Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

reply to post by Mr Green


Yea, am aware. It can be painful,

reply to post by psycho81


You want to hope for something better than what you have right now, don't
you? Otherwise you wouldn't be hoping.

Good read, thank you,

I was thinking, in some ways the quest for enlightenment can be a very selfish journey.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by psycho81

 

I was thinking, in some ways the quest for enlightenment can be a very selfish journey.

100% agree with this statement. If your not careful you can forget the needs of those around you, become self obsessed on your own personal journey of discovery. Spend hours reading books, learning new meditation techniques that may just give you that extra little push you need to see beyond.

This is why I asked if enligtenment is even possible fully in these times. We have so much else going on around us to distract us, how can we possibly reach the point of total enligtenment and not make it a selfish journey. If your not careful it becomes all about YOU. Your every thought is about YOUR self discovery, YOUR progress and thoughts. Does this not often divert our attention to whats really going on in our lives in the now? Or do we need to leave our old ideas of our old life behind to totally embrace enlightenment, I mean we surely must become different people once we are enlightened? We can NOT be the same person we were before...can we?

reply to post by Mr Green


Very thought provoking MrGreen ,

When i watch the gurus of self, I understand why Jesus hung out with the drunkards and prostitutes.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Mr Green

 

When i watch the gurus of self, I understand why Jesus hung out with the drunkards and prostitutes.

Exactly the gurus of self are very self based. But is it a necessity to give your self to totally becoming enligtened. I mean was not Jesus enligtened the moment he was born so he had no need of spending time trying to find it. Us lesser mortals need to seek it, I dont think its something that just comes to a person without even changing the way they think , and to change the way you think you need to search out other ideas, other possibilites, which of course is a journey of self discovery. Journeys of self discovery are just that, all about the self

reply to post by Mr Green


I mean was not Jesus enligtened the moment he was born so he had no need of spending time trying to find it.

Let me say, my husband, who I lovingly refer to as, the great redneck buddha,

Is the most enlightened unenlightened person I know, His answers are always simple and to the point, a no nonsense approach to life, as viewed by one not searching, just living it.

Then there is me, who has studied everything, only to find, the great redneck buddha had all the answers



Let me go ask him.

Originally posted by Mr Green
Enlightenment seems to be something many search for but what exactly is it and is it the same for everyone?

Hi,
Kinda hard for anyone to put this subject into words in person at times, let alone on the internet, hehe.

I teach folks spiritually, but there's a bit of a pardox with your above quote. :-) . Sure, folks do search for enlightenment, thing is, if they stopped searching, and instead simply done the practices, solely for the joy of practicing, things are much more easier. This mayeb doesn't make sense initially, but...

Enlightenment will come when it is right for a person. That time may never be though. So, what is a person doing? Swapping one 'Rat Race' for another, :-). Endlessly searching for something possibly forever ellusive.

It's a spiritual open 'secret', to just let come whatever may, and enjoy the process in the interim.

How do we know when we've found it, is it like an electric light bulb moment that you just know or is it a slow journey that you eventually arrive at?

within spiritual practices, and indeed this can occur at any time in life, a person may be fortunate to expeirience glimpses of the true nature of things. This is quite common.

The more long term, lasting awareness isn't so. And for sure, you might know it when it comes, i'd also suggest a person might be very humble at this time, and portray themselves as simply having an experience, in which they wish to share. IMO, Eckhart tolle is an example.

It is a feeling of oneness and to not feel seperated from our divine creator.

This is true. There's more also though, :-) . Going beyond a feeling of oneness, it is a deep knowing, deep understanding that not only are we all connected, all is actually one.

Academically, things like quantum physics also help with this. Science now realises, that between you & I there is not simply air. There is another substance, measured by light. Dark Matter comes to mind. We literally are all connected. This is why folks like myself, a Reiki teacher, can treat a person 8000 mile away.

..Is is enligtenment or just a moment of hightened awarness?

It could be either. Or both. It can vary from glimpses, to Tolle, to Buddha, in degrees.

Can we even hold onto this awarness in our fast busy world?

We should never try to 'hold' onto ,or replicate these little expereinces, :-). They will be harder to coem by. They are little presents along the way, let them come & go as they please. Just BE. :-) .

If enlightenment is achieved is it possible to allow it to co exist with our self that has to deal with the pressures of life in the 21st century?

How easy is it for someone to feel spiritual in a Zen monastery? Easier than if they were, say, in prison perhaps. Our ego makes us think things are difficult. In fact, our modern times ARE our spiritual practices.

So what is enlightenment to you, have you achieved it and if so how did you achieve it?

Usually, a person won't say they are enlightened. They are humble.

Perhaps to me, it is that each one of us is a reflection of the larger Divine. The collective creative force. Knowing this, experiencing this, how could i ever feel anythign but love for all creation. I am you. You am I. We are all each othersbrothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters. We are divine.

Then again, i'm only going by my own small glimpses. I'm not enlightened at all. :-) .

Excellant questions freind!

Much love
Wayne

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

reply to post by reiki


Hi Reik,i I too am a Reiki practitoner,

I think it all boils down to,

Viewing Every aspect of life is a spiritual journey.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by reiki

 

Hi Reik,i I too am a Reiki practitoner,

I think it all boils down to,

Viewing Every aspect of life is a spiritual journey.

hiya!
Totally agree with you. Even going to the shop for a paper is spiritual, if done in the right way. I suspect, you know this already, but for others beneift..

Mindfulness. Very prominate in buddhism, but very valuable for anyone on a spiritual path. when i make a cup of tea, i'm solely making the tea. when i prepare dinner, i'm solely preparing dinner. no thoughts elswhere (at least that's the idea, hehe), this is using every single aspect of our daily lives in a spiritual way, training ourselves in mindfullness.

Just a practical example, :-) .

how long you been doing Reiki btw?

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

Enlightenment is fully understanding causality.

When you understand that there is always logic behind every action you can then see that someone else's behavior isnt unfathomable... that if you have lived in their place in reality that you would be just as they are.

In that one undertanding alone... you are no longer one person but 2.

Then you could imagine how casuality shapes societys and governments.... religions.

In that understanding you are now hundreds of thousands of experainces rolled into one indivudial.

How can you not love somone when you understand the causality of their lives? How could you ignore how quickly somones understanding of reality can change with a single sentance?






[edit on 11-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

reply to post by reiki


You just saved me a typing out a long post

Brilliant post though

MG

I don't see enligtenment as selfish it's adding to the collective conscience. I understand how it can become selfish though

I don't even know what enlightenment is supposed to mean. I believe it is a word created by the uninitiated to try describing how some may seem who understand. They seem like their heads are justa bit taller above the bush than everyone else. Well I guess whyen it is your time to become enlightened, you will. If you were not meant to know, you won't know... and I personally am jealous of anyone who can ask for enlightenment stilll.
How that ignorance would make me sleep better at night? How it would make me undisturbed by normally unassuming floral or mandala designs on wallpaper?

Enlightenment is seeing everything and coming back with at least some mental and emotional faculties left. Enlightenment is coming back and telling people who wish to hear to know certain things and ignore other things if you wish to have a joyful and meaningful life. Enlightenment is telling those fools who assume it's like the Matrix or some Hollywood or media archetype that they should skat and stop asking so many questions.

Enlightenment is something so beautifully horrifying that you'll forever question even the smallest particle around you... but even though you question, you are hoping to not recieve an answer. You are hoping to just assume that it is there, therefore it exists.

Enlightenment is the shedding of reason and purpose to everything. Enlightenment is the destroyer of self.
Enlightenment is the scariest and most lonesome thing you'll ever experience.

I say be careful what you wish for, unless you have a lot of support from people who understand... but you've spent your life surrounding yourself with people whom you have up until the peak of your enlightenment experience assumed that they understood. To your horror, often times you'll wake up completely surrounded by these strange new people who you thought you knew, but when confronted with truth, they WILL turn on you... because people think they want the ultimate enlightenment experience, but I'm here to say "No you don't. You just want a better illusion."

I'd reccomend any meditation course dealing with light workers or indigo children. You'll delude yourself enough to be entertained, hopefully.

reply to post by dunwichwitch

I don't even know what enlightenment is supposed to mean

You seem pretty sure in the list you provided.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
Enlightenment is the scariest and most lonesome thing you'll ever experience.

I have never, ever heard anyone say anything like that before. Ever. Well not in the context of the veil lifting.

Scary? Lonesome? Anyone else ever experienced anything like that?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Sonya610]

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Hiya,
You've quite different views than i, to be expected, and respected, for sure. :-) .

You're portraying a quite fearful expereince, what exactly is making you say this? Or what has happened for you to know this?

Your post was quite powerful, and scary, but imo little opinion, Enlightenment , it is the culmination of our potential, to be embraced.

I'm no way enlightened, merely had little experiences, as most on a spiritual path have. My own expereince does lead me to feel that within th eexperience of Enlightenment, we realise we are all one. There is many classic textz, and past spiritual masters that agree on this, :-) . If this is the case, no way could it be a lonely experience, as you suggest. for if a person realises all are one, that person is not on their one, but is one. To be lonely is another part of the ego, of seperation. And this doesn't equate to past expereinces of Masters, and so on, :-).

We as humans reach full potential, as many past Masters have, by experiencing enlightenment. It's not something to be avoided, or fearful of. If we feel we have, or should have a fear of it, that make sus incredibly lonely, etc, we will never expereince it. And likely never try.

If ever i lose my self, I will not be lonely. As there will be no 'I'. :-) .

Take care
Wayne



[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

Originally posted by psycho81
reply to post by reiki

 

I don't see enligtenment as selfish it's adding to the collective conscience. I understand how it can become selfish though

No enligtenment itself is not selfish, not in the slightest it does as you say add to the collective consciousness, it is the PATH to enligtenment that can become a selfish one. Ive become aware of this recently, Ive spent FAR too much time on my journey of self discovery and now I think its time to actually stop trying. Who knows I may actually find myself by not trying and becoming so self obsessed..

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Mr Green]

reply to post by reiki


Not sure if you have looked up any of Anthony De Mello's work if not you will find it very useful indeed. If you like Eckhart Tolle then you will love Anthony De Mello; I posted the videos in this thread. Hope you find his work as useful as I have Anthony De Mello

reply to post by psycho81


Cheers bro! I'm not familiar with his stuff, will check it out shortly, many thanks, :-) .

take care
Wayne

reply to post by Mr Green


How very true that is MG, I myself fell into this trap and its a tough position to get out of.

Originally posted by reiki

Originally posted by Mr Green


It's a spiritual open 'secret', to just let come whatever may, and enjoy the process in the interim.


within spiritual practices, and indeed this can occur at any time in life, a person may be fortunate to expeirience glimpses of the true nature of things. This is quite common.


We should never try to 'hold' onto ,or replicate these little expereinces, :-). They will be harder to coem by. They are little presents along the way, let them come & go as they please. Just BE. :-) .



[edit on 11-1-2009 by reiki]

REPLY TO reiki:-

Hi

Thanks for an excellent post, very helpful.

It is good that you say these little experiences of enligtenment we are given are presents and we should not try to hold onto them and replicate them. We should just let them come and go as they wish and inbetween just simply be. I have been guilty of this, Ive had very aware moments, moments of clarity, love and peace, a total at oneness but then Ive chased after these tiny moments trying to hold on to them and recapture them. This is not ideal as moments like this can not be replicated or held on to.

I was told a while back by a friend I asked advice about this, I asked him What do I do? What am I meant to do as I become more aware? His answer was very short and to the point, he said You need do nothing, just simply be. At the time I thought what a crazy answer, how can I just simply be? I must have to do something with this awarness, surely?? Now I see we must simply be, we cant be anything else. To even try to do anything else is as you say unobtainable and will end in constantly trying to chase these moments and recreate them.

Thanks again for a very well informed post.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Mr Green]