Enlightenment. What is it and how do we know when we have achieved it?

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Wertdagf
The emotion that came along with this paragraph lead me to belive that you mocked the idea of handicapped not having souls because they couldnt understand.

Without the concept of a soul... if you cant understand the entire design of teh world around you then you cant be enlightened.

Of course enlightenment has nothing to do with intellect, or the ability to understand concepts. Not only are there various humans that lack the ability to understand complex theories, what about all of the other species?

I personally am quite sure many non-humans animals, and plants etc... are just as capable of enlightement as humans (possibly moreso) and the ability to read texts, or understand google videos has nothing to do with it.

Yes. There are several industrys that survive off of scraping your enlightnend animals off the highways every day. You can just see the understanding behid their eyes as they drink things that leak from a car and shortly die.

The reason concept terminology is so imporatnt is because they are words designated for specific processes and functions. When you say "divine" what would somone google to udnerstand what exaclty you mean? When i say "casuality" that is a very definite process of followable variables in a the physical universe that lead to it.

No one is hovering in reality without technology....... no one is getting revived in reality without tehcnology....... no one is moving things with their mind.... without technology.

Its like your still expecting people to get superpowers and be able to do extrodinary things..... without technology.

Every time somthing amazing happened i can almost garantee you it was some process of harnessing the forces in the universe... useing knowledge of those processes to do it.

key words here..... "knowledge of the processes"

Originally posted by SS,Naga
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

May I ask you both to Analyse this?
MIND:
Excretum - - - - - - - - - - - Residuum / Effluvium - - - - - Emanation
Body (matter/animal!) - - - - - -Mind or Soul - - - - - Spirit (Pure Energy)

Now, please read Walter Russell's posted statement regarding Mind, in light of this information: analyze the words, the Order: Notice the Soul or Mind in the center (above).

Well you can ask but you most prob whont get an answer I cant understand what you mean. I see a progression above but why mind and soul are linked I cant.

Are you saying we are all from one mind? Your calling pure consciousness the one first pure mind? From its word came sub creative minds and then from that dimensions were made (12?) which then became inhabited by entities (us) created by the sub creators.( all of which is still from the one mind but has become seperate) Then these entities must polarize themselves between the -/+ sides of the one minds original intention through incarnations.

Isnt this similar to what I said that we are all from one consciousness that split into many light forms to allow us to learn when incarnated in a body. The one light (mind) needed to split but still remain as one to learn.

I do agree with you that its not as easy to reincarnate as some might think, and that other dimensions may be full of souls looking down and seeing what a wonderful opportunity we are living and are desperatly trying to work out how we got here.

Anyway I think you have posted something which is above me!! Thanks though at least its making me think. Can it not be put any simpler? Does the top line mean the same as what is below it? Or does it follow on as one..? Maybe other people can analyse this better?

You see my mind to me really is just an annoyance. Its the thing that makes me make mistakes, take wrong paths in life, it fuels ego, it chatters away constantly. Meditation switches this off, I find peace away from it, so if my mind is my soul why do I feel more connected to being when its quite??

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Mr Green]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Yes. There are several industrys that survive off of scraping your enlightnend animals off the highways every day. You can just see the understanding behid their eyes as they drink things that leak from a car and shortly die.

Well I am pretty sure YOU would drink it too if you didn't know it was poison. Little antifreeze in a glass of punch, you wouldn't know the difference! Happens more often than you think, usually the deaths are attributed to unexplained kidney failure!

But I guess you like to think since you are too "enlightened" to drink it off the ground that makes you superior. Your animal bashing comments went to far for me. I will not respond to your comments from here on out.

reply to post by Sonya610


hahah knew it!

Why do you have to be such a cry baby? Is concidering that animals are not enlightned to much for your brain to handle?

O NOS THE BEAVERS GOTS NO SOUL!?!?!!?! *tears*

What evidience do you have to the contrary?

I hope there is some magical after life where you can be happy and hug all your cuddly animal friends and swim in rivers of chocolate, BUT unfortuantly to build your entire emotional house of cards on it is a BAD IDEA!

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Sonya610

 

I hope there is some magical after life where you can be happy and hug all your cuddly animal friends and swim in rivers of chocolate, BUT unfortuantly to build your entire emotional house of cards on it is a BAD IDEA!

I think animals do have souls, not sure about insects but animals yes. I see them as in a 2D consciousness rather than a 3D. Not sure why I think insects are just empty shells, maybe because they act like nano particles just going about like they are programmed. Then again they are alive...anyway lets ignore the insects for now...but yes Im sure animals have souls but at a lesser density maybe. Can an animal become enlightened? It must I guess for it to progress.....this is making me think I should be a vegetarian.

reply to post by Mr Green


Lol you cant pick and choose... that isnt logical.

To say one has a soul and the other doesnt.

Maybe we are just collections of the division of space that happen to be self aware. Nothing more nothing less.

We need to remove this magic about life, its all to soon going to be replicatable.

Originally posted by Mr Green
I think animals do have souls, not sure about insects but animals yes. I see them as in a 2D consciousness rather than a 3D. Not sure why I think insects are just empty shells, maybe because they act like nano particles just going about like they are programmed. Then again they are alive...anyway lets ignore the insects for now...but yes Im sure animals have souls but at a lesser density maybe. Can an animal become enlightened? It must I guess for it to progress.....this is making me think I should be a vegetarian.

What is the soul? What is consciousness? What makes humans and perhaps other living things more than just a bunch of molecules? And do you not believe that every part of existence is programmed, that fate does not exist? And how do you know animals don't have a soul at perhaps a "higher density"? Can it be possible that animals are naturally enlightened beings, and that we humans (or even just some humans) are the ones who have fallen short of this standard?

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Every time somthing amazing happened i can almost garantee you it was some process of harnessing the forces in the universe... useing knowledge of those processes to do it.

Amazing things happen all the time without any human harnessing the forces of the universe or using knowledge of processes. Life is an amazing thing, but who understands life? Who understands the process by which life comes into existence? Who understands the processes by why gravity, electronegativity, and matter exist? According to you every time life (the most amazing thing) happens (which is constantly) someone harnesses the forces of the universe using knowledge of the processes to do it, I think you just explained the possible existence of a God a little more clearly.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Lol you cant pick and choose... that isnt logical.

To say one has a soul and the other doesnt.

Someone told me this was so, maybe hes wrong. Thats the thing with all this, what makes what one says truth over another. Why should I believe insects dont have souls just because someone told me they dont, he doesnt know just as I dont know. Nobody really knows for sure do they.

Its not logical? Logic plays no part. Nothing in all this is logical.

Originally posted by cancerian42

Originally posted by Mr Green
Can it be possible that animals are naturally enlightened beings, and that we humans (or even just some humans) are the ones who have fallen short of this standard?

REPLY

You make a very good point here. Animals are totally free from time and mind ego. You try asking a cat what time it is, thats if we could speak cat of course. It would look at you as if you were stupid. Time is now the cat would say. Are they enlightened beings? Possibly, or maybe they just exist in a 2D world of enlightenment, yet to experience the "delights" of an incarnation in 3D.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Lol you cant pick and choose... that isnt logical.

To say one has a soul and the other doesnt.

Someone told me this was so, maybe hes wrong. Thats the thing with all this, what makes what one says truth over another. Why should I believe insects dont have souls just because someone told me they dont, he doesnt know just as I dont know. Nobody really knows for sure do they.

Its not logical? Logic plays no part. Nothing in all this is logical.

Why would you say that? is your desire for knowledge illogical?? is your hunger or thirst illogical?

The only reason people think sitting alone and humming at crystals is going to do any good is because there have been millions of deluded ignorant people with frail minds doing it for centurys.

That is not evidence that they will burst into light butterflys. The sheer volume of people that belive a LIE is not evidence that it is true.

Originally posted by Wertdagf

Originally posted by Mr Green

The only reason people think sitting alone and humming at crystals is going to do any good is because there have been millions of deluded ignorant people with frail minds doing it for centurys.

That is not evidence that they will burst into light butterflys. The sheer volume of people that belive a LIE is not evidence that it is true.

You seem almost obsessed with crystals. At no point have I ever said I chant to crystals, yet this must be the 4th time you've mentioned them, its almost like its a self formed image of people that seek enlightenment that you have. I dont have any crystals, why would I?

I dont think for a moment I will burst out into a light butterfly, whats one of them anyway? This is not a lie, its a knowing deep within, once felt you just know. I know thats sounds like a get out saying you just know but its true. I feel very uncomfertable with people that describe themselves as "light beings", to me it just a title that makes people think they are special. I refuse to use it in relation to any single person. We are all light beings, so why bother even using this title. Light butterfly sounds more likely actually. Yes we are all light beings, every single one of us.

reply to post by Mr Green


Did i say you did? the first part was giving sterotypical and natrualy regocnizable system... the second part is whats important.... do you think that there arent like 50 people reading this right now?

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Did i say you did? the first part was giving sterotypical and natrualy regocnizable system...
[edit on 15-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

Only in your mind is it stereotypical. Where is it said that all spiritual people steroetypically chant to crystals and that it is a recognizable system? Your the one forming this no one else.

Originally posted by Mr Green
Time is now the cat would say. Are they enlightened beings? Possibly, or maybe they just exist in a 2D world of enlightenment, yet to experience the "delights" of an incarnation in 3D.
[edit on 15-1-2009 by Mr Green]

But cats do not exist in 2D (2 dimensional, flat land), they are right here in the third dimension with us, correct me if I am wrong. And how is 3d better (more delightful) than 2d anyways, other than life does not exist in 2d.

Originally posted by cancerian42

Originally posted by Mr Green
But cats do not exist in 2D (2 dimensional, flat land), they are right here in the third dimension with us, correct me if I am wrong. And how is 3d better (more delightful) than 2d anyways, other than life does not exist in 2d.

From what I understand all dimensions from 1 to 3 exist within the box, together. It is only when we reach 4D that we step out of the box so to speak. Once the veil is lifted we are able to see beyond the confines of 3D, we see out of the box. Life is life whether we be in 2D or 3D. My description of 3D being more "delightful" was kind of sarcastic, its not more delightful, its more challenging. To exist in 2D has to be easier by definition.

Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Mr Green

 

Did i say you did? the first part was giving sterotypical and natrualy regocnizable system...
[edit on 15-1-2009 by Wertdagf]

Only in your mind is it stereotypical. Where is it said that all spiritual people steroetypically chant to crystals and that it is a recognizable system? Your the one forming this no one else.

Im mocking the most common and sterotypical veiw for people on forums like this. The majority of people that post on here belive that. Mocking this one flawed logic would bring the most people out of the woodwork.

Its the logic im hunting..... im the Ahab in the ocean of conciousness and logic is my white whale.

Originally posted by Mr Green
From what I understand all dimensions from 1 to 3 exist within the box, together. It is only when we reach 4D that we step out of the box so to speak. Once the veil is lifted we are able to see beyond the confines of 3D, we see out of the box. Life is life whether we be in 2D or 3D. My description of 3D being more "delightful" was kind of sarcastic, its not more delightful, its more challenging. To exist in 2D has to be easier by definition.

Are we talking about the same thing?
2d=flat with only 2 dimensions,
1. forward and backward
2. side to side

3d=our universe with 3 dimensions,
1. forward and backward
2. side to side
3. up and down

What are the directions of 4d?
and how can life exist in 2d if indeed there is such a dimension?

as i have tried to educate myself and broaden my horizons/find answers so that i KNOW THINGS i have only come to be aware that in reality.. all i have really come to know is that i basically know very little. i have had epiphanys and enlightenments but answers and explanations always lead to more questions. the journey is interesting and enjoyable though.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by jpm06002]

reply to post by jpm06002

This is exactly the same with me. Yes, there are people who say they "know" stuff, like facts and useless knowledge about existence, but do any of us really know any undeniable truths (other than the fact of existence, that there is something rather than nothing)? Life is a roller coaster, that's for sure.