Divorce Papers Found-Obama Sr./ Ann Dunham says Obama Jr. born in Kenya

Originally posted by ChocoTaco369

You, sir, are a hypocrite.

EVERY president elect should have to provide proof of his eligibility, and everything Obama has been doing is textbook for someone trying to create a cover-up.

Sorry, the MSM and the far lefty nutjobs on this board and elsewhere may have anointed him, but I have not. I care more about the Constitution than seeing the guy I voted for get elected.

Typical, attack the messenger, I guess I am a hypocrite because I am registered as an independent, generally vote conservative and yet seem to equally defend a democrat and a republican. The politics of the individual are irrelevant to me in this type of issue. What is important? The facts are important.

The facts are that Obama has been duly elected as President of the United States of America. His background was checked and he has met the requirements necessary to be eligible for POTUS and he has been endorsed by the Democratic Party long before the election was held. Since then, he has been elected, deal with it like an adult.

Your actions and comments are not consistent with a person who is concerned with the Constitution, but rather with a person concerned with the Constitution only when it works in their favor. Else you would be concerned with Obama’s Constitutional rights to take office as the duly elected President.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
AS AN AMERICAN ,YOU SHOULD DEMAND PROOF.

I am, I do, they did, end of story.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
maybe we can't see the trees for the forest ?

Maybe some see a forest where there are no trees.

Obamassiah will be crowned ruler on jan 20th, the beginning of the end of this age. Truth and Fact mean nothing in this case. Those who see his "vileness" for who and what he is, move to the mountians, digin and wait for the true return of Christ, this false one is here and there is no stopping him til Jesus does it.........

Interesting how this thread rocketed to 13-14 pages in two days but then suddenly when the "proof" is released the thread mostly dies.

There's nothing in it related to the original post about a Kenyan birth. Can we get this thread tagged as a hoax?

Well, it shows Obama Sr. was Obama Jr.s daddy and it shows Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham were married at the time of Obama Jr.s birth. Which shows Obama Jr. is a British citizen. Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children. If an American woman marries a foreigner the nationality of their children is invariably that of the father regardless of the original nationality of the mother. The child belongs by law to the nation of his father, and is subject to the laws and statutory obligations of that nation. Until that child grows up, it's nationality will always be that of the father.

reply to post by TechnicianOfLaw


Can you read the title of the thread? It says that the divorce papers would prove he was born in Kenya.

The divorce papers don't say jack about that. Therefor it's a hoax and sensationalism.

In any event you must be from Plains Radio because I remember that exact same post in one of their threads. In order for your post to have legal merit and to be true a court would have to agree with it, and so far no one has.

So I guess I'll ask again, can we get this thread marked as a hoax?

Originally posted by TechnicianOfLaw
If an American woman marries a foreigner the nationality of their children is invariably that of the father regardless of the original nationality of the mother.

If you mean that the child will inherit the citizenship of the father, you are correct. When Obama was born, he had dual citizenship - British and United States. In 1963, when Kenya became independent, he again had dual citizenship - Kenyan and United States. At the age of 21, according to the Kenyan Constitution, he LOST his Kenyan citizenship, leaving him a citizen of the US, which he remains to this day.

All of this is moot, however, as Obama was BORN in the USA, making him a natural born citizen, regardless of his various citizenships.

The child belongs by law to the nation of his father, and is subject to the laws and statutory obligations of that nation. Until that child grows up, it's nationality will always be that of the father.

The child is grown up. He's 47 years old, I think. You will find that the United States does not follow the laws of other countries. We don't really care what the British Nationality Act or any other country's constitutions or laws say, as we have our own set.

Obama was born in the USA and according to US Law, which is what we follow here, ANYONE born in the US and under the jurisdiction thereof (which Obama was and is), is a natural born citizen. The various citizenships he holds has no bearing on the FACT that he was born in the USA.

on an on it goes .......ho hum

The Citizens of the United States have a right to request any information from presidential candidates long before any presidential election is held. I am not quoting any laws here, just common sense. Noncompliance to any request of information should disqualify said candidate. Being President of the United States is the one public office that you can buy your way into; everyone else has to be grilled by Congress and that includes nominated Supreme Court Justices. Go figure...

Originally posted by TechnicianOfLaw

There's nothing in it related to the original post about a Kenyan birth. Can we get this thread tagged as a hoax?

Well, it shows Obama Sr. was Obama Jr.s daddy and it shows Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham were married at the time of Obama Jr.s birth. Which shows Obama Jr. is a British citizen. Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children. If an American woman marries a foreigner the nationality of their children is invariably that of the father regardless of the original nationality of the mother. The child belongs by law to the nation of his father, and is subject to the laws and statutory obligations of that nation. Until that child grows up, it's nationality will always be that of the father.

Your argument reminds me of the Bush administration's defense of their Iraq policy: it keeps changing each time their claims are shown to be false. So the divorce papers repudiate your claim, so now Obama is unqualified because at birth he inherited British citizenship. As the above poster shows this claim is also moot, so what's next? It seems your hatred for Obama is only exceeded by your lack of integrity. Case closed.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Funny, back in 1874, it is clear that SCOTUS understood exactly what constituted a natural born citizen...

"The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their [p168] parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens."
Minor v. Happersett (1874)

And this case wasn't even about citizenship, but the right to vote!

References for further knowledge on this case

Wikipedia

FindLaw


Edit to fix link and date
[edit on 1/3/09 by redhatty]

[edit on 1/3/09 by redhatty]

This Divorce document, which no one has been able to locate for the last 2 years suddenly,shows up, via this dodgy Ed Hale and a mysterious P.I. while Obama is holidaying in Hawaii.

The conspiracy part of my brain says.....hmmmm.

BTW on the plainsradio site , it says that 4 pages were missing.
Did these end up materialising??

Originally posted by Flighty
This Divorce document, which no one has been able to locate for the last 2 years suddenly,shows up, via this dodgy Ed Hale and a mysterious P.I. while Obama is holidaying in Hawaii.

The conspiracy part of my brain says.....hmmmm.

BTW on the plainsradio site , it says that 4 pages were missing.
Did these end up materialising??

It is my understanding that Hawaii (and some other states) USED to have (and may still have) "Secret Dockets" - note the "S" in the docket number.

That was something that was available to "high profile or celebrity" Divorces, as well as cases against the Judiciary.

That could explain why it was so very hard to find.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you mean that the child will inherit the citizenship of the father, you are correct. When Obama was born, he had dual citizenship - British and United States. In 1963, when Kenya became independent, he again had dual citizenship - Kenyan and United States. At the age of 21, according to the Kenyan Constitution, he LOST his Kenyan citizenship, leaving him a citizen of the US, which he remains to this day.

All of this is moot, however, as Obama was BORN in the USA, making him a natural born citizen, regardless of his various citizenships.

As you well know, BH, I respectfully disagree with you on this issue

So once again...

We know that Obama held dual-citizenship at the time of birth, and continued to hold dual-citizenship until the age of 18, at which time he became a full US citizen.

The fact that he later, due to the circumstances of his birth, became a Us citizen and only a US citizen by defaul, means that his citizenship is in fact, a process of naturalization, not natural-born status.

Something (the passing of time) had to occur for Obama to be fully and ONLY a US citizen, therefore he could not possibly be considered a natural-born citizen.

Another interesting tidbit of information I ran across...

Under The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 and the Presidential Primary Matching Payment Account Act, the Federal Election Commission ("FEC") must certify to the Treasury that a candidate meets the enumerated statutory eligibility requirements to receive funds under the applicable act. See 11 C.F.R. § 9036 (1987). None of these acts refer to the constitutional eligibility of candidates for federal office. Nevertheless, the issue of eligibility under the natural-born citizen clause might be raised under the federal election laws, on a theory that constitutional eligibility to hold office is an implicit condition to certification for receiving funds under the Acts.

see page 16 footnote 85

Hmmm, no wonder Obama decided NOT to use the Federal Campaign Funds.

Can I call for a REALITY CHECK? Not wanting to disparage anything anyone has posted - but -

Whether he is within the bounds of the Constitutional prerequisites for his position or not, Obama will assume the Presidency of the United States in a couple weeks from now.

Fanning the flames of questions on his eligibility, he chose not to supply documents that would have removde any questions immediately and unhesitantly. Instead much time, effort, and money went into countering legal objections that went as far as the Supreme Court.

He was elected to office in the State of Illinois. He was put forward as a serious Democratic candidate for the presidency. Human nature being what it is, it didn't occur to anyone there might be issues on his birthplace and citizenship.

Those who had motives to eliminate him politically, both the Clinton campaign and the Republicans, likely checked out any leads on on status that could knock him out of the race, but could not come up with anything substantive.

It didn’t occur to anyone, even all the Obama bashers on internet sites, to check to see if there was anything relevant in his parents’ divorce papers.
Knowing the family history, it is the sort of thing an experienced private investigator would think of, but not a politician.

So it’s very possible an oversight made by all concerned wanting to find revealing and compromising data on the Obama family’s first year.

Just an opinion, I’d say that even if Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and it can be proven, it will not compromise his taking office and staying in the White House. It’s too late and too embarrassing for too many people on so many high levels.

Let’s remember a situation with a few parallels, George Bush may actually have lost the 2000 election by a few hundred votes in the State of Florida. There was a lot of evidence that indicated this and lrgal issues being raised well into his first year in the White House. But he is President today.

Mike F

Originally posted by davion
Interesting how this thread rocketed to 13-14 pages in two days but then suddenly when the "proof" is released the thread mostly dies.

Indicative is a better word than interesting.

Originally posted by redhatty
Funny, back in 1874, it is clear that SCOTUS understood exactly what constituted a natural born citizen...

But that doesn't define natural born citizen at all. It just says all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens."

Certainly, children born in the US of 2 citizens are "natural-born" citizens, but your case doesn't limit "natural-born" citizens to that requirement. In fact, in the following paragraph, it states that aliens can become US citizens and then have a child, even if that child is born overseas, and it would be considered a natural-born citizen."

Originally posted by redhatty
We know that Obama held dual-citizenship at the time of birth, and continued to hold dual-citizenship until the age of 18, at which time he became a full US citizen.

He did not BECOME a full citizen of the US. He was born a full citizen of the US and under the jurisdiction thereof. You're looking at it as though he was 50% US citizen and 50% British citizen. That's not how it works. US citizenship is seen through US laws alone. A person born here is 100% US citizen, regardless what other citizenships they hold. The word dual just means more than one, not split between two.

Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship.

He did not BECOME a citizen and he was not Naturalized. He was never NOT a full 100% US citizen.

US Citizenship and Immigration Services

Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is conferred upon a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

Hmmm, no wonder Obama decided NOT to use the Federal Campaign Funds.

Nice conspiracy theory, but I think it's because he was up against the Republican machine, who had shown in the past ,the depths they were willing to go to and he needed all the money he could get to fight them.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


By golly you are a gullible person. Would you like to buy some cheap stock in Fannie Mae? Enron? How about a share in the Brooklyn Bridge Company?

I've got jpegs of my ownership that I'll post for you to review. See? It's all legal? Besides, I'm emperor of the world - I've got a certificate of emporership, too. I'll post it right below my Certificate of Ownership of Fannie Mae and the Federal Reserve Bank of Hotlanta.

quite honestly, who cares where he was born?

I can think of thousands of citizens and foreign born members of society I would rather have acting as President over the last eight years.

Nationalism is kind of like racism, isn't it?

EITHER POST OBAMA'S "OFFICIAL KENYAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE" OR please close this "HOAX" of a thread!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He did not BECOME a full citizen of the US. He was born a full citizen of the US and under the jurisdiction thereof. You're looking at it as though he was 50% US citizen and 50% British citizen. That's not how it works. US citizenship is seen through US laws alone. A person born here is 100% US citizen, regardless what other citizenships they hold.

And yet, I still respectfully disagree. The way I see it

1) according Constitution there are 2 groups of US citizens: NBC and Naturalized Citizens.
"United States Constitution Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States...";

2) according Constitution NBC and Naturalized Citizens are absolutely equal except one thing: only NBC can be POTUS;

3) according The Oath of Allegiance Naturalized Citizens are subject ONLY to the US jurisdiction. Persons wishing to be Naturalized US citizens have to give The Oath of Allegiance to the US, renounce and abjure any foreign jurisdiction and be subject of ONLY the US jurisdiction. These words - renounce and abjure any foreign jurisdiction - are THE KEY. It means that ONLY one jurisdiction is allowed for Naturalized Citizens - ONLY the US jurisdiction (it was a clear intention of framers - not to have any foreign influence on US citizens);

4) because according Constitution citizens of both groups are equal (except for being able to become POTUS) NBC, exactly as Naturalized Citizens, have to be subject ONLY to the US jurisdiction. This requirement is automatically performed for persons born to 2 married US citizens (or to a single, unmarried US citizen) - so there is no need to give The Oath of Allegiance; if such babies also born in the US, they become not just US citizens - they are NBC;

5) as a result of said above persons born in the US to married parents who are a foreigner and a US citizen (this is exactly Mr. Obama's situation) cannot be NBC US citizens because they are subject to 2 jurisdictions at birth (not ONLY to the US jurisdiction). Such persons can become US citizens only through the process of NATURALIZATION. After that they of course CANNOT be NBC.

Obama, became Naturalized at the age of 18 when his dual-citizenship status "expired" even though he did not have to take the Oath of Allegiance.

Of course it would be nice to have a judicial decision to finally put the question to rest.