Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by Rumbottlerenovator


Dear Rumy,

You are correct that the water level has increased since the swarm. The increase is contray to the norm, which usually has levels decreasing at the end of December and the begining of January, before levelling out in February. The rise does not seem to be only due to precipitation. The previous winter had heavy snow and in the early fall there was some, but around the time of the swarm there was no major weather to explain increase. Therefore, the water is entering the lake underground. There are thremal vents on the lake bottom which have been mapped, and there must be an increase in this volume. There has been a rise in temperatures in the north end of the lake which seems to confirm this. Whether there has been new vents created after the swarm remains to be seen. That's if they send out the sub in the spring. They got some new money now. I'll get back to the point, I think it's safe to say that there is a greater exchange of water from the hot aquifer into the lake.
So if my hypothesis is that the danger lies in the lake inundating the aquifer, shouldn't the rising water disprove the possibility of this happening? That would be true, except we're talking about Yellowstone. A place so unbelievable, the first stories of it's features were met with disbelief. No one could believe water "flowed upward" or rather, that water erupted. Yellowstone is quite unique. From Wikipedia, "About a thousand known geysers exist worldwide, roughly half of which are in Yellowstone National Park, United States."
Yellowstone works in a completely different manner than almost every other water table in the world. Most springs emerge from the ground by way of gravity under relatively small pressures. It's all about pressure. At this moment super-heated water, by way of pressure, is erupting up through the bottom of the lake. This could change given the right set of circumstances. We all have been made aware that Yellowstone has gone through a significant uplift over the last few years. It has also had years of subsidence. It's like a set of lungs expanding and contracting. However, Yellowstone is not elastic. This pulsing has caused fracturing and made paths for water to flow into and explode up through the mantle. Yellowstone at this moment is expanded and full of water. The critical point will be when the aquifer experiences lower pressures after a drought or major reduction. The channels in which the water now flows are widening through pressure and erosion. This will increase the total volume which can flow through these fissures in the geyers system. If there is a major quake along the Huckleberry Ridge fault in the lake which causes a large fracture, this will allow a change in direction of flow and allow greater pressure into geysers network. The pressure will create new channels and expand faulting. It will cause substaintial uplift. The eruption would start after segements of the mantle are undermined to a point at which they break free and sink into magma chamber. This creates pockets and would trap gas, creating expansion and more faulting and flow, which results in a cascade until the pressure reaches a critical mass. Another large quake causes a pressure differential, gases escape from magma. Then boom.

Water is at this moment venting into the lake. But that does not exclude the possibility that water is also flowing down through other faults and into the auqifer. There could be places were water is drawn down into the aquifer and is being pumped back up through a nearby vent. It could be a the circulatory network just like our cardiovascular system. The thing that makes Yellowstone unique is the water. And the water is the key to understanding it. It's not just about the magma. It's about the interplay of all the classical elements, fire, air, earth, and water.

reply to post by PuterMan


Dear Puterman,

I've got the soundfile in the background as I write. I really shouldn't be listening to it. It is eerie.
As I've told you, I'm practically computer illiterate. I really like the map you provided along side my crude hand-drawn map on my white board. I was really hoping to see it with the caldera from the map I linked. I know we briefly got into the Hudson Bay part of my hypothesis, I wanted to stick mainly to Yellowstone. But I wonder if you could make a map of the bay using the three circles I describe in my You Tube videos. I wish I could. I think you could get accurate sizes and show the geometeric relationship like I've demonstated.
I really wish I could convince you and Shakirawa and recruit you. I only got a computer because I believe my hypothesis to be true and needed to communicate it with the world. Believe me. If I could find the flaw, I'd give ait up in a minute. I was content with a typewriter. It's funny that both Shakirawa and myself noted that half the world's geyers are at Yellowstone. I hadn't read his post before I posted my last one.
I also wish I hasn't got distracted by the "pipecleaners" at the LKWY. I was on all sides of the issue. Sometimes I was just being the Devil's advocate for another option. My rational mind tells me it's a fried component. That's why I asked if the new variation changed the situation.
You can find the locations of the caldera in Hudson Bay on the following crude demonstration. Remember, I only got a computer because I want to share my ideas and find assistance in proving them. When I watch my earliest videos, I am mortified by how primitive they are. I hated doing them. When I'm speaking and nervous, I can sound completely idiotic and I mix up terms. It was all raw. I was hoping that the obviousness of the circles, and their relationships, would make the whole thing self-evident.

www.youtube.com...

I know it seems fantastic to think that there could be calderas of the size I am claiming. But in our solar system there are bigger volcanoes. On Mars, Mount Olympus Mons is bigger than Everest.

dsc.discovery.com...

I understand why geologists dismiss my ideas, it's because there is no volcanic rock around Hudson Bay to confirm my findings. But it's hard to find what is no longer there. My claim is that the material was ejected into space. Not possible you say. Jupiter's moon Io has a volcano which has plumes which travel 400 km above the surface. Of course, it helps that Io has low gravity and low atmospheric pressure.

geology.rockbandit.net...

But the size of the eruptions at Hudson Bay could have easily ejected material through our atmosphere and into space. That's only a mere 100 kms or so. Oh yes, there would have to be some volcanic material left around the edges of the caldera. No. There was only a small amount, most of it was blasted away in the explosion. And the remainder was eroded and washed away under the glacier. Glaciers ride on a thin layer of super-heated water. Damn water, it caused the eruptions and then erased the evidence.
Well, I think I got it all out of my system. No wait. The circle of quakes in the west. If it was an impact, it would have caused an extinction event. Maybe the largest ever. But evidence is mounting that that one was caused by, you guessed it, a volcano. Or rather, a massive volcanic flood.

query.nytimes.com...

It could have been an impact which happened before life began and caused no extinction. It would have probably caused an ice age. Around 2.3 billion years ago was earth's longest one. The whole earth was totally frozen.

g'night

reply to post by Shirakawa


I was merely saying "Is this OF singing?". Note IS. I was not stating that it was.

There are of course numerous geysers as can be seen on the web cams.

reply to post by PuterMan


Speaking of geysers, have a look at this video I made:

reply to post by Shirakawa


Nice job with that vid!

The YS thumbnails, have been down all morning, I haven't been able to see any monitors.

There are nice EQ's, along with numerous little ticks, showing best on YJC starting at about 2100 hrs MST 2 Mar 09 continuing through about 0500 hrs MST - maybe more to come.

They seem to be centred north of Yellowstone Lake in the area of the 'second' swarm in January

reply to post by Shirakawa


Neat! Interesting to see the number of changes in wind direction through the video.

Now that would be fun to do anywhere. Must have taken some time.

reply to post by PuterMan


I wrote a little Java program to automate the downloading process of still image webcams (or otherwise any other dynamically changing remote file). I could have never downloaded those manually With this you just write the url, the update time and let the program sit working indefinitely.
At the moment I'm retrieving images from Redoubt webcams in Alaska, but their update rate is slow compared to the Old Faithful webcam in Yellostone, and they would make for a much worser video.

[edit on 2009/3/3 by Shirakawa]

Good sized quakes have happened, but not being put on the USGS site. Looks like lots of activity around the area. Thumbnails back up.


www.isthisthingon.org...

In my opinion (until it's confirmed) the quakes occurred near YJC station directly north of Yellowstone Lake, in the Sour Creek dome area. They're moving north, continuing the trend of past days (by looking at the EQ map here).

reply to post by Shirakawa


The quakes of the last two weeks have had a similar pattern to the swarm. They start near the north of the lake and migrate northward. And I must say that the maps from the U of Utah are never updated within a reasonable timeframe. From the website, "Maps are updated within about 5 minutes of an earthquake or once an hour."
I've never seen this happen, so why is it written there if it's not true. The 2+ quake in the north happened over 11 hours ago and still nothing. If it was 2.5+ it would have shown on the USGS. I bet they peg it at 2.4, and I am not as adept as yourself at gaging them. But I think I can tell the general sizes.
And beg my pardon for adding another thought about the pressure in the aquifer with regards to my response to Rumbottler. I had great comfort in thinking that a change in pressure wouldn't happen until the water table subsided. But just as I was drifting off to sleep, I thought of one other possiblity that would change pressure suddenly and dramtically. A small, to medium sized hydro-thermal eruption. This could further destabilize the Huckleberry fault in the lake at the same time.
I liked the video as well.



[edit on 3-3-2009 by Robin Marks]

reply to post by Robin Marks


Before all that worldwide attention they got just after the first days of the 2008-2009 earthquake swarm, earthquakes did use to be promptly added in an automated manner no more than 5 minutes after their occurring time. Then the YVO staff ramped up the sensivity of their systems and started to add earthquakes much slower than normal. Now earthquakes appear to be systematically added at least 24 hours later. Now that things pretty much settled down, I don't think they're understaffed.

I suspect they're slowing down the flow of information (not censoring) to discourage individuals like Chris Sanders from posting "eruption emergency" videos on Youtube upon watching realtime earthquake lists on the Internet.
For those "who know" though, the data is still there, just not under the sunshine.

By the way, USGS also has a M1.0+ list for USA only: click here.

EDIT:
They just added one of the last EQs:

2.1 2009/03/02 20:53:25 44.713N 110.287W 4.2 44 km (27 mi) SW of Cooke City-Silver Gate, MT

[edit on 2009/3/3 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by Shirakawa


Thanks for the background information. They should remove the statement of update times if it is not still the policy. I don't even care what the policy is, I just want consistency. Thanks for the link.

They finally posted the locations of a couple quakes and they are in the same loctation as the secondary swarm that started on January 09. The first is one is on the faultline of the Yellowstone caldera.

Other two earthquakes occurred near the caldera rim have been added to the list.
By the way, by looking at the webicorders, a few other minor earthquakes occurred during the last hours in the Yellowstone lake area, probably where the first EQ swarm began.

[edit on 2009/3/3 by Shirakawa]

So.. did you guys miss my post?

Here:

Wow, I just read your post, and had a classic lightbulb moment. I came across this site a couple months ago. It seems to elaborate on a theory of a giant wheel of vortex spots in the western U.S.

Check it out, the circle is a perfect match, although a good full picture I can't find.

www.vortexmaps.com...

www.vortexmaps.com...

It makes sense that 'vortexes' would fall on activity hotspots.

Please check it out, it is a perfect match on the circle.

reply to post by Shirakawa


Dear Shirakawa,

Sorry for misspelling your name previously. There is indeed activity at the lake and at the secondary swarm location. Things seem to be popping along. You've been watching for quite some time before the swarm, I know there are lots of quakes at Yellowstone, but do you think this is something to watch? Or should I go watch a movie like I planned? I have heard the geologist say that another swarm is possible. These areas could be just experiencing aftershocks as the ground readjusts and settles. It's just very interesting and hard to pull away from when the webicorders are jumping.

If YellowStone erupted, it couldn't be worse then Krakatoa. It was 13,000 times more powerful then the bomb dropped on Japan. equal to 200 megatons of TNT. Four times stronger then Tsar Bomba, the strongest nuclear device ever detonated. It was heard up to 3,000 miles away. It was the most mssive explosion ever recorded...

Originally posted by AntiConspirator
If YellowStone erupted, it couldn't be worse then Krakatoa. It was 13,000 times more powerful then the bomb dropped on Japan. equal to 200 megatons of TNT. Four times stronger then Tsar Bomba, the strongest nuclear device ever detonated. It was heard up to 3,000 miles away. It was the most mssive explosion ever recorded...

I hope that was sarcasm because surely you read something about this caldera before posting, right?. In case not, under the worst-case scenario the caldera has the potential to release 1,000 megatons of TNT.

While Krakatoa was a mere 200 megatons of TNT.

5 times larger.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by nydsdan]

reply to post by Robin Marks


I just downloaded the seismic trace from YLA station (which is near the lake) and from spectrum and audio analysis I see that along with the minor earthquakes I mentioned, there have been a certain number of micro earthquakes (barely visible on webicorders), as if they were in a swarm. This looks like the moments before the beginning of the 2008-2009 EQ swarm, but at a lower magnitude.

EDIT: from the earthquake thumbnails, I see that another minor one (maybe 1.2-1.6 magnitude) occurred in the lake area half an hour ago. Too bad that GEE servers don't seem to be available now.

[edit on 2009/3/4 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by Shirakawa


Dear Shirakawa,

Since the Recent Yellowstone earthquake map doesn't not update immediately, I am guessing at the locations. But it would appear that the activity is happening in three areas. In the lake, north of the lake and along the northern rim of the Yellowstone Caldera. What concerns me is that these areas are on top of two major faultlines. It is evident that both the Yellowstone Caldera and the Huckleberry Ridge Caldera are experience quakes on their northern rims. I imagine it like the lid on a pot rumbling under pressure. However, Yellowstone's lid is not one solid piece. The northern part of Huckleberry creates a hinge. It seems as if this northern piece of the Yellowstone Caldera is acting like pressure release valve. I'll stop there, I think you get the idea.
One last note of interest, the lake. After some precipitation and above freezing temps, the lake levels are rising steadily. With the increase in volume, there is more pressure on the lake bottom due to the extra mass. I think it's reasonable to assume that this trend will only continue as the stronger sun melts the snow, and with the return of the spring rain. Interesting stuff.
If these small quakes continue, it would appear to be a micro-swarm. A "Mini-me" swarm for all you Austin Powers fans.