Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

Originally posted by killacaboose
I've spent the last year of my life in Iraq but with what little time I've had to myself I've spent studying budism and enlightenment. If you belive in reincarnation then your probably aware that one will not achive enlightenment within his first human life (not to say this is yours)

Yes but other Buddhist teachings say an evil and corrupt person can reach enlightenment in the same lifetime. I do not believe there are any rules.

Thanks for your service to our country.

I believe the path to enligtenment is blocked in our dimension at every corner by lower entities and beings. Be it by flouride in our water, additives in our food, waves sent through our electronic devices. Many things are sent out to stop us seeing what really is, however some break through this and still are able to see.

What if once we get to the other side, they have managed to put further blocks in. Its like for the ones they've failed to stop here they now need to put in another level of camouflage in. I only say this because I feel when I leave my body some times it feels like a matrix, it never felt like this before. It feels like its a tape playing before my eyes, false images and even false music, almost like its lift music. Heavenly angelic music but somehow its not real, its too angelic, too perfect.

What if as another level of defense they have now put in some protection to stop those that see beyond actually seeing anymore?

Can this actually happen? Can enlightenment be interferred with.

reply to post by Mr Green


There are always "what ifs". And I agree with Sonya, there are no rules clearly set for life.

reply to post by cancerian42
Yes, the Archetypes I am speaking of are Truth, they are contained within The WORD. Why would the ARC, The Circle, The Triangle, The Square, lie to Itself? It doesn't, and they Don't. Lying comes much lower on the scale of creation, at the point that is called the Reflection of the Real, or, Existence in the Atomic Matter State: This is the Condition known as the Inverted Expression of Being, or the experience of 'movement.' I know, this is difficult to cross-communicate, and I apologize for this: we can't just exchange awareness, but we can try to relate.

There are the Jungian archetypes, which express not just our awareness of absolute-type Archetypes, but also lower (elemental) expressions: these I wouldn't trust with my eyes open (they are operating from lower dimensionality).

Could I 'explain' these higher Archetypes? Hmm, it is simple, and it is complex. First, they are Alive. Honest! So is Air, Fire, Water, Earth, Ether. Now I've went off into the metaphysical realms, yes? Sorry: you have to relate to what I'm conveying: We and everything elese are 'breakdowns' of the interactions of these Living Archetypes. They are: All part of the Perfect Form in Combination, called The WORD.

Can I show you a diagram? No, ATS takes copyright, and I've determined not to do this anymore. However, I realize that this doesn't sound fair, but it is necessary. I can say I experienced cosmic consciousness, and you can believe or disbelieve. You may believe at 17 I was busy listening to my classical music, doing my work, and minding my own business (sort of!). It came form nowhere. I have heard a radio show where a girl on the west coast came on and said she'd had the exact same experience when she was 17 (what is it with 17? anything?), and she said she was my current age! The difference was I went to work on it: she remained with years of confusion (admitted) over not understanding it. I felt so validated! I did feel a pang of regret, that I never got a chance to thank her, for her spoken statements thrilled me.

Here you say:
"You say you experienced cosmic consciousness when you were 17, and that very few others have "reference" to verify such claims in their own minds. That's very wordy, would you mind explaining this a little more?"

What I actually said was this:
"...however, too few people have any reference ..."

I said, "too FEW..," and this is my experience. There is another on here who described the experience to a "T," and I presume quite a few others on these sites, and similar sites, and lots that don't even use computers. But "too few" is not such a grand number that everybody is talking about it. I did state in one post when I began on the forums, that I felt a little trepidation because of my 'inadequate' awareness level...Find out, I'm at least amoung some of the more elite honest experiencers, from what I can tell. Should I never mention it? Is it bragging to share these Reality experiences?

Me, I'm not jealous, and don't consider myself a hypocrite. What fault I do have, is I'm aggressive (dogs never like me). It is a character flaw that I've been unable to entirely remove. Some screwed-up genetics; but I also am under the Sag-Jupiter sign, and this sign dictates guidance and justice. I don't just sit there when people attack me: some people are cruel for no reason (well, pleasure in cruelty is real, yes). This is no reason not to attempt to speak to a few good souls. These people are actually present on these sites. Some even seem 'bad,' but they are often not.

And by way of note: I find I get and have received far more from other people who post on these sites, then I can ever give. I feel illuminated by many of the people I encounter in this strange electro-hyperspace; it helps me grow, expand. I try to return the favor.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by SS,Naga]

S+F

Good Thread Mr Green thank you, and Thank you all who have added, I have enjoyed and grown by reading your experiences and perspectives.

Originally posted by Mr Green
I believe the path to enligtenment is blocked in our dimension at every corner by lower entities and beings.

Oh that's the entire Nutshell issue and the True Maya.

How we like to look out-there for the answers and blame.

Or rather our Ego creates an Illusion of separateness and blame out-there.

Our EGO passions and desires, and illusion is the only true wall, anything like fluoride is just the cement on extra brick on top.

Me - You

Us - Them

Love - Hate

Enlightened - Not So

Again just illusions. Enlightenment or the experience of it is experienced in minds just like ours, In Bodies Just like ours, with sinners as bad as us.

Milarepa is one of Tibet's and the worlds greatest Saints/Yogi's, a whole school of Buddhism is founded due to him (and to some extent his Guru, and his gurus teacher too).

He was a Black magician for many years, killing many people in revenge, destroying crops. He became enlightened in that same lifetime.

Habit of perspective and breaking the Ego of you and me and that and this.

The quantum Flux, non Locality seeing just that, the Fractal, or as jesus said in one of his repressed gospels...Thomas.

If you want to find me, lift a stone.

Break a piece of wood I am there.

Seeing yourself as a separate drop, as SkyF mentions when.....

Where is the drop in the Ocean?

There is no separate drop, we are all Home now.
We are in the universe, it is everything we see and experience, good and Bad. We are God and all that God was is and can be. It is here now, you and me but without the you and me.

I am not a drop separate, but our perception makes it seems so, we are the ocean.

We are enlightenment.

We are god.

What is out there in our experience is so, as a molecule of the Ocean by the beach in the UK now full of energy in a storm thrashing to and throw like anger, is not in a different ocean to the one in warm, calm and peace in the shallow waters of lagoon.

They are the Ocean within it and make it up, you cannot ever take out the "Ocean-ness" from them, no more than we can take out the "Universe-ness" or "Enlightenment-ness" or "allthat is-ness" or "God-Ness" from us.

I am god looking at god in you. Thats all it is Perspective

Suziki the great Japanese Buddhist Master asked what it was like being enlightened he said.

Oh Just the same but about 2 inches of the floor

Its where you look from and perspective that is all. But as this wonderful universal Mind of you and me, seems to experience itself from many different points of view, like the cells in your eyes, are you but experience that part of god you differently from your tongue cells, which are god also!

Don't fret and worry about, demons, entities, persecutors or anything else, a hindrance they may be, but ultimately it is a mirror too, come home, your mind and break the ego is as simple as it is. Well in words anyhow lol.

When no separation exists in your experience, when you love your brother as yourself, when you feel the pain in others and joy to, when you get on your knees and pray and serve, but not to a seperate God, but to wish for the best for all living beings, and respecting all of your true self like nature, couldnt litter, as its like stopping garbage on your own body, and cant get angry at anyone, as you would get be getting angry at yourself...this last bit is the MOST important, you cant get angry as you see no seperation to those you hurt and you, and you LOVE YOURSELF, your bit of god as much as the god you experience all around you out there then you are there.

So just stopping yourself as a drop, and open up to the current of the Ocean it is taking you somewhere and you cant ever really not be a part of it.

There is an interesting story I like in Buddhism.. it contains the Dead dog story, found in a few teachings around different masters:

According to the Tibetan tradition, Asanga was born in Purusapura, snipleft the monastery to practice the Arya Maitreya Sadhana in a cave at the foot of a mountain. For three years, not a single good sign appeared, and he became depressed and decided to leave his retreat. Emerging from his cave he noticed a bird’s nest by the mountain where the rock had become worn just by the brushing of the bird’s wing as it flew back and forth. Realizing his perseverance was weak, he returned to his cave to practice. For three more years he meditated, but again not a single good sign appeared. He became discouraged and left again. This time he saw a rock beside the road that was slowly disintegrating because of the trickle of single drops of water. Inspired by this, he returned and practiced another three years.

When again no signs appeared, he left his retreat a third time. He encountered an old man who was rubbing a piece of iron with a smooth cotton cloth. “I am just finishing this needle,” the man said to Asanga. “I have already made those over there” and pointed to small pile of needles lying nearby. Asanga thought, “If such effort is put into a mundane task such as this, my effort so far has been merely a trifle.”
snip
He returned and meditated for another three years. Although he had by now meditated for 12 years on Maitreya, he still had no signs of favor.
snip
He became extremely despondent and walked away from his cave.
snip

After awhile he came across a half-dead dog lying beside the road, infested with maggots, crying out in pain. Asanga thought, “This dog will die if these worms are not removed, but if I try to lift them out with my hand, I will crush them.” So using his tongue so as not to hurt them, and cutting off some of his own flesh for them to live in, he bent down to remove them. At that moment the dog vanished and Maitreya appeared, showering cascades of light in all directions.

Asanga Institute

He lost all idea of this and that, dog and me, his compassion and perspective of being in all, feeling for the dog and maggots as if it was himself broke that illusion.

He was in that moment God acting as God Love and Compassion, towards God.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Ps 9 lbs of cannabis oil would have made him very selfist and eat his own flesh or the worms lol... only joking.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by MischeviousElf]

Originally posted by SS,Naga
reply to post by cancerian42

 

Yes, the Archetypes I am speaking of are Truth, they are contained within The WORD. Why would the ARC, The Circle, The Triangle, The Square, lie to Itself? It doesn't, and they Don't. Lying comes much lower on the scale of creation, at the point that is called the Reflection of the Real, or, Existence in the Atomic Matter State: This is the Condition known as the Inverted Expression of Being, or the experience of 'movement.' I know, this is difficult to cross-communicate, and I apologize for this: we can't just exchange awareness, but we can try to relate.

I am having a very difficult time relating to this. Once again, what is up with the shapes? I need some more explanation. You're using terms that I have never even heard of. I won't just believe what you say is true or not, but I do have an open mind if that's any consolation for you.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


that was a good explanation.

Id say that the more perspectives you understand the more of the ocean you will become.

You dont have to stay a single drop.

reply to post by cancerian42

I will have to admit defeat, then, cancerian42. I have been unable to convey the Truth of the Living Archetypes to anyone except my wife, so far: it requires a book, or direct teaching. I thank you for your kind attention!

To be enlightened you must love truth. In the Bible, Jesus said that He is truth (John 14:6). Thus, to be enlightened, you must love Jesus.

Very simple, isn't it?

Why wouldn't you love Jesus anyway? He definitely loves you. To find out more go to www.godlovestheworld.com...

Wishing much enlightenment, truth, and love to all ATS posters and readers.

God bless.

reply to post by Mr Green
Strangely, don Juan conveyed exactly this in some of his statements.

I must admit, few seem privy to this.

I get a laugh out of people who speak of 'just forget all the bad stuff,' it's all in Good hands. Yeah, they actually say this. Don't sweat it! Have a lemon tea, you'll be back in the body next life, and can think about it a little more, then.

Jokesters. I can tell you right now, if you think a little illumination is going to transmute you into Pure Energy, beyond the 'recylcing of light' level, you got another think coming.

You are not wrong, I know this direct from a communication from the SoulSelf. I woke up one morning, and the energy flowing through my crown was incredible (I normally don't experience this in the morning): I had to get ready for work, but geometric energy formations were pouring through me, and it was completely understood. The Higher Self does not tend to wait for you to be in a good moment, It can be demanding. I was dismayed, as I was late: the information flowed, as I brushed my teeth and got myself ready. It kept coming (!), and I understood everything that was entering into me (I have achieved this: not everyone can do it, especially not to begin with: comprehension of this information). It conveyed in no mild manner what the set-up was surrounding Earth and the Solar System.

As to what it was, I would be laughed off the planet if I told what it conveyed.

But this is a thread about enlightenment, and it is best to keep on track: enlightenment is actually being blocked. Why? The Greater the Light, the Greater the Resistence. You will find people who laugh at this, but the Battle of Existence between the Two Great Archetypes (Mother & Father Consciousness & Awareness) goes on unabated*: when it ends, this universe-set will blink off.
(*Unabated: Sustaining an original intensity or maintaining full force with no decrease.)

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

Oh that's the entire Nutshell issue and the True Maya.

How we like to look out-there for the answers and blame.

Or rather our Ego creates an Illusion of separateness and blame out-there.

I agree. Or, the Ego assumes that it must convince "others" of some truth. (Which is another Ego created hindrance)

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Our EGO passions and desires, and illusion is the only true wall, anything like fluoride is just the cement on extra brick on top.

Me - You

Us - Them

Love - Hate

Enlightened - Not So

Again, if I understand correctly your point, I agree. If you think there is a hindrance, or something in your way, the only thing it can be is your own mind/ego. The idea of separateness or division itself.
We talk of Oneness, or non-duality, but then the next assumption we espouse demonstrates a belief in duality. "Oneness" of lack of division cannot merely be a word or concept memorized and then regurgitated, it has to be "seen" (not necessarily with the eyes) or it becomes part of the illusion itself. The ego will grab the concept and then twist it just enough to maintain itself as a separate "thing."

In such a non-divided thing could there be a battle between light and dark? Me and you? Life and death? Could any of those divisive concepts have any real meaning? Who could there be to convince? To battle? To overcome? Even the idea of separateness itself, the divider, isnt to be "overcome" it is merely to be seen. If you see it clearly for what it is, illusion, there is no need to destroy even it. Once you shine the light of awareness on a shadow, it, like all shadows, simply ceases to be. Its not destroyed, it never "was" in any real sense. It was simply "that which is outside of the light of awareness."

Originally posted by MischeviousElf

I am god looking at god in you. Thats all it is Perspective

Again, agreed. Or, god talking to god. Or god yelling at god, as the case may be. God filtered through the ego is a mad god, tearing out its own eyes, trying to obliterate itself.

Very nice post.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Wertdagf


Id say that the more perspectives you understand the more of the ocean you will become.

You dont have to stay a single drop.

I agree with this as well. I just dont think the egoic mind can ever really have that understanding. Not even in those who have "seen" it with the pure awareness at their core.

At some point, one has to "let go" of the thinking to simply experience it. It doesnt always mean the brain itself will shut up, but it can mean that you are listening to it, not identifying AS it. The egoic mind is the drop, (at least it thinks it is) in the ocean. In truth nothing really separates it from the whole of the ocean, but to the degree it believes "it" is, the ocean remains outside it.

Originally posted by SS,Naga

But this is a thread about enlightenment, and it is best to keep on track: enlightenment is actually being blocked. Why? The Greater the Light, the Greater the Resistence. You will find people who laugh at this, but the Battle of Existence between the Two Great Archetypes (Mother & Father Consciousness & Awareness) goes on unabated*: when it ends, this universe-set will blink off.
(*Unabated: Sustaining an original intensity or maintaining full force with no decrease.)

I would agree with the portion about "the greater the light the greater the darkness." Not if light is considered as I do, as consciousness itself, but if "light" is a synonym for "good" and "dark" is a synonym for "evil." The greater the idea of "goodness" is, because good/evil is a polarity, the greater "evil" becomes as well. Which is why the only way to win the battle, as I see it, is to recognize there is nothing to fight. That the whole idea of division itself was the problem.

You cannot "fight for peace." Nor can you use the mind (as in brain functions) to "overcome the ego." Any use of the ego to "understand" enlightenment takes you further from enlightenment itself in my view because as I see it enlightenment is pure conscious awareness without thinking. You begin to think about it, (as we must to discuss it) and you step away from it of necessity. The mind is the thinker, consciousness itself is the experiencer. Anything I can say about "Now" is always a little late, just the tiniest little bit lagging behind now. Consciousness is always experiencing the immediate present, while my mind is always in the past or future. Even if only so very slightly. So, any use of the egoic mind to "move towards enlightenment," (which is that immediate full consciousness of "What IS,") actually moves you slightly away from it.

being enlightened is when you realize the only person to blame is the person you see in the mirror...

But... yes... there is still an enemy that is not yourself....

And this enemy will be dealt with.

When you have nothing to fear... because you know God... then TPTB can no longer controll you.

Fear is how they controll you.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029

Bravo, I agree very much so. There are two paths you can take, neither is the right or wrong one necessarily. One is of fear and self. The other is of love and others. The latter of the two would be your definition of enlightenment.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Wertdagf


Id say that the more perspectives you understand the more of the ocean you will become.

You dont have to stay a single drop.

I agree with this as well. I just dont think the egoic mind can ever really have that understanding. Not even in those who have "seen" it with the pure awareness at their core.

At some point, one has to "let go" of the thinking to simply experience it. It doesnt always mean the brain itself will shut up, but it can mean that you are listening to it, not identifying AS it. The egoic mind is the drop, (at least it thinks it is) in the ocean. In truth nothing really separates it from the whole of the ocean, but to the degree it believes "it" is, the ocean remains outside it.

im not so warm to this outside of reality magical conciousness stuff.
There are few paths that lead to a desire to see from all points of veiw. Few are willing to feel anothers pain or to place themselves within such tragedy and carry those memorys as if they were their own.

I agree that a self-serving person would never place their hand to such a fire as infinty.

Enlightenment is when you understand yourself, others, and everything around you. It is when you understand the fundamental forces that control all the universe, and you are able to predict future events. Also, when you feel a strong connection with all objects, and you feel as though you can read the minds of all living things.

It is when you see the big picture.

In my honest opinion, it is literally like backing away from a pixelated image, and being able to see it more clearly.

It's almost like most people are looking at the image to closely, and they only see the individual pixels. All they need to do is back away and see how all the pixels combine together and make a bigger picture.

When you know how to be an artist inside of the big picture, you are enlightened.

Originally posted by killacaboose
I've spent the last year of my life in Iraq but with what little time I've had to myself I've spent studying budism and enlightenment. If you belive in reincarnation then your probably aware that one will not achive enlightenment within his first human life (not to say this is yours)

Imagine a phenox flying a silk banner and once every 100 years, he flys the banner over the top of the tallest mountain ever. The time it takes for the phenox to errode the mountain down to the ground with the silk, is the amount of time spent reaching enlightenment.

Thats how it was explained to me. Hopefully this will help and I wish you the best in reaching your enlightenment.

Cheers

P.s. you'll know when you have achived enlightenment

There is this sutra:
www.accesstoinsight.org...

which states that it is a rare event to be born as a human (compared to the many other sentient beings who are either not reborn at all or reborn as a different animal). When born a human it is even more rare one achieves complete enlightenment. While on the other hand there seems to be no shortage of enlightened teachers in the various buddhist traditions.

Originally posted by Mr Green
I believe the path to enligtenment is blocked in our dimension at every corner by lower entities and beings.

I believe selfmastery (of mind; the immovable mind) is a sign of enlightenment. No beings can block you unless you believe they can. If you believe it, they can. If you don't believe it, they cannot. In a way what is at the core of your being cannot be touched by anything outside, unless you let it in yourself or if you create these obstacles yourself.

In a more earthly way; people tell me I'm ugly - I can believe them and feel miserable and blame them for feeling miserable; I could choose not to believe them and have no worries at all.

To me enlightenment is truth, but does anyone really know what enlightenment is. We don't even fully understand this reality, nevermind other dimensions or what comes after death. There are plenty of people here on ATS who would have us believe that they now know how this reality works after just one spiritual experience or after a meditation session. I think it's safe to say they are deluding themselves. I've had a near death experience and two OBEs and even then I am not going to delude myself by pretending that I understand this reality. In truth I don't. I simply got a glimpse of something that is currently beyond my comprehension & understanding. Hopefully someday that will change.