Israel's Wall in the West Bank

Alot of people are unaware that Israel even has a wall, let alone that its waaaaaaaaaayyyy bigger than the Berlin wall...

www.vtjp.org...

that wall also violates international law, something Israel obviously feels it has the right to violate...

wow, not one person willing to voice an outrage? a "i agree wholeheartedly with the wall"? or even an aknowledgement?

I think i may have outdone myself here, (takes a bow)

reply to post by Grock
The wall has been on overwhelming success for Israel in defending itself from suicide attacks. Quite astonishing how successful really. This doesn't mean it's right, but when the buses were being blown up on a regular basis, there was no other option. From an Israeli security perspective incredibly effective.

It's more of a barrier system than a wall. Only 5% of the barrier is an actual concrete wall. 95% of the length is made up of chain link fencing with barbed wire at the top. Everyone loves showing the images of a concrete wall, but this only makes up a small portion of what the barrier is.

Some sections (less than 5% of total length) are constructed as a wall made up of concrete slabs up to 8 m in height and 3 m in width. ...

Wall construction (5%) is more common in urban settings, such as areas near Qalqilyah and Jerusalem, because it is narrower, requires less land, and provides more protection against snipers.

en.wikipedia.org...

This is what 95% of the barrier looks like.



[edit on 14-1-2009 by dbates]

originally posted by: Grock
wow, not one person willing to voice an outrage? a "i agree wholeheartedly with the wall"? or even an aknowledgement?

I think i may have outdone myself here, (takes a bow)

It took over 6 years but you finally managed to get a star and flag for your OP.
Now it may be time for all those who found this wall to be normal or acceptable to realise what for a policy it helped enforcing. Silence is the weapon of the hypocrites.

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

I also did add one star and flag...(now everyone knows)

here's JFK speaking "clearly" about the sphere of influence by Israel in the world


aftermath for JFK we all know...

"an error don't became a mistake until we refuse to correct it"

Northern Ireland has a wall too, keeps Protestants and Catholics apart.

That wall might, perhaps has, saved lives and property, so I agree with it, Northern Ireland has a wall too, comments?

Actually yes I agree and it needs finished. It would stop any further land takeover Israel haters keep bringing up and yet keep trouble out.
Why though there are things called tunnels even from Mexico to the US. I always thought we should have a Wall there as well. Better then snipers my 2nd option.

Countries should be able to defend their boarders by any means necessary. A Wall is better then other options.

a reply to: pikestaff
a reply to: Connman

Providing an other example of a problem is interesting if you want to illustrate another problematic situation.
Providing an other example of a problem to make a problem looks like a normal situation is pathetic.

You probably consider that walls have been part of the normal process going along with human civilization : when the humans became sedentary, walls or fences became mandatory in order to prevent the cattle from running loose. Then city walls, even the great wall of China, the Atlantic wall and the Maginot line, the Berlin wall, ... Most are now obsolete, dismantled or irrelevant. Have the places they once 'protected' abandoned all hope to live in peace, or is it just that they don't need them anymore ?

Why do you need a wall ? To prevent the problems you don't want, or have no apparent interest, to solve ? Your interest into a specific problem should rely on your ambition to avoid the side effects of it's 'cure' as well as its original symptoms - but for that you must have an interest real in peace.
Why build a wall to protect yourself and, at the same time, put in place a harassment policy :
The operational logic behind terrorizing Palestinians

The Pro-Israeli brigade will be here any minute.

originally posted by: Boeing777
The Pro-Israeli brigade will be here any minute.

... or maybe not? I mean, what is this thread about, what's it arguing for or against? Just another flimsy attempt to whip up anti Israeli or anti Jewish sentiments with a reminder that there's a wall in Jerusalem?

a reply to: Heliocentric

Or a flimsy attempt to let everyone open their eyes on an issue that is plaguing the entire middle-east ...
Please discover what a Jewish journalist has to deal with when experiencing the benefits of the wall from the Palestinian side :

The long road to Bethlehem
The long road to Bethlehem: Part two

Sorry if you find the ostrich policy more pleasant but, even in Israel, there are people who start to worry :

The Disaster Both Judaism And Israel Will Not Survive

...

The story here is not only the fact that for so many, Judaism “outranks” democracy in importance, though that is a disturbing situation in itself. The crux of the matter is that for the majority of Israel’s citizens the belief that the two of them can exist simultaneously is becoming increasingly impossible. The tragedy, then, is that, as in the Western world, in Israel, too, more and more people consider “Judaism” and “democracy” to be mutually exclusive entities.

The debacle here is above all cultural: It concerns the failure of Israeli society to forge a Judaism that is substantively democratic, a Judaism that self-evidently does not contradict democracy but, on the contrary, buttresses it. Instead, Judaism is being shaped as a violent ethnic identity, a Spartan religion of a nation of masters, an atavistic, nationalist entity, which instead of conducting a dialogue with modernity is choosing to divest itself of liberal traits it had already internalized, including some that were always ingrained in it.

This cultural debacle will become a historical disaster if, heaven forbid, Israel truly becomes exclusively “Jewish” in the future. Democracy will obviously suffer in that case, and along with it the population between the Jordan and the sea. A terrible period will ensue, but as with every past tyranny, this one, too, will collapse. When that happens, the true tragedy will be revealed: It will emerge that for the whole world, Judaism has become synonymous with apartheid and occupation, violence and oppression, despotism and subjugation.

Judaism has survived many disasters. This is one disaster it will not survive.

In case you wonder what for lunatic wrote these lines :

Dr. Tomer Persico is a fellow at the Elyachar Center for Studies in Sephardi Heritage at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, and teaches in the religious studies program at Tel Aviv University.

Of course, not all voices in Israel sound that way :

MK says advocating for two-state solution is treason

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

The above clip is not related to the west bank barrier in any way...

a reply to: MaxMech

It's about the real purpose of the barrier, as explained in the very first video I posted.
Is that the most constructive statement you can come up with on the topic ?

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

I think you are confused my friend. The video you posted is talking about Israel/Egypt border fence:


Your post is about the west bank barrier:



No relation...

a reply to: MaxMech

Indeed, and despite the political perspective expressed in my post about the one state/two state considerations, it is relevant to understand that, in a two state situation, this wall would act as a border.
Act as a border while not located on the border ...
And in a 'one state' situation, this wall would still stand in a middle of single country and create enclaves.

It will never be a guarantee of any safety for the jewish Israeli population unless they starts considering its construction and its existence is part of broader problem no one dared to address.
Because you need ultimately to take into consideration all aspects of the middle east issue and everyone concerned should consider a minimal amount of self-criticism.
This wall is like a bandage on a peg leg IMO.

Speaking of the prevention of immigration, I guess that for African refugees, Israel looks more like a destination of choice that the Palestinian territory or any other neighbouring country experiencing the joys of religiously infused wars. I'm quite sure that you know about the way the immigrants and the Ethiopian Jews are being treated in Israel atm. They wouldn't be demonstrating as they do now if everything was perfect.
Once Israel has made peace with itself, it can probably consider extending it to its neighbours as well.

It may looks like an easy job to point the finger at something that will obviously appear as a bad thing to the neutral observer. But given that most people only consider the advantages and benefits of that structure, that perspective needed to be shown as well. We both don't consider Fox news or any other mainstream media is likely to make any big show on the topic any time soon, don't you ? Why is that ? ... When you broader the perspective, you get more insight about the real complexity of the problem but that doesn't make the solution any more likely to happen. Maybe these internal Israeli troubles we now see are the beginning of some sort of 'Israeli spring' ... wait and see.

What I find the most surreal, is the separated roads for Palestinians and Israelis, which is a by product of the wall itself.