Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

reply to post by Mr Green


My goodness! So many pages and only one day!

I use this saying;

A spiritual awakening is when my spirit aligns with God's reality.

An enlightenment comes from outside myself. It is like a light bulb going off and I can only attribute it most of the time to God.

I do not do any formal meditation. I find that the messages I receive come pretty readily wherever I am. I enjoy going for walks and taking baths. At these times it is usually easier for me to be more interested.

It is awe inspiring whenever I receive new insight or information that comes to me that I have never encountered before. This is why it is so hard to explain, especially to an atheist. It is a situation where 2+2 does not always equal 4.

Like: Neil Donald Walsch, I too, have conversations with God, and have for many years. It is astounding to have conversations in your head and have totally different insight coming from him. You learn quickly that you aren't imagining it.

Sometimes it is emotional but more often than not; very logical. The more I let go of the filters between me and him, the easier it has become to connect to HIS reality.

Ironically, it did not really become active until I left religion, my biggest filter of all.

Edit to add: it also means using your senses. My senses are much higher in sensitivity. He has helped me to trust my senses, and has helped to develop them. This probably has been the greatest aspect.



[edit on 12-1-2009 by MatrixProphet]

Only to the ego. It is the natural state of consciousness itself, and scary would not apply at all to it. Not only because it is its (our) natural state, but because in that One there is no division/dualism, hence no fear.

This is spot on in my opinion. I welcome the other opinion because I enjoy having all perspectives in the discussion, but I really must stick to my experience and agree, an enlightened person would not be bothered by these things.

This thread got crazy didn't it. Bottom line is to be honest with yourself and try your best to walk the walk, or walk the path, lol.

Edit: to clarify this is for the Wertdagf discussion: I wouldn't be so quick to assume people on ATS are in need of saving. It requires some level of grounding and discernment to make a stay here somewhat enjoyable and useful in the first place.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Novise]

reply to post by Novise


Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. - Theodore Roosevelt

Seems like your idol said it best.

Originally posted by narin
Enlightenment is not new age, its a very grounded and ancient path that is upheld by the most peaceful of us.

And this was originally a thread for people who have experienced enlightenment as defined by them. Please can we steer it back to where it needs to be and hear some more experiences or definitions and the like.

Now why do you want to go and spoil everything? Huh? There is nothing quite like watching the enlightened knock the snot out of each other.

reply to post by nerbot
You know, I don't care for the word, "Enlightenment." How about understanding that it increases one's awareness somewhat? maybe 'illumination?' Doesn't sound so final, like something somebody has got to achieve. Whatever.

What you experienced is something that has noticably happened to many people, and certainly to very many, that I can tell, here on ATS. Lot's of untold tales, like yours. They come a-wonderin.'

Like this thread. It started out pretty lame, flat. Now, people are diggin' in, really wondering about what the other thinks, or might share.

No, whatever enlightenment is, it is as one said, the True Beginning of the Journey, the actual start-mark of the Self-Aware Journey Within.

Seems nobody can help one another -- each must grab a skyhook for themselves.

Anybody feel like that scene in Titanic is going on, only this time, it's the Ocean of Awareness? Brr...cold...and there's actual monsters in the Deep.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


The irony in it all is that we as a society with fluoridated water cannot be enlightened. Noone in the USA who drinks and cooks with the water, or Canada, can truly be enlightened. We can have glimpses of it, but its the water that the State provides that is stopping you from reaching your goal. I tell you this with all honesty. I do not know where else fluoridates their water, but I believe something like 98% of the EU rejects it.

Enlightenment causes riots because you see what is truly wrong with your government. I highly recommend glimpsing through this article www.theinfovault.net... as it will tell you where my position is.

If you want to truly be enlightened in a society that fluoridates your water, smoke pot.

Either way, eventually we all lose our balls. Enlightenment in this age is experienced by the children, and even still, fluoridated water has caused them too grow up too fast. I am the last of the ones who know the truth, debunk it, please.

And if you don't believe me, look at how cannabis (pot) is the ONLY thing that can prevent the onset of age related dementia and alzheimers (there are no cures except this).

Enlightenment means knowing the purpose in God and his plants, and knowing that for the last 70 or so years, it has been taken from you, and now they have you by the balls. Wake the f***k up.

If you want enlightenment, truly want it, you've got to first seek a way to awaken your pineal gland, from there, your path begins.

Originally posted by narin

Either way, eventually we all lose our balls. Enlightenment in this age is experienced by the children, and even still, fluoridated water has caused them too grow up too fast. I am the last of the ones who know the truth, debunk it, please.

I could never debunk that. My balls are already missing. You may be onto something there.

OMG AWAKEN YOUR PINEAL GLAND... WITHOUT IT YOU CANNOT SEEEEE THE TRUTHZZZZZ!!!!!

See how this newage stuff mutates? This is only the first generation of his ignorance... just imagine how far his children might take it?

reply to post by Wertdagf


Yeah but how can you stop someone who's willing enough for a certain cause or ideology? You can't stop them until they are ready to stop, and you can't really ever know when that will be for anyone. So you just have to be open, be knowledgeable, be free to discuss, and maybe interject your opinions on the matter, and if it opens someone's eyes...awesome! But it won't be stopped with force.

Peace is the path, remember.

reply to post by Wertdagf


I think in the context of this site, what you are arguing against is really one of it's strengths. How more perspectives to a situation can sometimes be brought up than anyone ever dreamed of lol.

But that's not really up to me, and your opinion is just another opinion. No problem but I hope you see what I mean? Yeah it's not up to me to define what the site is about, it's just my opinion.

And I just love the quote, don't know much about the guy.

Courtsey of Wikipedia

Enlightenment broadly means wisdom or understanding enabling clarity of perception. However, the English word covers two concepts which can be quite distinct: religious or spiritual enlightenment and secular or intellectual enlightenment. This can cause confusion, since those who claim intellectual enlightenment often reject spiritual concepts altogether.

In religious use, enlightenment is most closely associated with South and East Asian religious experience, being used to translate words such as (in Buddhism) bodhi or satori, or (in Hinduism) moksha. The concept does also have parallels in the Abrahamic religions (in the Kabbalah tradition in Judaism, in Christian mysticism, and in the Sufi tradition of Islam).

In secular use, the concept refers mainly to the European intellectual movement known as the Age of Enlightenment, also called the Age of Reason referring to philosophical developments related to scientific rationality in the 17th and 18th centuries.

-Ultimately if we have to ask if we have reached enlightenment or what is it. Then it is safe to say we are way off.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Alright dumbass I've had enough of your trolling. The pineal gland corresponds to the third eye. It's called the PINEal gland because its shaped like a pinecone. The largest court in the Vatican is called the Court of the Pinecone. Look even the pope's staff has a pinecone on it www.cuttingedge.org... There is an eye in front of a pyramid on the US dollar. (Third eye ascension perhaps). - It is located in the geometric center of the brain. This correlates to the location of the Great Pyramid in the center of the physical planet. Ancient Greeks believed the pineal gland to be our connection to the Realms of Thought. Rene Descartes called it the seat of the soul.

This gland is activated by Light, (enLIGHTenment) and it controls the various biorhythms of the body. It works in harmony with the hypothalamus gland which directs the body's thirst, hunger, sexual desire and the biological clock that determines our aging process.

When the pineal gland awakens one feels a pressure at the base of the brain. This pressure will often be experienced when connecting to higher frequency. A head injury can also activate the Third Eye - Pineal Gland. (When I was 17, I fell 2 storeys and suffered hairline fractures on my skull, this is when I started to have higher perceptions of reality, I believe it has sped things up quite abit).

In some lower vertebrates the Epiphysis Cerebri - Pineal Gland - has a well-developed eye-like structure; in others though not organized as an eye, if functions as a light receptor. In lower vertebrates, the pineal gland has an eye like structure and it functions as a light receptor and is considered by some to be the evolutionary forerunner of the modern eye.

The gland weighs little more than 0.1 gram. The gland is large in children and begins to shrink with the onset of puberty. It appears to play a major role in sexual development, hibernation in animals, metabolism, and seasonal breeding. In humans it affects circadian rhythms, sleep patterns (melatonin levels increase at night), and is implicated in seasonal affective disorder. The abundant melatonin levels in children is believed to inhibit sexual development. When puberty arrives, melatonin production is reduced.

The pineal gland secretes melanin during times of relaxation and visualization (SMOKE POT). As we are created by electromagnetic energy - and react to EM energy stimuli around us - so does the pineal gland.

Visualization exercises are the first step in directing the energies in our inner systems to activate the 'third eye'. The magnetic field is created around the pineal gland, by focusing the mind on the midway point between the pineal gland and the pituitary body. The creative imagination visualizes something, and the thought energy of the mind gives life and direction to this form.

'Third eye' development, imagination, and visualization are important ingredients in many methods to separate from the physical form. Intuition is also achieved through 'third eye' development. Knowledge and memory of the astral plane are not registered in full waking consciousness until the intuition becomes strong enough. Flashes of intuition come with increasing consistency as the 'third eye' as activated to a greater degree, through practice.

The 'third eye,' or 'eye of Siva,' the organ of spiritual vision, is intimately related to karma, as we become more spiritual in the natural course of evolution.

As human beings continue to evolve further out of matter, on the journey from spirit to matter back to spirit, the pineal gland will continue to rise from its state of age-long dormancy, bringing back to humanity astral capacities and spiritual abilities.


So Shut up, and go troll another forum. You have lost all welcome here.

I want to add: spiritual connection is not always as elusive and maybe as haphazard as I am hearing. To me, enlightenment comes from a spiritual connection.

I am a spiritual teacher also, although I don't subscribe to New Age in anyway. At least my experience doesn't resonate with New Age.

It is more humble IMO to understand that it is okay to ask for teachers to come into one's life. Often this teacher has the ability to help a person understand what they are experiencing and can assist the person to let-go. But at the same time...should be a temporary assistant.

It is a humbling experience but one that may be a requirement to share. It is not always something that is MEANT to be personal.

Most of my experiences and conversations are not about emotion or are ethereal, but are mostly logical conversations with a purpose in mind.

Originally posted by Sgoat74
-Ultimately if we have to ask if we have reached enlightenment or what is it. Then it is safe to say we are way off.

Because we could have just looked it up on wikipedia?

If I ask myself, "Am I happy?" Does that necessarily mean that I am sad?

If I ask myself, "Am I hungry?" Does that mean I am full?

It takes a special sort of introspection to ever ask these questions at a time it is not entirely prudent. Most people just go through life zombie-like when it comes to self examination at least.

reply to post by narin

When the pineal gland awakens one feels a pressure at the base of the brain. This pressure will often be experienced when connecting to higher frequency. A head injury can also activate the Third Eye - Pineal Gland. (When I was 17, I fell 2 storeys and suffered hairline fractures on my skull, this is when I started to have higher perceptions of reality, I believe it has sped things up quite abit).

so you falling off a building, getting a concussion, and having mild halucinations is reason for this to be taken as absolute truth? Isnt it funny when you poke and prod these people enough this is the kind of revelation they all recive.... Something outlandish that in no way relates to logic.

reply to post by Wertdagf


If you're still not convinced, then fine let me continue.

The pineal gland is a cone-shaped pea that sits on the roof of the 3rd ventricle of the brain, directly behind the root of the nose (3rd eye chakra) floating in a small lake of cerebrospinal fluid. It is our body's biological clock and has been called a window of the brain because, as with all mid-line structures bordering the 3rd and 4th ventricles of the brain, it doesn't have a blood-brain barrier. Instead it relies on a constant supply of blood via, considering its miniscule size, a particularly rich vascular network. It was considered for many years to be as redundant as our appendix but this theory is brought sharply into question because, in our body's infinite wisdom, the pineal gland has been supplied with the best blood, oxygen and nutrient mix available other than that received by our kidneys! It acts as a receiving mechanism capable of monitoring electro-magnetic fields and helping align bodies in space. With its central hormone, MELATONIN, the pineal not only regulates sleep/ wake cycles and the aging process, but also appears to act as the Mistress Gland (sofia)* orchestrating the body's entire endocrine system and thus, energetically speaking, the chakra system. I believe it is also responsible for shamanic states, visions, kundalini e.t.c.

The pineal gland is unique in that it sits alone in the brain whose other parts are paired. It is the first gland to be formed in the foetus and is distinguishable at 3 weeks. When our individual life force enters our foetal body at 7 weeks, the moment in which we become truly human, it passes through the pineal and triggers the first primordial flood of '___' ( N-dimethyltryptamine). Later, at birth, the pineal releases more '___'. '___' is also capable of mediating pivotal experiences of deep meditation, shamanic states of consciousness, psychoses, spiritual emergence and near death experiences.

The pineal gland begins to harden with calcified tissue starting at adolescence. These strange calcified deposits between 3-5 mm are called “brain sand”. There are asymmetrical crystals in the pineal gland that are ‘piezo-electric' - that is, they send out electronic voltage creating EM waves. Whenever a person is exposed to an EMF (electro-magnetic field) such as that of the earth the gland vibrates, sending out EM signals to the rest of the body. When the pineal gland is stimulated geomagnetically it produces alkaloids similar to plant psychedelics. Any strong change in the earth's EMF will produce a rush of psychedelics in our bodies enabling us to be more psychically active in shamanic states (earth/ land receptive). The pineal gland is effected by coherent EM fields and it changes its hormone production when exposed to EM at low levels. As the earth has the greatest effect of any force on our physiology it makes sense that the cells of our body and brain align with it. All life within the envelope of earth's vibrational influence attempts to match base-frequencies (entrainment) with that of the earth. To this end, each of our cells is constantly shifting patterns of energy to achieve harmonic resonance with the reference signals of our earth. Our bodies are truly amazing and they are intimately co-dependent with the earth and all its inhabitants. Our bodies are miraculous organs of phenomenal complexity and awesome ability. We are made up of multiple trillions of molecules, each vibrating with its own intelligence, all interlinked just as our universe is interlinked and interconnected. We reflect the whole. A picture may be beginning to emerge as to how we reach shamanic states through the wisdom of our body in tune with the earth.

When we experience a shamanic journey our pulse rate increases at the same time that our blood pressure drops. This is also what happens as the body is preparing to die. As the life-force leaves our body through the pineal gland, another flood of '___' is released. I believe that the initial stages of a shamanic journey replicate this near death experience and so triggers '___' release in the brain.

NOTE: Yagé or ayahuasca, a brew made from so called ‘death vine' which is used as a ‘plant teacher' by shaman to induce shamanic states, is virtually the chemical equivalent of '___' in humans.

I believe that shamanic work combined with breathwork brings large volumes of oxygen and life-force into the bloodstream and, because of its excellent blood-supply, the pineal gland receives much stimulation from the oxygen/ prana drenched blood causing it to resonate/ vibrate thereby stimulating the release of '___', our body's own powerful psychedelic. Lore has it that the pineal gland is the gateway into the soul. An energy vortex; a meeting place between psyche and soma, soul and body.

Ancient people knew of the importance of the pineal gland. Magician, Delores Ashcroft-Nowicki says that to the priests of Heliopolis, the embalmers of ancient Egypt (who were the forerunners of today's pathologists), the Star Chamber of Isis (the Holy of Holies) and the Halls of Anubis and Thoth were not just fanciful terms given to mythical locations but were actually places within the living brain where the priests and priestesses travelled to be taught by the gods.

The following is a description of The Star Chamber of Isis given by a priest of Isis undergoing the Rite of the Meeting of Mind with Mind:

“ The corridor is long and narrow and gleams like the inside of a shell drawn from the depths of the sea. The curtains that guard the entrance are of the softest gossamer, so fine that they seem like mist on a lake at dawn. As I pass through them I come into the presence of the Gods. The walls are of silver and give off a faint silver light that illuminates this holy place. Beneath my feet is the sandy silt of the sacred Nile, and all about me I hear the heartbeat of Isis . Behold, I dwell in the Star Chamber of the Goddess.”

The above sounds remarkably like the physical description of the pineal gland, which lies deep within the head, an important link to our deepest selves.

I do attribute my accident to hallucinations, however I also admit that I would not change my life in any way, from connecting the dots that have led me up to this point, I can now connect a dot ahead. And this isn't any of that new age crap.

Again, I don't know how many times I'm going to have to reiterate this, but the path to enlightenment starts with the recognition of the importance of your pineal gland. enLIGHTen it and you will work miracles. The governments today seek to stop this awakening because you can forever change history with this kind of power. It is that profound, it is your connection to the holy spirit. It works to protect your DNA. Do not ignore or undermine its potential on your quest.

I have seen the eyes of horus in the land in the summer. I have passed out from intense vibration into a psychedelic state of sleep. I have even communicated and resonated with the plants. Everything is frequency and vibration and light. Thats all it is.

I bear witness to the miracles of this transformational guide. My path was smoking pot, exercising, listening to trance and solfeggio frequencies and sitting outside among the plants at dusk all summer long. You must always ground yourself with Earth. This was my enlightenment and trust me it works.

I believe that one has multiple of these "enlightenments"

It all depends on you and what you consider to be something special that has just been realized by you.

Heck I felt enlightened every time I figure out some math concept.



I even felt enlightened when realizing that this "nothingness" in which everything is in is INFINITE. TIME is also infinite.

Enlightenment is simply being aware. We are all enlightened the moment we wake up from our dream. What the word enlightenment is labeling, on the other hand, this is something that is so infinite it is beyond comprehension. It is not a destination, rather it just is.

It is helpful to understand that we will never reach it, because it is unreachable. The more we learn, and understand, the less we know and comprehend. It is pi, and we are a travelling decimal.

It is possible to reach highest level of consciousness available to you, yet still not be what is labeled enlightenment. It is. And everything i just said is moot, because i am trying to explain it. They say God is indescribable. God is.

i believe it is sufficient to exist in a state where everything that occurs is divine. i know nothing, and the more i learn, the less i know. The path is endless, it surpasses eternity and infinity. Its possible to be on the circle, and even be the circle, but can you be the circle and be on the circle?

Originally posted by Sgoat74
-Ultimately if we have to ask if we have reached enlightenment or what is it. Then it is safe to say we are way off.



Because we could have just looked it up on wikipedia?

If I ask myself, "Am I happy?" Does that necessarily mean that I am sad?

If I ask myself, "Am I hungry?" Does that mean I am full?

-The fact you have to ask the questions most likley means that you don't know the answers. At the point of enlightment you know these answers without asking these questions.