Israel-If This Thread Doesn't Open You're Eyes,Then Nothing Will.

So what's the solution?

From the Palestinian point of view, how would you feel if someone stole your land? You'd fight to get it back wouldn't you?

From the Israeli point of view, how would you feel if someone invaded your land? You fight to defend it wouldn't you?

Let us not forget that when we use the labels Israeli and Palestinian it really refers to the controlling powers of those people not the people themselves.

So what is the solution to end all this?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I agree. People have to suffer for the actions of their government whether they agree with them or not. I wrote, I complained, I shouted from the roof top for us not to go into Iraq but our government has been hijacked and the will of the American people is no longer of interest or importance. You see how they listened to the overwhelming response of the American people about this bail-out business. Unfortunately because of the corruption and the hijacking of the world governments, solutions will not come from the will of the people. It will come from the desires of the powers that be.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
So what's the solution?

From the Palestinian point of view, how would you feel if someone stole your land? You'd fight to get it back wouldn't you?

From the Israeli point of view, how would you feel if someone invaded your land? You fight to defend it wouldn't you?

Let us not forget that when we use the labels Israeli and Palestinian it really refers to the controlling powers of those people not the people themselves.

So what is the solution to end all this?

See you believe that this "conflict" is between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I believe that everything in the Mideast revolves around resource control and this particular facet we see has several levels that we don't see. We are "Shocked & Awed" and on a ride that has gripped us like the OJ Simpson chase did but now to a greater level.

For us this is a training exercise in learning how to be team players, accepting our leaders decisions like them or not, desensitization to the look of 3rd world ghettos and humility. We get accustomed to seeing military, helicopters, tanks, blood and carnage. We are conditioned to surrendering to the awesome military power of our armies and police and follow commands or else.

Consider this a "Public Beating" by the IDF/USA that the Iranians, Pakistanis, No. Koreans, Jordanians, etc. are all watching, but the intent is to school them as if to say, "Now watch what we gonna do to your friend and if you don't want this done to you give us the Yeyo!" We are their to control the resources with our proxy minions and we slap people around and beat them down to send messages.

The USA wants nothing more than to antagonize the Iranians and get them to start shooting since we could be considered as justified in shooting back. We have to create a good guy image and always speak of our enemies as "Evil Terrorists" that hate us for our freedom.

There is a spiritual and historical thread to the Middle East conflict: In the 7th Century AD the prophet Muhammed stated that the Jews were so disobedient and abhorrent to Allah, that Allah booted them out of their land and THAT THEY WOULD NEVER RETURN. This is what the Muslim Prophet prophesied.

On the other hand, the Hebrew prophets prophesied that due to the disobedience of the Jews, that the Jews would TWICE be removed from the land and that after that they would return NEVER TO BE REMOVED AGAIN!. They were removed by Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon in about the 6th or 7th Century BC, and again by Titus of Rome in 70 AD. They returned to the land in May 1948. Just as the Hebrew prophets had said.

Therefore, in 1948, Muhammed was proven to be a false prophet. All of Islam realizes that Muhammed made this error, and in order to save face of their prophet and of Allah, Israel must once again be removed. Thus their unremitting hostility. They either admit Muhammed is a false prophet, and admit that their religion is a fabrication, or they can destroy the evidence. Plus the added incentive to prove the Hebrew prophets wrong (good luck with that one).

Not that the hostility began in 1948. It began with the birth of Ishmael to Abraham, who persecuted Isaac who was born 13 years later. Ishmael was the son of Hagar, an Egyptian, Isaac was the son of Sarah, the Hebrew, who conceived Isaac by a miracle at the age of 89. Due to jealousy and the persecution of Isaac by Ishmael, and the instructions of Jehovah, as well as the desire of his wife Sarah, Abraham disinherited Ishmael, leaving all to Isaac.

And besides these, there are the progeny of Esau, Jacob's brother (Jacob is Israel), whom Jacob cheated to get Esau's inheritance. Then there are Noah's progeny through incest with his daughters while drunken. Add to this the sons of Abraham through Keturah (after Sarah died) and so you have enough of Abraham's progeny (plus the others) through the flesh to overwhelm in numbers Abraham's progeny through the Spirit (the promise of God). All of these fleshly progeny reside in the Middle East. Always have. And Jehovah had this to say of Ishmael and his offspring: "he (Ishmael) will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." What a perfect description of today's Middle East Muslim mentality! I guess that was just luck to call it 4000 years in advance?

And so the persecution of the spritual by the fleshly has been going on for millenia. And now we have a ringside seat to see what was begun 4000 years ago. It is like a seed that was planted and is now coming to full harvest. And harvest time is soon to come.

reply to post by anymouse

There is a spiritual and historical thread to the Middle East conflict: In the 7th Century AD the prophet Muhammed stated that the Jews were so disobedient and abhorrent to Allah, that Allah booted them out of their land and THAT THEY WOULD NEVER RETURN. This is what the Muslim Prophet prophesied.

Where?
I have never read such a thing.

On the other hand, the Hebrew prophets prophesied that due to the disobedience of the Jews, that the Jews would TWICE be removed from the land and that after that they would return NEVER TO BE REMOVED AGAIN!. They were removed by Nebuchadnezzer of Babylon in about the 6th or 7th Century BC, and again by Titus of Rome in 70 AD. They returned to the land in May 1948. Just as the Hebrew prophets had said.

The 2 times the Jews were exiled involved Assyria and Babylon,not Babylon and Rome.During the reign of Titus the Jews rebelled against Roman rule,and at the same time got into a civil conflict.Titus used the distraction civil fighting to lay siege to Jerusalem.Those not killed or enslaved fled.The Jews in the rest of the land were not chased out or exiled.


And some Muslims believe they are the descendant of Joktan,(Qahtan)son of Eber.(who was the great-grandson of Noah's son Shem) Others,known as Arabu ‘l-Musta’ribah(the mixed Arabs)claim to be descended from Ishmael.

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

 

I agree. People have to suffer for the actions of their government whether they agree with them or not. I wrote, I complained, I shouted from the roof top for us not to go into Iraq but our government has been hijacked and the will of the American people is no longer of interest or importance. You see how they listened to the overwhelming response of the American people about this bail-out business. Unfortunately because of the corruption and the hijacking of the world governments, solutions will not come from the will of the people. It will come from the desires of the powers that be.

You are so right. What you said applies to EVERYTHING. That is why I don't go to church although I am a Christian. Churches today are controlled by the members who have the money. The pastors do the bidding of the rich members who contribute the big bucks. These members aren't there to get saved either, it's all about making more money. The corruption of the past 30 years is now reaping what it has sown.

Originally posted by Europe
reply to post by Bl0rg

 

and yet those "pathetic" rockets still manage to kill israelis! i wonder why that is, especially when the rockets are so "pathetic"

30 Israelis killed by those Hamas rockets. 600 Palestinians killed by the Israelis. Quite out of proportion.

Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
Why all the bleeding hearts for the arabs? They a little more than animals. They mistreat females by beating hem, not allowing education, make them wear stupid clothes and won't let them own property to name a few things. They follow a false god and have a really stupid religion. What's with that kneeling on a rug several times a day. They don't even know how to shake hands.

I assume that you mean Islamic Arabs as no Christian Arab do what you describe. In Lebanon, for example, 39% of the Arabs are Christian.

However I understand that your point is that animals do all those things that those [Islamic] Arabs do and that is simply not true for any animal I've ever seen or heard of.

Originally posted by moniker

Originally posted by Europe
reply to post by Bl0rg

 

and yet those "pathetic" rockets still manage to kill israelis! i wonder why that is, especially when the rockets are so "pathetic"

30 Israelis killed by those Hamas rockets. 600 Palestinians killed by the Israelis. Quite out of proportion.

How does anyone know how many Palestinians have so far been killed by the "Mad Dog"Israelis? F-16s were dropping 500 lb smart bombs. Some of the weapons used are high yield and many times those objects closest to the explosion are completely gone. Also why are we trusting the Israelis not to down play these ##s to avoid looking worse than they already do?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
This war Israel is waging has a few purposes. It is not to end Hamas terrorism, but to save face for election, it is to ensure an obedient jewish population, and it is used to promote antisemitism abroad.

Zionisms best friend is antisemitism, Ben Gurion new this.. antisemitism abroad will encourage more jews to move back to israel.

How? A Semite is by definition somebody who originate from that area, which the Palestines do but a surprisingly large portion of the Israelis don't. Although the Israelis have hijacked the term to mean anti-Jewish, that is not what it really means.

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
Israel will triumph over these evil terrorists this time and I don't think they are going to listen to anyone until they kill every terrorist that has ever lifted a rifle, fired a rocket into downtown Israel, detonated a car bomb, or strapped a pound of modified explosive to their bodies and walked into a cafe and pulled the trigger. They will kill as many terrorists as they can before they stop.

I fear that Israel is now killing people mostly at random and then declare that precisely those that has been killed, women or men, children or elderly, doctors or UN personnel, are all terrorists.

reply to post by Odessy


Yes but you are an occupying force having displaced the indigenous inhabitants from their homes. My government [UK] should have seen this coming before they carved the land up in 1948.

I suspect that the Israelis wanted to act on Gaza while the Bush administration is still in power and they can count with US support and its filibustering in the Security Council.

When Obama takes over January 20, these things may change, and maybe not just a little, and by then they will want it to be over and done with, because such actions may after that justly face more opposition from the rest of the world.

JES

reply to post by AlienChaser


its funny that people always want to sit back and make statements like...boycott isreal, they raise their children to hate the palestines...



if youre going to boycott isreal, make sure you boycott palestine too. both sides are wrong, both sides are right..

REPLY to Odessy


Israeli's who really want peace should consider moving to another country that has a good track record in assimilating Jews into their population. There are plenty to choose from.

Personally I find religion offensive due to the dogma and separation it creates among the people of the world, which is then utilised by those who hide in the shadows for their nasty games of manipulation to further their evil fascist agenda's. People need to move away from these old forms of spirituality and find their own way to God, as did the mystics of the past. This would be a great step towards world peace.

Much criticism is directed towards Israel because the violence against the people of Gaza is so incredibly disproportionate and is affecting people locked in a ghetto who have nowhere to run. Furthermore the use of phosphorus bombs is supposed to be illegal , so they must have a very cruel effect on victims. At least they will not have the ongoing effect as cluster bombs have had in Lebanon.

Some people are suggesting that Hamas is controlled by outside forces and if this is so then one needs to question what would be the real agenda here. Logic would point to a desire by these powers for a major theatre of war aimed at eliminating all those of a fundamentalist leaning (of all religions of the Book) . The considered "advantages" of this may be massive world population reduction, theft of Middle Eastern oil and gold resources, stimulation of the world's economy to counteract the massive de-frauding of people's savings and investments by the banksters, a ploy used to bring in global governance or even a new universal religion such as that of Lucifer....who knows, but there has to be someone very powerful allowing this to happen as it would be unacceptable anywhere else in the developed world.

My advice to your family is to leave Israel for a saner existence elsewhere before it is too late. Jewish friends of mine once told me how their grandparents went back to visit Poland some years after WW2 and found that no-one in their street had survived. I asked them how it was that they had and they replied that their grandfather had seen what was coming and emigrated before it became too late to do so.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Nineteen]

What is the real agenda? Why is Fatah being supported yet Hamas villified?

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge on the subject could answer that one?

Because Fatah has changed its ideology (maybe) and actions (certainly).

Hamas still has as a core policy the extermination and expulsion of all Jews from territory of Israel. There are some crazy rightwingers in Israel of course who have the same idea in reverse but fortunately they are not the majority and are not in charge of official policy.

The second reason is that Hamas claims their justification is essentialist (in effect "Jews are intriniscally wicked") and an immutable religious imperative, and so there is no possibility for negotiation.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by mbkennel]

[edit on 10-1-2009 by mbkennel]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Odessy

 

Yes but you are an occupying force having displaced the indigenous inhabitants from their homes. My government [UK] should have seen this coming before they carved the land up in 1948.

Perhaps, but by this argument the Hindus in India have the right to go back to their land in Pakistan and expel all the Muslims there too.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by drock905
many christians believe that Jesus will return through the Eastern Gate of The Dome of the Rock? Sounds like a gateway to Heaven to me.

(allegedly) Jesus will land in that spot - coming in the same manner that he was taken up - kinda floating on clouds with angels or whatever.

But that's not the 'gateway to heaven'. According to christians - the only way humans can get to heaven is through the state of the soul - through faith. That is the gateway to heaven. It's kind of inward - not outward.

Who has control over the Dome of the Rock doesn't influence Christian beliefs at all. (allegedly) Christ will still come and land there no matter what is on that spot or who has control over it.

For Christians, who has control of it isn't important to getting into heaven. It's not a gateway. It's more like Christ's landing pad.

"Christ's Landing Pad" would be a good name for a Christian rock band.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Odessy

 

Yes but you are an occupying force having displaced the indigenous inhabitants from their homes. My government [UK] should have seen this coming before they carved the land up in 1948.

It was carved up according to British rule in 1917 as a result of a League of Nations meeting. Later in 48 it was the UNs turn at decapitating the Palestinians.

ISRAEL YOU SLUT YOU WHORE YOU MEDUSA STOP RAPPING THE LAND YOU STOLE FROM THE PALESTINIANS STOP HIDING YOUR WOLF FACE AND GET OUT OF THOSE SHEEP'S CLOTHES YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED FOR 2012
THERE WILL BE A TIME AND THERE WILL BE A PLACE THE TIME IS NOW

EVERY MAN SHALL TASTE DEATH
2012 IS COMING WAKE UP 2012 IS COMING WAKE UP
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