites. The first one really explains what you're going through.

Good luck.

King

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Kingalbrect79]

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Kingalbrect79]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

So back to the topic: Why do you believe that the Bible is the word of God despite the contradictions I and the others have mentioned?

To that your own words will suffice.

In conclusion: You did offer a few good ones but others you had to interpret in a certain way

Your rigid criticism, of people trying their best to describe things they couldn't have possibly understood with their limitations in terminology,
was more than expected.


[edit on 7-7-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs

of people trying their best to describe things they couldn't have possibly understood with their limitations in terminology,

You believe these people were being spoken to by a supernatural all powerful being right? Than there is no excuse for them to have been struggling to describe what God showed them - God could easily have created new words for them to use and could have beamed lifetimes worth of knowledge on any subject imaginable directly into their skulls. You mean to tell me that instead God decided to send his message to a bunch of backwards primitives knowing full well they would get it wrong and that people down the line would misinterpret it? You might as well be phrasing it this way:

God failed to reveal himself properly so the authors ended up with a lot of self-conflicting wishy-washy content.

In which case it would still NOT be the Word of God.

In the end determining whether the Bible is the word of God can be done regardless of who wrote it and how much they knew. The logical errors, historical errors, scientific errors and more all add up to it NOT being perfect, divine, inerrant and therefore not the Word of any God. What you have is a set of myths written by mere mortals that is objectively no better than any of the other myths of the ancient world.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


You sir..................................just Pwned.

I think the discussion should end with your comment. Perfect clincher.

King

back from my research:

you said:

Wow. I already said each and every one of those signs can be construed to be happening in ALL TIME PERIODS to suit your purposes. And yes I did refute your claim, the world after 1914 is MORE prosperous than the one before it, the life span and population skyrocketed thanks to modern medicine and science.

You are wrong, you are guessing that 1914 is the start of these but all of these things existed in other time periods and yes often AT THE SAME TIME as each other. Go back to the Black Plague and you'll find Famine, Death, Pestilence, War (crusades), etc. You are wrong.

Just to be clear let me please repeat what I said:

They are composite signs that belong to a specific / particular time; that is, you will see all of them happening during that time period – worldwide. Just like a fingerprint is unique to an individual, they cannot be mistaken to identify that time period.

Not like what you said “each and every one of those signs can be construed to be happening in ALL TIME PERIODS to suit your purposes.”
But if they are as you say “so vague as to fit ANY TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY after the advent of civilization…” then the evidence should confirm it.

OK finished my research as you’ve suggested - took a look at Black Plague time period to see if the “signs” fit the picture.

Let me list just 10 “signs” again to have a proper perspective.

Here’s where I started with this topic: www.abovetopsecret.com...

1) “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom” (Matt. 24:7)

Here’s what I found:
Q: According to history the Black Plague occurred in the 14th century. Did the nations or kingdoms of the world back then warred with each other?
Genghis Khan (1162-1227) founded the Mongol Empire by invasions and raids. By the end of his life the Mongol Empire occupied portions of Central Asia and China.

en.wikipedia.org...

According to some the descendants of Genghis Khan killed c. 35 million Chinese peasants from 1311 to 1340 and destroyed whole civilization from the Pacific to the Adriatic Sea (I’m not sure about this as there was no specific source provided – I just jotted it down from a bible critic’s site).
In1337 the hundred year war between England and France started.

en.wikipedia.org...'_War

In 1370 Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) a (Tartar – Muslim of Mongol decent) Turkic conqueror continued his conquest and expanded it as far as Baghdad, Damascus and India. Died in 1405 during the campaign against China.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Crusades – was a religious campaign instigated by Christendom so it’s not a part of the “signs” of that time period as the Crusades occurred in the 11th, 12ta and ended in the 13th century.

en.wikipedia.org...

Compare these “wars – empire expansions/subjugations/crusades” with the 1914 time period – within a generation the whole world suffered great wars – WWI and WWII and many more wars after it. Nations and Kingdoms warred against each other - a clear sign of the time period mentioned in the Bible.

Link showing the “Wars and Genocides on the 20th Century”:

www.scaruffi.com...

More here: users.erols.com...

Notice some of the comments about 1914 and after

“It may be that, after the seeming inevitability of two world wars, the creation of nuclear weapons was an admonitory gift, which spared us a third clash of great nations and introduced the longest period of general peace, albeit a peace of terror, since Victorian times. . . . What had gone wrong with humanity? Why had the promise of the nineteenth century been dashed? Why had the twentieth century turned into an age of horror or, as some would say, evil?”—A History of the Modern World—From 1917 to the 1980s, by Paul Johnson.

“Of all the convulsive transformations of the European system, the Great War and the peace settlement brought about the sharpest break with the past, economically and socially no less than politically. . . . The mellow glory of that freely operating and productive system had vanished in the catastrophe of war. Instead, Europe had to cope with economic exhaustion and universal economic dislocation. . . . The damage was so great that the European economy did not recover from stagnation and instability before the next world war struck.”—The World in the Crucible 1914-1919, by Bernadotte E. Schmitt and Harold C. Vedeler.

“In the Second World War every bond between man and man was to perish. Crimes were committed by the Germans under the Hitlerite domination to which they allowed themselves to be subjected which find no equal in scale and wickedness with any that have darkened the human record. The wholesale massacre by systematised processes of six or seven millions of men, women, and children in the German execution camps exceeds in horror the rough-and-ready butcheries of Genghis Khan, and in scale reduces them to pigmy proportions. Deliberate extermination of whole populations was contemplated and pursued by both Germany and Russia in the Eastern war. . . . We have at length emerged from a scene of material ruin and moral havoc the like of which had never darkened the imagination of former centuries.”—The Gathering Storm, Volume I of The Second World War, by Winston S. Churchill.

“There is now a recognition of the human rights of people of all classes, nations, and races; yet at the same time we have sunk to perhaps unheard-of depths of class warfare, nationalism, and racialism. These bad passions find vent in cold-blooded, scientifically planned cruelties; and the two incompatible states of mind and standards of conduct are to be seen to-day, side by side, not merely in the same world, but sometimes in the same country and even in the same soul.”—Civilization on Trial, by Arnold Toynbee.

cont...

[edit on 8-7-2010 by edmc^2]

...

“Like a ghost that lingered past the appointed hour, the nineteenth century—with its essential orderliness, its self-confidence, and its faith in human progress—had tarried until August 1914, when the major European powers suffered a collective attack of muddleheadedness that led directly to the senseless slaughter of millions of the best young men of a generation. Four and a half years later, as the world tried to pick up the pieces after the wrenching cataclysm of the Great War, it became apparent to many (but by no means all) contemporary observers that the last remaining vestiges of the old order had been swept away, and that mankind had entered a new age that was considerably less rational and less forgiving of human imperfections. Those who had expected peace to usher in a better world found their hopes betrayed in 1919.”—The preface in 1919—The Year Our World Began, by William K. Klingaman.

“Some believe that significant driver of many of the problems at the end of the 20th century was overpopulation. Yet the 20th century is most notable for the sheer numbers of mass genocide and the killing of over 262 million people by government. See, for example, "Power Kills" and updated statistics for 1900-1999 at the University of Hawaii. Government action, rather than economic or social conditions, or even international conflict and war, were the driving causes of death in the 20th Century.”

en.wikipedia.org...

Conclusion:
Black Plague (BP) time period – 50/50 fit the criteria
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

Side note: I need to correct something you misquoted.

You said:

You claim Matthew 24 is talking of WW1. Care to prove that. You can't. Jesus's statement is highly vague, all he mentions are kingdoms. Want to know something? Most of the nations involved in WW1 did not have kings and were not kingdoms[

Titen, if you need to quote something can you be at least be accurate. Here what Jesus said “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom”

As for this wildly inaccurate statement of yours “ Most of the nations involved in WW1 did not have kings and were not kingdoms” I dunno but last time I checked – Britain/England was and still is a Kingdom ruled by a King.

Germany is also a Kingdom.(www.btinternet.com...)
Spain is ruled by a King, Australia was ruled by a Queen
While the United States is a Nation and other participants were considered Nations.

List of Kingdoms and Nations who participated in WWI
www.u-s-history.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
List of current Kingdoms:
en.wikipedia.org...

Next sign..
2)“There will be food shortages . . . in one place after another” (Matt. 24:7)

Both the Black Plague and 1914 generations suffered food shortages.
But food shortages that started in 1914 are still rampant today due to economic situations and will only stop until the system ends. The length of the 20th century famines are longer than any other time period and the scope is far wider. See comparison list on the wiki link provided.

Link showing the List of Famines throughout the centuries:
en.wikipedia.org...

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – somewhat fit the criteria.
1914 Time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

Next:
3) “There will be great earthquakes” (Luke 21:11)

Q: Was there “great earthquakes” during the Black Plague generation? There was a mention of 1348 in Europe.
1356 - Swiss city Basel
1337 to 1345 – China

Compare it with the 1914 time period. What are the frequency, intensity and magnitude of earthquakes and locations? 5? 10? 50? 100? more?

Following are the evidence and references:
www.pdc.org...
earthquake.usgs.gov...
earthquake.usgs.gov...
earthquake.usgs.gov...
Some interesting comments and statistics here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – maybe
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

4)“In one place after another pestilences” (Luke 21:11)

Both the Black Plague and 1914 generations have pestilence but the difference is the number of pestilences (diseases). From 1914 onward – we experienced the Spanish flu, heart disease, TB, malaria, respiratory infections, meningitis, HIV/AIDS, H1N1, bird flu and many more. These “pestilences” will be (and are still) occurring “in one place after another”.

Note: from en.wikipedia.org...

“Notable diseases of the 20th century
An influenza pandemic, the Spanish Flu, killed anywhere from 20 to 100 million people between 1918 and 1919.
A new viral disease, AIDS, arose in Africa and subsequently killed millions of people throughout the world. AIDS treatments remained inaccessible to many people living with AIDS in developing countries, and a cure has yet to be discovered.

Because of increased life spans, the prevalence of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and other diseases of old age increased slightly.

Sedentary lifestyles, due to labor-saving devices and technology, contributed to an "epidemic" of obesity, at first in the rich countries, but by the end of the century, increasingly in the developing world, too.”

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – maybe
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

next:
5)‘Increased lawlessness accompanied by a cooling off of love on the part of the greater number’ (Matt. 24:11, 12)

You can say both time periods experienced lawlessness but the difference is the scope and the magnitude of the lawlessness in the so called “civilized world”.

Take for example the word “terrorism” – if you google it, you’ll get about 38 million hits – much of it concentrated in the 20th century to present.
en.wikipedia.org...

More statistics here:
users.erols.com...

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – maybe
1914 time period – Absolutely / definitely fit the criteria 1000%.

cont...

next:
6)“Men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth” (Luke 21:25, 26)

You can say both time periods experience these events but the difference is in scope and magnitude and locations. For in the 20th century, but not before, planes and missiles have been used to send destruction streaking down from the heavens. Submarines carrying deadly loads of missiles prowl the seas, just one such submarine being equipped to annihilate 160 cities. No wonder the nations are in anguish!

Again add to that the growing “terrorism” both domestic and international, the coming global economic meltdown. Couple this with powerful big business not knowing what to do to stop the collapse of the economy. Then there’s the religious community which are in fear of being attacked. Then there’s the fear of diseases – new a powerful virus being discovered.

Let me quote again what I quoted last time:
Atomic scientist Harold C. Urey said:

“We will eat fear, sleep fear, live in fear and die in fear.”

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period– Do not fit the criteria.
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

7)‘Christ’s true followers to be objects of hatred by all nations on account of his name’ (Matt. 24:9)

Were true followers of Christ hated during the Black Plague time period? If you are referring to the crusades, again – sadly some of the so called “Christian Nations” commonly known as “Christendom” were the aggressors.

What about in the 20th cent – I’ll cite an example here: (note who the persecutors are)

en.wikipedia.org...'s_Witnesses

I’m sure other Christian organizations can provide additional evidence but the one I provided is strictly due to the teachings of Christ (very similar to what the 1st century Christians experienced) – such as “love your neighbor as yourself”, “love those who persecute you”, “we must obey God rather than man”. Due to “nationalism” they were and are still being persecuted.

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period– Do not fit the criteria.
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

8)‘This good news of the kingdom preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness’ (Matt. 24:14)

Was there a Global preaching activity during the Black Plague? Again if you are referring to the 11th, 12th and 13th cent crusades – those was not a “preaching” campaign but killing and subjugating campaign by Christendom in which countless innocents lives were taken.

Compare that with the 1914 time period – according to statistics available, the “good news of the Kingdom” has been preach throughout the world as a “witness” that so many people are getting tired hearing it. But as true followers of Christ we must continue to “preach” until the work is done.
Note this statistics: 1.5 billion hours spent world to “preach the good news” in more than 230 lands worldwide.

www.watchtower.org...

I’m sure other organizations can provide additional statistics but so far I can’t find anything that can surpass the one above.

As for the distribution of the Bible, according to statistics the Bible is the most widely distributed book in history—an estimated 4.8 billion copies have already been circulated. In 2007 alone, more than 64,600,000 copies were produced. Somewhere around 90% of the world’s language/dialects the Bible is available (partial/full).

Found this report: A Christian endeavor of almost 2,000 years could be substantially completed by 2025.

Protestant translators expect to have the Bible — or at least some of it — written in every one of the world's 6,909 spoken languages.
www.denverpost.com...

next
9) “For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.” (2 Peter 3:3-4)

Do you have any records of people ridiculing the word of God back then? Please let me know if you can find it. I would like to see it.

Since 1914 the “ridiculers” of the Bible and its message have increased a thousand fold! This thread alone shows that we are among the “ridiculers” with their ridicules. A sure sign of the “last days” predicted in the Bible.
Interestingly when I googled the words “Bible ridiculous” I got 1.9 million hits.

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period– Do not fit the criteria.
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 100%.

last one:
10) “RUINING THE EARTH.” (Revelation 11:18.)

Did the Black Plague time period have the potential to ruin the earth? No.
Compare it with the 1914 time period – starting with WWI down to the present, is the earth being ruined? Does the GOM Oil Leak have the power to “ruin the earth”? IF you are not yet convinced check this out:

en.wikipedia.org...

If just ONE OIL rig can cause this much damage in the GOM, CONSIDER PLEASE REST OF THE OIL RIGS that are in there – what is the potential that the older rigs will not blow up? Expand this worldwide – both land and sea based rigs.

Here’s how many that are in GOM and where they are located:
maker.geocommons.com...
en.wikipedia.org...:Gulf_Coast_Platforms.jpg

Mind you this is only talking about OIL Pollution. If you add the other equally deadly pollutants ruining the earth the evidence is staggering!

www.cleanairsys.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – Do not fit the criteria.
1914 time period – Definitely fit the criteria 1000%.

cont...

So out of 10 possibly one fit the criteria and the rest maybe and no way.
1914 Time Period – Undeniably fit the criteria 100%!

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ABOUT 1914 :

It’s not only me/us that is saying that the year 1914 was a marked year. Historians noticed it too.

I’ll quote a some here as evidence:

“Looking back from the vantage point of the present we see clearly today that the outbreak of World War I ushered in a twentieth-century ‘Time of Troubles’—in the expressive term of the British historian Arnold Toynbee—from which our civilization has by no means yet emerged. Directly or indirectly all the convulsions of the last half century stem back to 1914.”—The Fall of the Dynasties: The Collapse of the Old Order (New York, 1963), Edmond Taylor, p. 16

“People of the World War II generation, my generation, will always think of their conflict as the great modern watershed of change. . . . We should be allowed our vanity, our personal rendezvous with history. But we should know that, in social terms, a far more decisive change came with World War I. It was then that political and social systems, centuries in the building, came apart—sometimes in a matter of weeks. And others were permanently transformed. It was in World War I that the age-old certainties were lost. . . . World War II continued, enlarged and affirmed this change. In social terms World War II was the last battle of World War I.”—The Age of Uncertainty (Boston, 1977), John K. Galbraith, p. 133.

“Half a century has gone by, yet the mark that the tragedy of the Great War [World War I, which started in 1914] left on the body and soul of the nations has not faded . . . The physical and moral magnitude of this ordeal was such that nothing left was the same as before. Society in its entirety: systems of government, national borders, laws, armed forces, interstate relations, but also ideologies, family life, fortunes, positions, personal relations—everything was changed from top to bottom. . . . Humanity finally lost its balance, never to recover it to this day.”—General Charles de Gaulle, speaking in 1968 (Le Monde, Nov. 12, 1968, p. 9).

Do you agree with these historians including General de Gaulle?

So if as you say “they are so vague as to fit ANY TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY after the advent of civilization…” then surely the Black Plague should fit the criteria.

But a quick study showed the OPPOSITE. Unless you still want to dispute the evidence.

IF NOT, do you have any other time periods in mind that you want to consider? Because the Black Plague TIME period you mentioned FAILED TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT / STATEMENT!

My humble suggestion though – quit now while you can. You can do a intensive/extensive research all you want and will not be able to find any time like the 1914 time period. Why not? Because it was foretold in the Bible thousand years in advanced what will ‘mark’ the “LAST DAYS of this system of things”. Any true Bible student can understand see and observed and verify with certainty that “THE SIGNS” did indeed began in 1914!

Btw, if you are saying that the Black Plague time period was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the last days mentioned in the Bible – does it mean then that the “end” came during that time?

Note again what Jesus said in answer to the question “– “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matt 24:14) If you are not aware of it, this was an answer to the question to Jesus about “the conclusion of the system of things (world)” (Matt 24:3)

Also, I noticed that pretty much majority of your replies are just opinions – that is your opinion. You have not offered any historical evidence. Verifiable facts to back up your claim nor accurate Biblical evidence to back up your claim but twisted scriptures. Why is that?

As you can see I’ve proven my side of the ‘argument’ time and time again - backed it up with factual evidence both Historical and Biblical. All you did was offered your own opinion. Why is that?

Am I correct to assume that you can’t back up your claims with verifiable evidence? It is easy to say “Fail” to verifiable evidence if you don’t agree with it but to disprove with evidence it is a different matter.

My challenge to you – PLEASE DISPROVE that the (1914 time period) ‘EVIDENCE’ I’ve presented are NOT the “SIGNS” of the “LAST DAYS” that the Bible prophesied. Prove if you can that other than the 1914 time period, there's a TIME PERIOD that absolutely fulfilled the “SIGNS” - point by point if can.

I respectfully await your reply.

Ty,
edmc2

Later I’ll show you Biblical mathematics (in addition to the Biblical “SIGNS” that I’ve already provided) how and why the year 1914 was a “MARKED” year.

additional info on:
5)‘Increased lawlessness accompanied by a cooling off of love on the part of the greater number’ (Matt. 24:11, 12)

You can say both time periods experienced lawlessness but the difference is the scope and the magnitude of the lawlessness in the so called “civilized world”.

Take for example the word “terrorism” – if you google it, you’ll get about 38 million hits – much of it concentrated in the 20th century to present.

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice about the following statistics and comments about the “lawlessness” in the 20th century:

“Back in 1945 many persons in the United States were surprised that the total crimes reported to police rose to 1,566,000. But 35 years later the total reached 13,295,000—and is still rising! This is a 750-percent increase, while the population grew about 60 percent! Rape increased over 600 percent! Violent crimes in general, nearly 900 percent! Imagine, in 1981 one out of every three households was touched by some form of crime! And this trend is not just in the United States. “The one thing that hits you in the eye when you look at crime on the world scale,” wrote a leading criminologist, Sir Leon Radzinowicz, in his book The Growth of Crime, “is a pervasive and persistent increase everywhere. Such exceptions as there are stand out in splendid isolation, and may soon be swamped in the rising tide.”

Couple this with the abortions conducted and being conducted (legally/illegally) since 1914 – how many babies were and are still being killed? How much value does “life” have today? If you can lay down all of the dead bodies of aborted fetuses/babies since 1914 along the beach, how far do you think it will go? What happened to the “intrinsic love” among mothers towards their unborn child?

The “lawlessness” in the 20th century can’t be compared to any other time period.

More statistics here:
users.erols.com...

Conclusion:
Black Plague time period – maybe
1914 time period – Absolutely / definitely fit the criteria 1000%.

reply to post by edmc^2

Black Plague time period – maybe
1914 time period – Absolutely / definitely fit the criteria 1000%.

This is your opinion though. You listed wars, famine and plenty of pestilence and death going on during the Black Plague era that means it can fit the requirements of the overly vague prophecies in the Bible. The only reason its easier for you to pick 1914 and run with it is that you want the prophecies to be true and admitting that the Black Plague was equally bad with the first two world wars would prove you wrong.

Even if it wasn't worse civilization only got more prosperous, the lifespan increased, the population increased, food supply increased. 1914-1945 might have been rough but after that came a massive BOOM of prosperity, hardly what one might expect if we are nearing a coming apocalypse.

I've already explained the abortion thing anyway, infanticide was practiced in ancient times. Read your Bible, the Israelites are repeatedly commanded to kill children and even God gets involved in the slaughter in Egypt.

You can go on believing these are the end times all you want but at some point, when Jesus doesn't show, you're going to need to adjust your doomsday clock as believers have done FOR MILLENIA. Two Thousand years of predictions about the last days and two thousand years of failure, that alone PROVES how vague and wildly interpretable the Biblical Prophecies are.

reply to post by edmc^2


The things in the prophecies have always been here, will be here. Earth has changes, life is hard and people struggle, Virus evlolve and morph...bacteriara grows and the more people you have the more bacteria will spreads. Same with Virus's.

Im also just not seeing your 'evidence' as such that we are in end times or that there are even a 'end times'.

A great God....to use 'COMMON' Signs that have been around forever.....? Wouldn't Thee make signs that would be undeniable?? Like the laws of nature breaking? Why would they all be natural happenings that have always been happening.

Its not hard to make prophesies, things that are for sure to always be with us. Disease, struggles, people without food, Earths changes.....You your self can right a book, include these same prophecies for the future....and they will COME TRUE!

We have yet to see the ones that talk about for sure signs, like the 2 witnesses coming back to life amongst the others that seem to go against the laws of nature. Can something like this be staged????????????? Would someone stage such a thing to make people believe it is happening?? Make people think there are two who are dead and now are alive again?

I trust no man whom I dont know personally, and then, I still, am cautious of peoples agendas. Ive been around humans long enough to of learned my lessons.

Ive seen things right before my eyes happen, but my mind said....no way. I know things can happen that we dont understand....but put man in the middle of it all , man that I dont know, with personal agendas...I just dont think God is counting on me, to place my faith, in believing in other men.

I'll give a nugget...

The "key" to knowing whether it's the time of the end or if it's just a normal time for these signs is the word:

'Exponential Curves'

Look at the frequency of all these things and you'll notice that since 1917 they have all shot up vertically on a line graph in exponential curves.

It's the exact time Jesus spoke of, the end times.

HERE



[edit on 9-7-2010 by NOTurTypical]

Whether it`s the end of times, or the end of days, call it what you will, it doesn`t matter, it does not mean it`s the end of life, or all life.

It means, it`s the end of an old way of life, transitioning into a new way of life, in how we see it, feel it, sense it, use it, and live it.





A wise man once said, "Death is nothing more than closing ones eyes to one reality, then, opening them to a new one.".

Going from one reality, to a new one is what this time is all about. It is a change in our awareness as a whole race.

reply to post by FiatLux


Copy that....

transitioning into a new way of life, in how we see it, feel it, sense it, use it, and live it.

Indeed

And all in a natural way that needed everything from the past to become what it will.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Look at the frequency of all these things and you'll notice that since 1917 they have all shot up vertically on a line graph in exponential curves.

It's the exact time Jesus spoke of, the end times.

Because Jesus spoke EXACTLY about Exponential Curves being the signs of the end, right?


Kap

Titen, It is mans book and Gods word, the thread question answers your question replacing and 'or' with an 'and'.

Perfection?,... no that would require that the language it be written in be perfect. Historical context, errors of man, transcription, translation all the issues you bring up do raise questions and are valid points of consideration when reading the bible.

The bible points man towards the truth, Jesus Christ and his divinity and that he is a kinsman redeemer, that is it's intention and purpose. If someone gets that out of it, even without believing the rest, that's OK. Problem is lack of belief in bible truth by default moves one away from Jesus,... enter the faith factor. Faith though based upon what your mind and senses are telling you about reality.

Does the bible appear to contain contradictions, yes, can we understand them all, no. Is the answer, "well God knows all and we don't so just accept it" an answer that satisfies most people, no.

All I can say is keep questioning, keep asking and searching. To do that you will need to be reading the bible searching out those contradictions. If you are going to be reading and searching the bible, then I for one am happy for I believe it will eventually serve its intention and purpose if you remain in a dialectic approach to the questions both within yourself and with others who believe different than you.

Regards

[edit on 9-7-2010 by slane69]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


hey Leo meant to post these to your birth star post to see what you thought and specifically bootes-


April 23, 2009: GRB 090423 in Leo holds the record for the farthest burst yet known -- 13.04 billion light-years away. "The burst is beyond the farthest confirmed galaxies and quasars, making it the most distant object we know in the universe today," Fox said. This find validates models suggesting that galaxy and star formation were well under way in the universe's first billion years and that some early stars died as bursts.

March 19, 2008: GRB 080319B, in Boötes, is truly extraordinary. It produces enough light to be seen briefly with the unaided eye, cresting at visual magnitude 5.3 despite occurring 7.5 billion light-years away -- or more than halfway across the visible universe. Scientists conclude that one of its particle jets appears to have been aimed squarely at Earth.

July 14, 2007: GRB 070714B explodes in Taurus. Afterglow observations indicate a distance of 7.3 billion light-years, making this one of the farthest short bursts to date.

Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.-Job9.9

canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?-Job38.32

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years-Gen1.14

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

hey Leo meant to post these to your birth star post to see what you thought and specifically bootes-


April 23, 2009: GRB 090423 in Leo holds the record for the farthest burst yet known -- 13.04 billion light-years away. "The burst is beyond the farthest confirmed galaxies and quasars, making it the most distant object we know in the universe today," Fox said. This find validates models suggesting that galaxy and star formation were well under way in the universe's first billion years and that some early stars died as bursts.

March 19, 2008: GRB 080319B, in Boötes, is truly extraordinary. It produces enough light to be seen briefly with the unaided eye, cresting at visual magnitude 5.3 despite occurring 7.5 billion light-years away -- or more than halfway across the visible universe. Scientists conclude that one of its particle jets appears to have been aimed squarely at Earth.

July 14, 2007: GRB 070714B explodes in Taurus. Afterglow observations indicate a distance of 7.3 billion light-years, making this one of the farthest short bursts to date.

Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.-Job9.9

canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?-Job38.32

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years-Gen1.14

Interesting No King...I wasnt expecting interests from you on such things. We have always discussed the Bible.

Being able to observe these bursts is fascinating. It brings many questions to my mind. How big is the Universe. How much of the Universe is within our observational view....and how much of it is not.

The one about Boots was very interesting, shooting particle jets towards Earth.

What I find the most fascinating is that we still are seeing all sorts of new stars being born in many directions.

Do I think the Bible quotes are things God said...or told a man about....no, I dont. Do I think mans own understandings is what leads to verses like these...yes I do. Not saying the perfection and cycles and orders are not of Divine Emanations....but I think that man left many of his curious thoughts about the majestic realms of space in the Bible. To me, the stars are personified in the Bible in many places of it, even some of the very stories within it.

I wonder if such particles from the region of Bootes could reach Earth? I dont understand all the science of what happened to particles being sent out into space on such a journey.