Palestine Unarmed Girl Stands Up Against israeli Army[Video]

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
As brave as that girl might be I really think that was very stupid of her.If there were no cameras then she would be dead.
If I was a soldier doing my job and she was in the way then I would just shoot her and carry on doing what I was paid and ordered to do.
Thats reality.War has no conscience.

Obviously neither do you. You will put a paycheck and an order above a human being's life, who isnt armed or being any threat? IMO, that attitude is worse than either of the IDF or Hamas. Oh btw, good thing your not in the US military because un-provoked or unjustifiable killing is a chargable offense and you would find yourself before a JAG in a court martial, and quite possibly spend the rest of your life in a military prison.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I will admit that took some guts tho.

Damned straight! Bravery is not based on the type of gun or uniform a person wears. Often it only takes just being human.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by DangerDeath
I apologize, it was my mistake. I meant Man-God as opposed to God-Man, which is at the core of the Christ idea.

The historical examples of Man-God are:
Alexander the Great
Augustus Cesar
Tamerlan
Napoleon
Hitler
Stalin

and the likes of them.

Yes, I see the difference. Thank you for the clarification.

Wow! Shoot her? Kind of drastic for this situation isn't it.
As a former soldier, it would be alot easier to just restrain her then carry on with the task at hand. That's what flex-cuffs were made for.

She was of no threat to the soldiers in this video.
After it's all over I'd let her know that my job supperceeded her convictions at that moment but that I respect her for having the guts to voice them.

reply to post by RFBurns



I have already replyed to that like 5 times.I made a mistake in my wording.I didn't think about what I was writing because if I dd I would never have said that I would do that.
It was an ignorant mistake.
I do think that the army will just follow orders and take the girl out in order to achieve their objective.A girl waving her arms in front of a gun isn't going to stop them from doing what they set out to do which is why I said I would just shoot her.I didn't mean to say I.I only meant to get that point across.
What will you tell your commanding officer,that a girl was waving her arms in front of your gun everytime you raised it??
For the record I am thankful I am not in the military.


[edit on 7-1-2009 by DrumsRfun]

Originally posted by palg1
Wow! Shoot her? Kind of drastic for this situation isn't it.
As a former soldier, it would be alot easier to just restrain her then carry on with the task at hand. That's what flex-cuffs were made for.

She was of no threat to the soldiers in this video.
After it's all over I'd let her know that my job supperceeded her convictions at that moment but that I respect her for having the guts to voice them.

While I agree with some of this, the part about, after its all over, I'd let her know that my job superceeded her convictions, is questionable. They were firing at children and unarmed people. What job is that? I would have beat the commanding officer to a pulp within an inch of his life had he offered such an order, if I was there. Obviously, not made for military duty, eh? But thats the kind of job called on us when we incarnate here! You know, the real job we're on, the tasks we take on before coming. Say no to bad orders everyone.

[edit on 7-1-2009 by mystiq]

What she did wasnt very smart but I can understand her intentions and reasons i guess, i hope shes still safe and unharmed.
Now having said that, Ill say the part thats going to make me more unpopular than I already am.

If I were a soldier in that position, one where i was in a war and was being shot at, although it didnt appear he was, I probably would not have been as patient as he was.
Her being there not only put her life in danger, it would have put mine in danger as well because shes a distraction and distractions in a firefight will get you killed.
Of course im also not so cold that I wouldve shot her but I would either have to take her down myself, or have someone else do it, forcefully if necessary and escort her somewhere else, for mine and her own safety.

I am surprised She was left alive.

Without any cameras She would be dead.

Then again, cameras usually do not stop IDF from killing civilians.

Shoot the cameraman too and solve the problem.

Voila.

Much RESPECT for Her bravery.

[edit on 7/1/09 by Souljah]

reply to post by mystiq


Be thankful that someone, somewhere was willing to go to war to give you the right to speak and teach your sons such drivel!

This is my take on the situation:

www.prisonplanet.com...

It looks as if Hamas was designed to weaken the Moslem world and aid the fascist agenda....


2. The CIA, and its friends in MI6 and Mossad, developed the idea of using ‘Moslem’ militants to advance their ‘fascist’ agenda.

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is used by the CIA and MI6 to do their dirty work.

(The use of the Muslim Brotherhood by MI6 and the CIA in Egypt, Syria and Iran)

Hamas has made the Palestinians look like ‘mad Moslems’.

Hamas has divided the Palestinians.

Hamas has given the Israelis an excuse to kill off hundreds more Palestinians.

“Some analysts believe …HAMAS, an offshoot of the Egyptian Islamic Brotherhood was created in 1987… to counter-balance the nationalistic… Fatah.

“The Fatah leadership believes the establishment of Hamas was not without the help of the Egyptian Mokhabarat and the Israeli Mossad.” (Killing Palestinian Civilians; Who is to Blame?)

Its all just a game, orchestrated by the same powers that be, under the Bildenburg group, in their fascist angenda, and all the poor traumatized people who have lost so much on both sides, innocents dying, keeps the pain and trauma going. Enough. Throw petals at the feet of the soldiers. Sings songs of peace. Kneel in prayer, but not to a God of War, but to a God of Peace, or to the Creator/Universe and sidestep all the manmade crap, if you can, and join hands on both sides, civilians I mean, and honor the dead together on both sides, light candles for them, then cast the petals down.

The only battles we should ever fight is the one to rid the world of the fascist cartel, the bloodlines and their henchmen leaders.

reply to post by sdrawkcabII


Not only that but who's to say she didn't have some kind of IED in that bag? The camera saved her life - at least until it was turned off.

Originally posted by Zepherian
This is what happens when the female spirit is more active in human affairs.

She is a brave woman and I can't praise her enough.

As for the soldiers, like all soldiers, they are brainwashed and disconnected from their humanity. Forgive them, for they know not what they do, as someone once said...

Oh yeah! That's why they blew her away for all to see! Come off your estrogen high-horse for a minute - just for fairness sake: what are terrorists?

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by Wertdagf

Ignorance is not a crime. Unlike your goodself, the Palestinain people can't just jump a plane on a few weeks/months wages and see every portion of the world.

Unlike you, the Palestinians do not have information at the click of a button.

They know little, because they are a trapped people. Borders have closed, few counties will allow them in. Shame on you.

The Palestinian people have chosen to elect leaders who claim they will bring an end to the Israeli 'oppression'. These leaders have a vested interest in cultivating the culture of death - it furthers their cause which is the annihilation of the Nation of Israel. This conflict only appears to be about land. It is perpetuated by one thing and that is hatred for the other side!

reply to post by RaDios


Sorry, but I run on testosterone.

Granted, they didn't shoot her, but they were trying to shoot the guys behind them, which to me was bad enough and was what I was referring to. Had they shot a woman like that on camera they would have been lynched, probably by their own comrades, male minds work in a wierd hardwired way regarding females, as any sexually active woman knows.

When the military want to kill women they usually are indirect about it, they know the implications.

I see a girl who doesn't speak Hebrew approaching men who wouldn't think to shoot her, in a wonderful display of 'shame on you!". Their guns are lowered and they are saying, No-no. The girl is considered brave, though she is in no real danger to begin with.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Anyone consider that Israel might have been responding to a disturbance they did not themselves actuate? That they might be there to restore order and curious as to who shot the bombs?

What better way to get the nations to frown on the state and call a jihad against all jewish children, than to bomb palestinian school houses from Jereuselum's direction?

It's a viewpoint.

That was the bravest thing I've ever seen. She stood up to soldiers with guns. Yes there was a camera there but who's to say what would of happened if there wasn't. She took a chance with even a camera there and stood her ground. She didn't curse, throw rocks or anything threatening which helped her situation I believe.

It's funny what people will say about a situation they're not in. We're all sitting down in a chair surfing the web while this girl is standing in front of soldiers with guns. Rubber bullets or not! Does anyone really know what's happening over there or is it just these media videos and pictures that tells the story?

I give her a big thumbs up for doing what she did and I can only wish that everybody would communicate instead of annihilate.

Kinda funny. I mean this is not the woman with her whole body and face covered that FOX would love to show us.

reply to post by ADVISOR


Sorry Advisor, much as I respect many of your posts and of course your combat experience which I lack, I'd still beg to differ on some important points.

You say that "No professional soldier is going to willingly kill a non combatant". There's just too much history to disprove that. For example, here is a partial list of WWII atrocities. Here's one for the Iraq war. I don't know if you've ever read about the "rape of Nanking", but the behaviour of the Japanese soldiers occupying the city revolted even the Nazi observers - you had Japanese officers competing to see how many Chinese they could decapitate with their samurai swords. Here's a source about that.

Now I'm British. Do I think that the Brits are superior in this respect? No. we're all human beings and malleable under the pressures of being in an occupying army as this source shows.

And of course, apart from Israel, the most egregious recent instances of atrocities committed by occupying troops are emerging from Iraq. This is just from the first source I found in a cursory search :

... I was in charge of a platoon that consists of machine gunners and missile men. Our job was to go into certain areas of the towns and secure the roadways. There was this one particular incident - and there's many more - the one that really pushed me over the edge. It involved a car with Iraqi civilians. From all the intelligence reports we were getting, the cars were loaded down with suicide bombs or material. That's the rhetoric we received from intelligence. They came upon our checkpoint. We fired some warning shots. They didn't slow down. So we lit them up.

Q: Lit up? You mean you fired machine guns?

A: Right. Every car that we lit up we were expecting ammunition to go off. But we never heard any. Well, this particular vehicle we didn't destroy completely, and one gentleman looked up at me and said: "Why did you kill my brother? We didn't do anything wrong." That hit me like a ton of bricks...

....

Q: The reports said the cars were loaded with explosives. In all the incidents did you find that to be the case?

A: Never. Not once. There were no secondary explosions. As a matter of fact, we lit up a rally after we heard a stray gunshot.

Q: A demonstration? Where?

A: On the outskirts of Baghdad. Near a military compound. There were demonstrators at the end of the street. They were young and they had no weapons. And when we rolled onto the scene, there was already a tank that was parked on the side of the road. If the Iraqis wanted to do something, they could have blown up the tank. But they didn't. They were only holding a demonstration. Down at the end of the road, we saw some RPGs (rocket-propelled grenades) lined up against the wall. That put us at ease because we thought: "Wow, if they were going to blow us up, they would have done it."

Q: Were the protest signs in English or Arabic?

A: Both.

Q: Who gave the order to wipe the demonstrators out?

A: Higher command. We were told to be on the lookout for the civilians because a lot of the Fedayeen and the Republican Guards had tossed away uniforms and put on civilian clothes and were mounting terrorist attacks on American soldiers. The intelligence reports that were given to us were basically known by every member of the chain of command. The rank structure that was implemented in Iraq by the chain of command was evident to every Marine in Iraq. The order to shoot the demonstrators, I believe, came from senior government officials, including intelligence communities within the military and the U.S. government.

Q: What kind of firepower was employed?

A: M-16s, 50-cal. machine guns.

Q: You fired into six or ten kids? Were they all taken out?

A: Oh, yeah. Well, I had a "mercy" on one guy. When we rolled up, he was hiding behind a concrete pillar. I saw him and raised my weapon up, and he put up his hands. He ran off. I told everybody, "Don't shoot." Half of his foot was trailing behind him. So he was running with half of his foot cut off.

That, as I say, is just one report. I wouldn't labour the point by quoting others, but there are plenty more. Let alone getting into the inhumanity of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. This isn't about Iraq - it's just to illustrate that those kinds of incidents are far from uncommon with an army of occupation. There are really good reasons, historically, why it's better to have police keeping the peace than soldiers: soldiers are trained to kill, police are trained to keep the peace. Israel's occupying army have had carte blanche for a long time and as other posters have noted, without the cameras it would probably have been a different story.

You also say : "The term enemy is an over used hollywood term. It is an ignorant mind set. Some thing that developed over generations, and will take many more to correct. "

Again, sorry, but I'd disagree. I'm having difficulty finding sources for this, and it's already a long post, but one of the things that came up in the kind of large-scale warfare that the 20th century ushered in is that, fundamentally, most people don't want to kill someone else. They have to be trained to do it and one of the things that makes it easier is the process of dehumanizing the "enemy". Propaganda techniques to effect this have been common since the beginning of the last century, if not before.

Now in your quote above, though it isn't clear, you might be simply referring to the generational enmity between the Palestinians and the Israelis: but as I say, it's not clear - and referring to "the enemy" has been standard practice for a very long time indeed.

You also say, "Hate is ignorance, I never hated the insurgents. I sure as heck got really po'ed at them and wanted vengence, yes."

No doubt it's hard not to get po'ed at people who are trying to kill you. I'd suspect, though, that it's easy to forget that you were occupying their country, and for them to want US forces a) to stop killing civilians and b) to simply leave is, for me at least, understandable.

One last point. I notice you're very patriotic. I do like my country - it's not perfect, but it's still kind of cool in my book - but patriotism is something of which I'm VERY suspicious, and here's why. When I found out that Argentina had invaded the Falkland islands, I was quite literally in a killing rage for about an hour. I'd quite happily have bayoneted an Argie if there had been one about.

After a while, though, I came to my senses and my first thought was, "er... where ARE the Falklands, exactly?" And the memory of that irrational killing rage has stayed with me ever since. At the time I was pretty apolitical, didn't think of myself as a patriot, and had just graduated from a fairly left-wing university (by US standards, it would be utterly communist, no doubt). The fact that such visceral rage could be provoked in me scared me ****less, I can tell you - and it made me realise how much truth there is in the old saying "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Have you ever come across what Hermann Goering said at the Nuremberg trials?

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

Does this seem like what's happening in the US at all?

However, your quotation from Jefferson very much describes my kind of patriot.

But I guess my favourite quotation about patriotism has to be by Einstein :

"The flag is a symbol of the fact that man is still a herd animal."

Soldiers may be brainwashed but we aren't stupid.
If a girl spoke english that well,first I would be wondering what she is doing here anyway.

This to me is not bravery..Its smart stupidity.
They weren't gonna shoot her cause she was probably American..

The IDF could care less about shooting a girl. But they don't wanna mess up relationships with America by been seen killing our people.

As for the IDF...does anyone else think they appear very unorganized

[edit on 7-1-2009 by DalairTheGreat]

those soldiers were just as scared as she was. they recognized conscience over order for a moment. then realised that disobeying the order could kill them. the limbo between good and evil is truly humbling. watch their body language when the clip first shows them. they probably have not felt that feeling since childhood. i'll bet they were sweating.

i love multiple camera angles on amatuer youtube videos. gives it that finsihing touch of authenticity