US Continues ‘End Time’ Support of Maniacal Israeli's Murdering Arabs

Oh, give me a break... If Israel WANTED to kill innocent civilians don't you think they'd be carpet bombing they entire Gaza strip right now with dumb bombs rather than wasting relatively expensive laser-guided weapons? Do you think they'd be offering a 48 hour halt in their offensive to give Hamas their 435352th chance to STOP launching missles at them even though this puts them at a severe tactictal disadvantage by allowing them to regroup. So far it's been nothing but empty excuses and bleeding hearts for fools who deserve neither and are reaping what they've sown. Once again, if Hamas truly cared about the Palestinian people they'd stop using their residential neighborhoods as launch pads. They are still doing it so obviously they don't care. Hell, if you want to bring up civilian losses, what about the 11 & 5 yr old Palestinian girls killed by a Hamas rocket that misfired. Israel sent out 90000 text messages to people telling them to get away from Hamas facilities before the attacks. People trying to kill civilians do that all the time right?

[edit on 30-12-2008 by Necrosis]

I don't know, lately Israel Has been holding back. I guess they're the fed up with rockets hitting there homes. It looks like from what I hear and see, the Israelli's are saying "enough is enough, we are going to kill you all". As far as I'm concern, they can have there little war, murder there borthers and sisters. As Far as I'm concern, let the lousy religious zealots take hold and spread Hell on earth. Just one more reason why UFO's choose not to contact us.


Heres My question. How were the rockets getting into Gaza?

reply to post by sirbikesalot06

Heres My question. How were the rockets getting into Gaza?

Here's my answer. A) Smuggled in from Egypt using tunnels boring under the border. Or, B) Assembled in Gaza from innocent parts brought in openly.

The rockets have proved to be of low power - falling short of the apparent target - and of questionable force causing little damage and only 1 fatality.

That's why I liken the Hamas rockets to Fourth of July fireworks.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
There are some facts you are all ignoring.

1. Hamas broke the cease-fire and fired hundreds of rockets into Israel in a few days.
2. Hamas built the warehouses near civilian population as they don't care about civilian deaths knowing full well that Israel would eventually defend themselves.
3. Israel targetted Hamas and not civilians.
4. Any country including the US and Britain would defend themselves and retaliate against such rocket attacks.
5. Fairly low number of deaths caused by rocket attacks in Israel are irrelevant as Hamas intend to kill each time they fire and so they must be stopped.
6. All civilian deaths are a tragedy.
7. 1/3 of casualties are civilian and 2/3 are Hamas. Not too bad in comparison to USA's efforts in Afghanistan and Western Pakistan, and much less ratio of civilian deaths relative to militant deaths.
8. This would not have happened had Hamas stopped firing rockets.
9. Gaza has a border with Egypt to get supplies thru'
10. They use this to get weapons instead of essential supplies.
11. Israel are not responsible for looking after another state/country (Gaza)
12. Israel has the right to defend itself, including retaliations.

OK, logical conclusions drawn from these facts:
1. Hamas are to blame for not honouring a cease-fire, and are entirely to blame for all the deaths.
2. This tragedy would have been prevented had Hamas stopped hating Jews and lived in peace as civilised people.
3. Hamas only understand killing, and have no compassion even towards their own people in Gaza.
4. Israel responded in the only way Hamas understands, and so now has the mindset to destroy them as Hamas shows no rational behaviour. And why should Israel wait forever for Hamas to live in peace?! They have given them long enough.
5. The solution is for Hamas to stop firing rockets and then there can be peace. Simple as that. Just as the US have stated today.
6. If you don't conclude the same you are lacking logical and rational thinking. The most simple and obvious causes and solutions are correct.
7. Yes it's a humanatarian disaster if this continues, and if Iran supplies more rockets to Hamas and Hezbollah it will get worse. Israel may have to bomb Lebanon again, and maybe go to war with Syria and/or Iran with US and British support.
8. You know what, it will be the fault of the Arabs because they started the latest battles when we and Israel wanted peace. But Israel and the West will finish it.
9. China and Russia to get involved at their peril, and ours as well.

Now now, lets not cloud the issues with facts.

Here is the deal true believers, Hamas stops attacking and shows they can live in peace and all this nonsense stops.

Pretty simple actually.

I find it pretty funny that the rest of the world wants Isreal to have limitless patience, yet if their own countries were being attacked in the same way as Isreal their own tanks would be rolling.

However peace will not be found till there is as much zealotry for Peace as there is for War.

That's why I liken the Hamas rockets to Fourth of July fireworks.

Because 4th of July fireworks have a range of 40km... It doesn't matter if they're guided or not, the INTENT is there when they are firing them. The basic fact that they are unguided is pretty telling as they don't care who they hit and you idiots are trying to say ISRAEL is targeting civilians...

reply to post by Necrosis

Oh, give me a break . . . rather than wasting relatively expensive laser-guided weapons?

American taxpayers are paying for the ordinance used by the IDF.

Do you think they'd [IDF] be offering a 48 hour halt even though this puts them at a severe tactical disadvantage . .

Balderdash! The world has universally condemned the disproportional Israeli attack mostly aimed at Gaza civilians. It is pretty obvious this is a Likud election ploy paid for by the besieged Palestinians (and American taxpayers).

Israel sent out 90,000 text messages to people telling them to get away from Hamas facilities before the attacks. People trying to kill civilians do that all the time right?

Yes, the IDF does. This is for their American sycophants. This proves claims the IDF is knowingly murdering Gaza civilians.

reply to post by donwhite


Lets not forget that the other Muslim States want nothing to do with the Palestinians or Hamas either. The Gaza Strip has plenty of access through Egypt or through their harbors and they could get humanitarian supplies had they not alienated even their own Muslim neighbors. The 80 missiles and mortar rounds during the cease fire does not help them either. Their word is no good. They are liars.

Regardless of how bad Israel is behaving, the Palestinians are behaving worse. This speaks very poorly of those who support or defend the actions of either side. It is just like taking sides with the Crips or Bloods in the middle of a gang war. If you support either side you are wrong.

Genocide whether directed at the Palestinians or the Jews is just as evil; just as wrong. People who side with either side are just as wrong.

No person worth defending ever strapped a bomb to a child or fired a missile into a residential neighborhood. Only cowards and low life's hide their weapons in schools and hospitals. If there is a Hell there must be a special place of damnation reserved for people who use innocents as weapons and shields. There is likely a section for those who apologize for them or turn a blind eye as well.

I find it odd that the Palestinians who are supposedly such wonderful people will willingly strap a bomb to a child but won't risk anything to stop Hamas. If they fight back and stop Hamas, they have my support. Until then they are just Terrorists in sheep's clothing. By now their children are so brainwashed by Terrorists there is not much hope.

Originally posted by Necrosis
*snip*

Hamas counts on two groups for public support. First - the dimwitted who actually believe the rhetoric while any thinking person can see that Hamas willingly sacrifices Palestinian lives by living and launching attacks on Israel from civilian neighborhoods.

The second group are the anti-semites who could care less about the plight of the Palestinian people except as a means to an end in a quest to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth.

Mod edit: removed T and C violating quote.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by GAOTU789]

Originally posted by DavidU

In an interview with Reuters, Benjamin Netanyahu stated: "I think we want to make sure that the firing of rockets stops, but also that the capability to fire future rockets is also stopped." The rocket death toll since '02 is nineteen...

www.guardian.co.uk...

The deaths brought the tally of civilian fatalities from rocket strikes to 19 since 2002, when militants in Gaza first began firing missiles at Israeli towns.

...how anyone can defend Israel's actions is unfathomable.

*snip*It doesn't matter if they killed NOONE. If a country's citizens are being terrorized to the point where they are afraid to go outside, then that country has the RIGHT as well as the RESPONSIBILITY to defend its borders and the lives of its citizens. If you, living in the US, were forced to live in fear from constant missile attacks from Canada (as an example), would you not expect Bush to respond?

If diplomacy didn't work, would you expect an escalation?

Try to put yourself in the shoes of the Israelis and then ask yourself if you would honestly just say, "Oh, it's OK, they haven't killed that many people so we should sit idly by and watch."

I swear a lot of people on ATS are so narrow minded it's infuriating.

Courtesy is Mandatory. Please review this link

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 30-12-2008 by GAOTU789]

As for donwhite, you are anti-Israeli and anti-semetic to the point of being blind. An anon-ATS member posted on page 1 many points that attempt to show how this was all started by Hamas and yet you roundly ignored it by spouting some trash quotes which didn't deal with the issue at all.

Why don't you open up your eyes and wash the blind hatred from them?

You know, it's very easy constantly argue the point that the only reason the Palestinians are using terrorism is because of Israel's aggressions, and that Israel is perpetuating the cycle.

This is a very interesting (and often used) argument. However, lets take a look at the West Bank where Mahmoud Abbas has taken a distinctly more democratic and moderate approach then his terrorist predecessor, Yasser Arafat. How are Israel's relations with the West Bank at the moment? Pretty damn calm, and Israel is slowly removing settlers and settlements from that area. You know why? Because Abbas has shown Israel that they can trust him and don't need to worry about being stabbed in the back as soon as they let their guard down.

Truth of the matter is that the people in the Gaza strip SUPPORT terrorists and because of this reason they cannot be considered "innocent." If the people of Gaza were to stand up against Hamas, root it out of the Gaza Strip, and allow Abbas to establish order, I guarantee you that their lives, as well as the citizens of Israel, would be much better.

But, unfortunately, the people of the Gaza Strip make their own decision to continue endorsing terrorism and to continue this cycle which sees their livelihoods reduced to such squalor and depression.

Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by pluckynoonez

 

"US Continues ‘End Time’ Support of Maniacal Israeli's Murdering Arabs" Is this your title you wrote yourself, or...it just seems like it's from whatdoesitmean.com

Sorry about that. I admit to having made it up myself. After all that line is limited to s certain number of keystrokes. I had reference to the Evangelical Christians who usually believe in the Second Coming of Jesus. They read that into the Book of Revelations of Jesus Christ to John. Or Revelations.

They say they believe there will be a great battle between good and evil at Megiddo in Israel - the fantastic Battle of Armageddon - and that ultimately GOOD (God) will triumph. Then they also say they believe Jesus will reign over the Earth for 1000 years sitting on a golden throne in Jerusalem. Like an ancient oriental potentate. What they don’t like to say is that THEY - the faithful followers of Christ - will be given cities, kingdoms and principalities to RULE OVER. They SHARE in the spoils of War. In other words, they will get to KICK BUTTS in the Name of God! These people I charitably call “End Timers.”

[edit on 12/29/2008 by donwhite]

the end timers have it all wrong,heaven will not come to earth through mankind waring with each other, it will only come by the ceasation of hostilities,through knowledge,wisdom and understanding.

there is no justification for the massacering of civilians on both sides,and thier is no justification for using war as a means to aquire more terratory.

isreal was creating by war,by the forced removal of 2 million palastineans in the late 1940's and hence all the trouble since,but before that the jews had thier land removed,same story with the same results.
the holy land has been in constant war for thousands of years,no one actually understanding fighting with blood for territory is the most ungodly thing one can do,it always results in further hatred conflict division and so on.

it is long historical conflicts in the holy land and the world as a whole that creates situations such as the one we see now,the only way to end it is through negotiation,through acceptance of others creed and colour,share the lands,co exist instead of attempting to constantly steal them like animals do it terratorial spats.

i still get the distinct feeling the ais are stoking up all these troubles in order to cause further depopulation,they want to drive us into an endtimes frenzy of war and conflict,ignore it and thier deciet,do not fight each other,come together,fight them isntead,they are the great evil of the world!

I confess that I don't know all of the ends and outs of the Izzy-Pally conflict, so I am going to post what I believe has or is happening and someone here can point out my error and provide me with the correct info. I have been researching a bit and this is what I gather:

-The Romans invaded the land centuries ago and forced the jews to flee.

-In the interim, other arabs moved into the land.

- The Romans named the land Palestine.

- Jews moved to Europe and elsewhere, but decided that Palestine should be theirs and started moving in.

-Once the war broke out and hitler started PMS'ing, the Jews fled to Palestine in force.

-The people that were already living there took issue with this.

-Europe and the UN once again meddled and decided to take portions of the land from the people who were already living there and give it to the jewish refugees

- The people who were already living there became even more miffed.

- Several skirmishes and wars have broken out and the Jews claimed independence and formed the jewish state of Israel. The UN and developed nations have tried (yeah, right) to end the fighting and have, in the past, ordered Israelis to stop setting up encampments..which Israel has ignored.

-The palestinians have used terrorism and attacks on civilians to try and drive out the Israelis...and Israelis have done the same.

-Palestinians are now held within the borders of the Gaza strip. Their water, food supplies, and medicine are being cut off.

- not all Israelis feel this way. It seems to be the zionists who want to exterminate the palestinians.

Is that about right? Please give me a little feedback so I can formulate a response, depending on if the above is true or not.

If I was a palestinian I would also use archaic weapons to fire upon my aggressor. ISRAEL IS THE AGGRESSOR.

If anyone would like to debate me on the history of palestinian/israel conflict please U2U me. We can set up a PUBLIC debate and allow for all of the real facts to be revealed.

I am getting tired of seeing biased untruths fill up ATS with ridiculous threads. Then, when I see another ridiculous uninformed Israel/Palestinian thread, we can refer to our debate thread.

There are wrongs on both sides, but the fact that PROPHECY and ZIONISM contradict an ideology of peace, it must be represented as such.

If someone moved in on your town and started oppressing you and your family to the point of starvation and death, what would you do?

Yes, unfortunately, it has been going on so long that now extremist have been able to indoctrinate the youth. But WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Israel policy is the PROBLEM!

Anyone want to debate this?

AAC

I avidly depose any 'terrorist' method of getting what you want - but as someone who has been to Isreal / Palestine many times - and not in a 'hippy - increase the peace' - capacity - the way Isreal treats the Palestinian population in Gaza is appalling and in NO way justified.

In the UK we suffered a terrorist threat for years at the hands of the IRA and associated organisations. We didn't mobilise our airforce and destroy half of Dublin in what would only be describable as revenge.

If you have actually been to this area and seen for yourself you will know the hate and contempt that most uniformed Israeli soldiers manning the border actually have for the Palestinians. Granted, it's a two way street, they get pelted with stones and insults all day from Palestinians, but the difference is, the Palestinians arn't pretending to be some whiter than white 'good guy' and receiving millions, if not billion dollars in arms and hardware from sponsors such as the US as they are seen as a responsible power that can enforce stability in the region.

Open your eyes - Isreal are NOT a force for stability. They are equally as aggressive as any arab nation in the area.

I have personally seen Palestinians rounded up and beaten for no apparent reason on the border by heavily armed IDF - is this the action of the army of a nation state? Or does it have more in common with the kind of thuggery we in the USA and UK condemn on the same level as terrorism.

3 or 4 years ago, I was so angry everytime I heard about a suicide bomber in Isreal - and I abhored the actions of the Palestinians. Now my opinion has changed to be honest.

View Gaza and Israel as nation states - both have a sovereign right to defend themselves and protect their basic human rights.

Gaza doesn't have what we would recognise as an army, airforce etc - it has Hammas. In a situation where a nation state has food, medicine and free trade denied to it - even during the 'ceasefire' - I feel they have every right to retaliate martially.

If Gaza was mobilising conventional forces against Israel, fighting pitched battles, and settling its differences as western forces have for centuries - would we be so outraged as we are at suicide bombings and rocket attacks? I don't think so.

My point is - with Gaza not having the ability to fight a pitched battle, or mobilise a conventional force, what exactly are they meant to do to defend themselves, threaten Israel when diplomacy has failed other than what they are doing?

It may be a controversial point of view, but I think that the so called 'terrorist' activities of Palestinians are not terrorist activities at all - they are all the Palestinians can do bar roll over and accept the repressive regime Israel is indisputably offering them.

We here the 'suicide bombing' 'hijacking' 'rocket attack' banded around with the word 'terrorism' so frequently in the media we regard them as one and the same. They are not. The former can be legitimate methods of warfare in some situations.

And for those who say that these methods of waging war cost innocent lives - well turn on your TV - conventional methods of waging war have a much higher cost in civilian life - and whether civilians are targeted or not is irrellevent - both sides realise civilians will die before they act, yet still act - so the civilian deaths are deliberate.

Also - Israel know very well that all these latest attacks will do is further polarise the Palestinians against them and breed hate - they no this isn't a solution, it's nothing more than revenge - politically motivated at election time.

I think the world has well and truly had enough of Israel - this is a bridge too far.

Originally posted by donwhite

That's why I liken the Hamas rockets to Fourth of July fireworks.

"fireworks". Don't you think its over the edge to store you're "fireworks" in hospital and schools ? Don't you think its very unresponsible to shote off you're "fireworks" close to people ?

Now as Hamas ALSO stands up for welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospitals, i do wonder why they are not living up to the reason why so many voted for them ?

Why does their "services" not include security for their people, just like many israeliens have access to variated forms of security constructions ?

Could be because Hamas is a group of charlatans !

Originally posted by flymetothemoon

Now as Hamas ALSO stands up for welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospitals, i do wonder why they are not living up to the reason why so many voted for them ?

Why does their "services" not include security for their people, just like many israeliens have access to variated forms of security constructions ?

Could be because Hamas is a group of charlatans !

You forget, Hamas is an Israeli construct.

Dutty_rag you were spot on with that comment.

reply to post by flymetothemoon

"fireworks". Don't you think its over the edge to store your "fireworks" in hospital and schools? Don't you think its very irresponsible to shoot off you're "fireworks" close to people ?

Who says the Hamas rockets were stored in hospitals and schools? I’m pretty sure without knowing it was NOT Hamas. As I pointed out above, the population density in Gaza is 12,500 per square mile. Compare to W-DC at 9,400 people per square mile. Gaza is not filled with huge open spaces. Can you reply to that?

Now as Hamas ALSO stands up for welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospitals, I do wonder why they are not living up to the reason why so many voted for them?

Reflecting back that in '06 the Gaza residents did have the much ballyhooed PNA - Palestinian National Authority - on the ballot but in a free and open election choose the Hamas to represent them. We denounced the people of Gaza before the ink was dry. We declared WAR on those people. The IDF is our agent for this War.

I think a man named Salam Fayyad is the current PNA Prime Minister over the West Bank. The PNA was a LAP DOG for the Israeli and US combination.

The US has started this TERRORIST list thing. It’s mainly a smokescreen for us and our allies. Which are very few by the way. Anyone we don’t like - ie who does not suck up to us - we label a terrorist. Its ALL our way or NO way. Did not our own illustrious president say that?

Yet we Americans have killed 10s of 1000s of innocent people in Iraq and Afghan - up to 3 million in Vietnam - but we are somehow excused from the TERRORIST label. Maybe that is why the civilized world ignores us? Although Americans did not like to hear it, Reverend Wright had it right!

As long as it is true, “one man’s hero is another man’s terrorist” we will have what we LOVE to call terrorism. We’ll either get smart or go broke and I don’t know which it will be. Right now I’d bet on going broke.

Why does their "services" not include security for their people, just like many Israelites have access to validated forms of security constructions? Could be because Hamas is a group of charlatans!

Sometimes we are called on to make hard choices. Would you rather die standing up or live on your knees? Recall New Hampshire’s license tag motto “Live Free of Die!”

[edit on 12/30/2008 by donwhite]

I think to add to what I said before : a quick question for everyone.

How many people would REALLY risk their life, possibly never seeing their family again - even give up their life if we talk about suicide bombers?

My point is not to say these people are brave or some kind of heroes, my point is that they are clearly desperate and at the very end of the line. There is no hope at all in Gaza, no future, no possible resolution to the way people are forced to live.

Do people think that the men and women who join Hammas and fire off rockets and blow themselves up do so through some misguided notion of Islam as we may have seen elsewhere in the world? Do people really think these men and women do this because they thrive on chaos and want to increase the mayhem?

They do this because when you put yourself in the shoes of the man on the street they have no choice.

They don't have a government with M16's and Predator Drones to stand up for their rights and liberties. They don't have control of vast resources they can use as leverage to improve their plight. They have literally nothing.

I can't imagine how bad things would have to be in order for me to feel so desperate I'd want to blow myself up to try and send a message to the world and the people who oppress me in a vain hope that they might be scared to 'give a little' - probably even knowing the moment I blow myself up that it will probably not achieve anything - only hanging on to a fragile sliver of hope.

That is desperation.

The people of Israel may live in fear of bombers, rockets, a nuclear strike - but their fear isn't a million miles from where we all sit in the world today - we all fear similar occurrences in the world as it stands right now.

You can not honestly tell me that because Israelis fear 'terrorism' they are somehow on par with the way most Palestinians feel - and thus justified in this egregious and disproportionate attack that in reality is nothing less than bullying.


I also want to make clear that I am neither pro Israel or pro Palestine. I'm simply looking at the situation from an objective point of view and telling it how it is - something I think many here should learn to practice.

Also very god point about the west in Afghanistan / Iraq. I think the point has been done to death and the reality is it is a massive case of dual standards, but history is written by the victors.

What's more interesting is this notion we have that suicide bombing, rocket attacks - basically any action taken by any group not belonging to a sovereign state - is 'terrorism'.

This one word has been used to differentiate good from bad since 9/11 and I think it's time we stopped sticking all actions into the big political garbage bin definition that is 'terrorism' and start looking at things for what they actually are.

- Slightly off topic - but how many incidences have we had since 9/11 of people being hauled in by cops under 'anti terror laws' for crimes that were previously difficult to prove/prosecute/investigate - but well and truly under the criminal/civil umbrella rather than the political/terror umbrella. In the UK the police can now even search anyone without reason under 'anti terror legislation' - searching 15 year old teens for alcohol under 'anti terror legislation' - sure - they have the potential to terrorise us all.

If a group is taking militaristic action on behalf of a democratically elected government (e.g. in the case of Hammas) this isn't a terrorist act.

So Israel may well be justified in reacting to an act of war, but please, don't let them hide behind some notion that they are standing up against terrorism - ask just why Gaza wishes to declare war.

American War of Independence anyone - If the English had despatched 10x as many troops as they actually did, and slaughtered the rebels, without the French and Spanish protecting them - would they have been justified in 'putting down the aggressive terrorists' too?

Can we view Gaza as people fighting for freedom against an oppressive Israel bent on their control and perhaps destruction?