Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

reply to post by Mr Green


I just stopped smoking and cut down on drinking too. Not really something I thought about either I was always one of the "It's my health and I like it" kind of people. Out of nowhere I got the drive to say "I'm giving this up" These days I no longer see life how I used to, now just getting up on a morning is magical and I am proud to be part of this fantastic world we live in. Before I was bored with life, always searching for that future goal, perfect job, good money, nice house, nice car… blah..blah..blah

Now I see past all of that and realize my heart is in none of those things, my heart is in living and sharing with other people without any expectations. Next week I am starting some voluntary work to help out the local community, something I wish I could of done sooner but time is irrelevant because now is all that matters. I always wanted to work voluntary and now the opportunity has arisen through some fantastic people I have met, people 2 years ago I would have had nothing to do with.

There seems to be a magical connection with every person I meet these days, no matter who these people are I realize they are still people and I am willing to help every last one of them. Not too long ago I used to judge these people and write them off as either “No good for me” or “No good for my friends” now judgment mind patterns are fading more and more each day, they still creep in at times but I avoid conflict by becoming a 3rd person looking in on situation. Eckhart Toll referred to this as playing the silent watcher.

Am I enlightened? Who knows?

What does enlightenment feel like anyway, what really matters to me is setting a good example so future generations can live a better life. I may never see the world I want to see, a world full of happiness, peace, and love but it doesn’t stop me trying to create that world for many generations to come; and I will keep trying until the day I die. I just hope others see the magical world I do, love and peace to you all.

IamNow.


[edit on 21-5-2009 by IamNow]

Originally posted by IamNow
reply to post by Mr Green

I just stopped smoking

and cut down on drinking too. Not really something I thought about either I was always one of the "It's my health and I like it" kind of people.

Thats what I was trying to get across from what the Dalai Lama says about such things that we especially in the West have become addicted to. Be it alcohol, smoking, staying out late, working long hours because we want rather than need the extra money...all things which we often find difficult to give up even though deep down we know they provide little happiness in the end. As you say we think well its my health I enjoy these things (drink, smoking , extra money) and I deserve them so Im not giving them up for anyone.

The Dalai Lama says we should just simply ask ourselves this "Will it bring me happiness?" Then when the answer truthfully can be seen as no, do we look upon these things as not things we will not give up but things that actually we see bring little happiness and they loose their addictive quality. This question brings clarity to life issues that we choose that often provide little enlightenment for us. We are able to make a conscious decision that will eventually bring us happiness and ultimatly closer to enlightenment more bearable.

There are lots of things we "like" to do but deep down they do not bring happiness and by openly asking this question and facing them I think helps enlightenment, so yes happiness is linked to enligtenment. A happy person, a truely happy person I believe will be closer to enlightenment.

Before I was bored with life, always searching for that future goal, perfect job, good money, nice house, nice car… blah..blah..blah

We are none of these things as you have found. These are what the ego seeks to fill its hole, it constantly needs us to search so we are taken further and further from our now. As long as we are always searching for a better house, car, job the ego has won. Its made us become asleep to what is really important in our lives, we have all we need now.

Not too long ago I used to judge these people and write them off as either “No good for me” or “No good for my friends” now judgment mind patterns are fading more and more each day, they still creep in at times but I avoid conflict by becoming a 3rd person looking in on situation. Eckhart Toll referred to this as playing the silent watcher.

Yes the silent watcher. Able to see things as an observer rather than become involved in the pain and drama of it all. This takes practise and Im guilty of slipping out of this, especially if Im tired or my patience is thin. Then within minutes I see what I allowed to happen and Im annoyed with myself.

Am I enlightened? Who knows?

well your an example to all .













[edit on 22-5-2009 by Mr Green]

reply to post by Mr Green


Several (up to 3x) in my lifetime I have experienced total knowledge of EVERYTHING on this planet and beyond all within 35 seconds like an instant download.

It fades from memory almost as quickly.

I have no recollection of the 'awe' which didn't scare me nor shock me at the time.

But I knew I knew things, if only for less than a minute...

things I guess I wasn't meant to know or it would have stuck.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by suzque66
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Several (up to 3x) in my lifetime I have experienced total knowledge of EVERYTHING on this planet and beyond all within 35 seconds like an instant download.

It fades from memory almost as quickly.

I have no recollection of the 'awe' which didn't scare me nor shock me at the time.

But I knew I knew things, if only for less than a minute...

things I guess I wasn't meant to know or it would have stuck.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by suzque66]

Ive had a couple of times where I have become very aware in a dream and realized I too had been told something which made total sense at the time and was beyond what we can know here. It felt like everything clicked into place...only to wake up and forget the whole thing. Yet even though I forget it the feeling of "Oh right I see now" stays with me so I know I must have been told something amazing. Thing is like you say if we cant remember maybe we wernt meant to learn about it, or maybe it goes deep into our being and becomes a knowing rather than a conscious memory?

Originally posted by suzque66
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Several (up to 3x) in my lifetime I have experienced total knowledge of EVERYTHING on this planet and beyond all within 35 seconds like an instant download.

It fades from memory almost as quickly.

I have no recollection of the 'awe' which didn't scare me nor shock me at the time.

But I knew I knew things, if only for less than a minute...

things I guess I wasn't meant to know or it would have stuck.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by suzque66]

I have that exact same experience just like a download but only once
and like you said it is so hard to hang onto. Incredible.

Aha, I knew I couldn't be the ONLY one.

It was while I was awake though, not dreaming or particularly concentrating on one topic, it just happened ..out of the blue.

It is gone as quickly as it came with the impression that there is 'something' to know but not 'know' right now. It has been many years since it last occured.

I didn't think about it much nor worry about recalling. But it was like knowing all of sudden what exactly whales are chattering, why every particle does this/that/the other and other marvels of nature. I don't believe it was much to do about humans but then again, who knows.

If it were to happen again, I hope I am more aware to ask questions and stay more alert in my memories of it.

edit: maybe mine was about nature because that is my future 'duty' of interest and human interactions would be left to someone else as their 'occupation'. Perhaps we all have a specific duty to fullful in the future?

[edit on 22-5-2009 by suzque66]

reply to post by suzque66


I was actually watching television and it was an instant download of the Alloness. I felt a oneness that erased any seperation, it was miraculous and awesome about a year or so ago but so hard to recall that feeling. Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by cindymars
reply to post by suzque66

 

I was actually watching television and it was an instant download of the Alloness. I felt a oneness that erased any seperation, it was miraculous and awesome about a year or so ago but so hard to recall that feeling. Thanks for sharing.

You know, now that I think of it, I was watching tv each time it happened to me. hmmm

They say tv makes your mind go blank, so I wasn't in deep thought about the show, just kinda of brain dead at the time. Not concentrating on any particular thing on there, as I said.

I wonder if the frequency waves (sound or light) from the tv sets it off somehow?? No clue what show it was. One time was in the 70's (during the Rich Man, Poor Man series or a commercial), once in the 80's and last time maybe in 91.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by suzque66]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Suffering is what brings about the need to understand. If you ran away from your problems your whole life youd probobly be a buncha frail old talking heads on a crumbling temple in the mountains. Next time the dali brings up freeing tibet tell him to practice that non-attachment he preaches to much. When was the last time they said anything that made a differance anyway? What good is your message if the only people who understand it are you malnourised and halucinating flock? Can they be sure they understand anything at all?

He accepts suffering is part of life, it is the way you deal with it that matters. he says we are all in a Samsara., even the people of Tibet. This is a state of existance that is characterized by suffering. All being are in this state, which is due to karmic debt from past actions and negative mind thoughts. The removal from this state of suffering can only be done when we achieve a mind free of all negative tendencies. Maybe this state is enlightenment which would answer stormdancer777 posts about what is the point to enligtenment. The point is that slowly we all work through our negative mind set and become liberated from suffering maybe.

He looks upon suffering as something we must accept as part of living, we must face up to it and take it head on without negativity. If you accept suffering as part of your existance you become more tolerant of it, and less likely to become overwhelmed by it. Instead of saying "Oh this is terrible why is this happening to me" you are more likely to say " I accept this suffering as part of my life and everybody else life on this planet, I am no more immune from it than the next person." This attitude shows you are not alone in your suffering and should not feel sorry for yourself in any way or become negative about it.

He states there are three causes to human suffering. these are ignorance, craving and hatred. These are the three poisons of the mind. We should try and eliminate these from our daily life as much as possible to aid in the lessening of our suffering. This serves as a hope to people that they can find freedom from suffering , rather than make it as a no hope situation. By looking upon it like this it takes it into a positve realm rather than an accepting negative state that nothing can ever be done about human suffering.

So at no point does he preech we should run away from our suffering and just live in temples on hill tops. He teaches us to accept it .



[edit on 23-5-2009 by Mr Green]

reply to post by Mr Green


Well said Mr. Green. I think you explained the Dali Lamas message very well. In no way is he saying we should run away from everything that challenges us. I think a big part of it is us creating our own suffering as well. We label situations as good and bad all the time rather tan accepting them for what they are.

Something we label as 'bad', will make us suffer whenever we encounter it again. Such as your boss, you say he is a bad man then you are bound to suffer in your interactions with your boss. That is mind created suffering.

Accept what is and know that there is a lesson to be learned from everything and we can drastically reduce suffering.

This all reminds me of a great Frank Zappa song called "Cosmic Debris"

The mystery man came over
And he said "I'm outta sight!"
He said for a nominal service charge
I could reach nirvana tonight
If I was ready, willing and able
To pay him his regular fee
He would drop all the rest of
His pressing affairs and devote
His attention to me

But I said "Look here brother
who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Look here brother, don't waste your time on me"

The mystery man got nervous
And he fidget around a bit
He reached in the pocket of his mystery robe
And he whipped out a shaving kit
Now I thought it was a razor
And a can of foaming goo
But he told me right then when the top popped open
There was nothin' his box won't do
With the oil of Aphrodite, and the dust of the Grand Wazoo
He said "You might not believe this, little fella
But it'll cure your asthma too"

And I said "Look here brother
Who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now what kind of a guru are you, anyway?
Look here brother, don't waste your time on me"
*(Don't waste your time)*

"I've got troubles of my own", I said
"And you can't help me out
So, take your meditations and your preparations
And ram it up your snout!"
"But I got the crystal ball", he said
And held it to the ligh
So I snatched it, all away from him
And I showed him how to do it right

I wrapped a newspaper 'round my head
So I looked like I was deep
I said some mumbo-jumbo, then
I told him he was going to sleep
I robbed his rings and pocketwatch
And everything else I found
I had that sucker hypnotized
He couldn't even make a sound
I proceeded to tell him his future, then
As long as he was hanging around
I said "The price of meat has just gone up
And your old lady has just gone down!"

And I said "Look here brother-who you
Jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Don't you know, you could make more money as a butcher?
So, don't waste your time on me"
Don't waste it, don't waste your time on me
*(Shante)*

LOL you gotta love FZ! That guy knew how to tell it like it is...

[edit on 23-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]

Originally posted by suzque66
reply to post by Mr Green

Several (up to 3x) in my lifetime I have experienced total knowledge of EVERYTHING on this planet and beyond all within 35 seconds like an instant download.

I want one of these. How do you get them can you say?

Is this instant enlightenment do you find you know everything before you forget do you know all there is?

How can a mind take that sort of information without getting over loaded sounds too much. I still want one.

reply to post by Venus014


Aparantly the way to alleviate human suffering is not to want!!
By not wanting you open up all roads without fear of the losses.
I think thats a good lesson.

Originally posted by Taxi4Time
reply to post by Venus014

 

Aparantly the way to alleviate human suffering is not to want!!
By not wanting you open up all roads without fear of the losses.
I think thats a good lesson.

Ok you have a good point there. I dont want one but it would be nice.

enlightenment; in a broad and less spiritual sounding way, is understanding the physics of reality...btw that's a ton of factors to grasp, and let soak in...

Originally posted by prplurkl
enlightenment; in a broad and less spiritual sounding way, is understanding the physics of reality...btw that's a ton of factors to grasp, and let soak in...

Understanding the physics of reality. I guess thats one way to look at it yes but do we really need to understand this to reach enlightenment.

Is the definition of enlightenment understanding the science of our reality? Each reality may not have the same laws. For me becoming more enlightened doesnt seem to involve revising lots of equations , figures and factors. How else can we understand the physics of reality without studying lots of scientific equations? Its becoming more knowlegable but is it becoming more enlightened?

Originally posted by prplurkl
enlightenment; in a broad and less spiritual sounding way, is understanding the physics of reality...btw that's a ton of factors to grasp, and let soak in...

I dont reckon science has much at all to do with enlightenment how can it when remote uneducated people in mountain villages seem to reach it more than us so called educated scientific west. many of them prob whont actually know any of physics of reality I reckon not
people were enlightened before science and physics just a thought

BUMP

I had to bump this, because these things are discussed over and over.

It's a funny question. Real "Enlightenment" is true salvation. It is when the spirit, in full consciousness, has returned to the purely spiritual regions. Such a state can not be achieved by someone without realizing it. It is true "Realization". It is far beyond the typical "Self Realization" that can have many meanings and usually amounts to nothing more than a person recognizing the existence of their spirit. To truly be enlightened is completely impossible without the assistance of a true Spiritual Guide of the highest order. We are at the bottom of the creation. It's like being buried under thousands of miles of thick tar and claiming that no assistance is need to get to the top. In a lifetime, the deluded imaging their have been successful and have at best raised themselves and inch and at worst and more likely have sunken far deeper into the tar pit.

Until the spirit reaches home (the Purely Spiritual Division) they are under the sway of mind/ego and illusion and always run the risk of being fooled. Most of the highest commonly known spiritual great have fallen time and again. The old practices like pranayam can not really be performed today and do not lead to real salvation. They only lead to a high region, a state of delusion about that has been achieved and a sure and certain descent. A high region may be obtained for the after life, but being within matter, it will not endure and rebirth and the toss of the dice will repeat again and again.

reply to post by Mr Green


Buddha's enlightenment is defined as the cessation of all sufferring i.e. the cessation of all sensations and feeling. This is beyond all the spiritual realms and universes, it goes straight back to the Source Creator. When one experiences sensation then one becomes attached to those sensations, and those attachments cause suffering. For it is said by the sages that the greatest feeling and stage of all is the place of no feeling (nirvana).