We Won't Lose the 2nd Ammendment...Yet

oh, btw... I hesitated to post this, but any mod is free to remove this & warn me (this is opinion, just stated in a "hot" way"): keep your nationalist extremist speech for yourself. Keep your oral diarrhea for your fellow listeners of your faith. Keep praying your CNN god. Keep listening to your "clean" politicians. Keep believing your McDo's and #ing Burger Kings. Keep thinking that your country is the best. Keep thinking that Europe is lame.

When you will open your eyes, you'll realize that except your stupid nationalist pride, you have nothing at all to advertise outside your sad borders! Your country is failing. It was once great, it is now only pathetic. It is now a shadow of itself.

And whine all the whine you can: I am still proud and happy to be a "liberal european". At least my government doesn't force me into some kind of thinking!

Even with a Democratic Majority it will be hard to pass such heavy tax on guns measures thru the Congress against heavy NRA lobbying unless: 1) we get another dometic terrorist attack using guns (ie, Columbine), 2) the federal govt gets desperate for tax revenues as a result of the failing economy (hmmm) OR the Executive Branch (ATFE) reinterprets existing laws (I am not going to tell them how to do it - so I will stop here).

reply to post by SpookyVince


vince,
I dont watch CNN here. We call it Chicken Noodle News. Dont care much for Fox News as well.

Not impressed with NATO forces either as they twiddled thier thumbs during the Yugloslavia mess in the 1990s. Europe fiddled for years on this one...right in your back door.

There is something very unsettling ...questionable about a government who will train you to pick up a gun for them, to fight their wars and conflicts for them, but not trust you with a gun of your own. There is something highly suspect about such a government....or body politic.
And I also know that government or the body politic finances public education. ...the trail is pretty difficult to not see how the dots are connected.
Here with the mentality of many people coming out of public school...I ask myself what they are teaching about the founding fathers and thier thinking if so few seem to know this history...that we are to not trust government with our rights and libertys but constantly watch them for mischief.

As to your government forcing you into some kind of thinking..I think you are beyond that by your behavior and conduct on this thread.

You come across as do many here who have taken a big bite out of the apple. A expression of entitlement at the expense of others.

Americans cherish their rights ...those who know what they are ...which is becoming a smaller and smaller number once public education gets done with them.

However...we do not respond well to those who speak from a point of ranting and entitlement..or guilt training...guilt techniques. Sorry Vince..not interested in it.

Vince...not all of us here are emotional train wrecks as you are wont to demonatrate by your posts. Dont waste your time or ours by such expressions of moral superiority. We are not interested in it . Some of us actually know the history of Europe going back to the middle ages and some of us beyond that. We do not find Europe to be the shining beacon on the hill. No thanks. We are not interested.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

SpookyVince, you ask if I have ever been to Belgium. No. Have you ever been an American citizen? Okay, I was wrong to criticize Belgium citizens. I'm sure they are good people. But for you to criticize Americans and our beliefs and convictions is wrong. What we do and believe is none of your business my friend. Brainwashed? It seems the only one in this back-and-forth conversation, between you and me, that is brainwashed is the European liberal who is anti-gun. Where did you learn that? At a liberal European university or at the NATO Institute for Peace? If anybody is brainwashed by philosophy, it is you Spooky. You may not have land to hunt on anymore (did your government take control over it?), but we have plenty to hunt on and we do here in the States. It is a blessed heritage that many Americans love and cherish.

The initial speculative question that I posed revolved around how Obama will go about removing guns and our rights to own guns. He himself has been an advocate of removing guns to some degree, and he has mentioned it often. The question was concerning how he would accomplish it. I offered a possible scenario and wanted feedback from other intelligent people who are concerned about losing our rights. It had nothing to do with some liberal across the Atlantic preaching to we Americans about how bad we are for owning guns. The nerve!!! This whole episode with you has encouraged me to go out and buy another gun for the pride of the old red, white, and blue. Thanks for compelling me to buy another gun, fund a gun company so they stay in business longer, and irritate gun-haters like you. Appreciate it Buddy.

reply to post by orangetom1999


Amen!!! People like you are hard to find today. You are right. The numbers are dwindling quickly. Keep on!

reply to post by Survivorman1969


Survivorman,

Be very careful about the body politic and hunting. The assumption is very often made that the 2nd Amendment is about hunting. The body politic will try very quickly to focus on the placebo of hunting for the 2nd Amendment justification....with the position that hunting does not require ownership of handguns ..certain rifles..etc etc. The 2nd Amendment says nothing about hunting. It is about the necessity of a free state.. by a well regulated militia...through the keeping and bearing of arms by the people.

Nothing there about hunting. I am not against hunting at all. I am just saying be very careful of the body politic ...they will try to use or misuse the placebo of hunting to ban handguns and rifles of certain kinds and eventually all firearms. I have seen them do this in committees...switch the emphasis to hunting and not the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

Thinking people know that the 2nd Amendment says nothing about hunting. Any politician or committee using such a debate point is misrepresenting the public on this issue. They are phoneys.

Hope this helps you. Watch for this fingerprint among many people trying to debate the 2nd Amendment. They simply dont know and have not thought it through...on both sides..pro and con. IF you dont know it is very easy for cons to get over on you using or misusing the issue of hunting.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by SpookyVince



spookyvince, dear friend

please read this.home.scarlet.be...


some interesting quotes from link.

E. Evolution of crime after the introduction of the Gun Ban.
The Gun Ban was implemented early June 2006.
The official crime statistics of the Federal Police indicate a sudden and significant
increase of crime in 2006.
This increase was in contrast with the decrease of crime we had seen in the 3
years before the introduction of the Gun Ban.
Increase of crime during 2006 compared to 2005 :
• total crime : + 4,5 %
• Rapes : + 8 %
• Burglary : + 13 %
• Assaults : + 5,5 %
• Violent deaths (homicide + manslaughter + unintentional killing) : + 7 %

and i find this interesting, quote from you..

I live in Belgium. Even though we have still at the moment no government, and that's because our politics suck, I can tell you this: NOBODY needs a gun here. NO ONE. We don't have guns. Only the cops and some really bad people do. And you know what? I can leave my car unlocked at night, and I can leave my house unlocked. And I am safe.

and from the article.

II. General public
The quality magazine "Knack" organised a poll about the gun ban in February 2007 : 88% voted for a modification of the gun ban to make it less strict, 12 % voted to not
change the gun ban.

and THIS...hahahahah.

In practice the owners of guns do not respect the new legislation.
Originally they all had to present their guns for destruction or registration by November 2006 to the Police. Only 150.000 guns (on a total of 2.000.000) guns were presented. So only 7,5 % of the guns were timely handed over to the police, 92,5 % of the weapons were not handed in.
The Government saw no other possibility than to prolong the time period to hand in the guns until June 2007. But also today, nearly no new guns are handed in for registrationor destruction.

sounds to me like your fellow countrymen DO want their guns, and are willing to break the law to keep them

best of luck to you friend

Maybe I misphrased some things. I reckon I was never clear about this enormous difference: people don't go out with their guns. There are indeed a part of the population with a handgun or a pistol. It is in nearly all cases in a closet, in a drawer in the bedroom, some hidden place, and in most cases, no ammo ready. My father had 2 guns. Constantly unloaded.

And hunting weapons are a totally different matter.

Nevertheless: I am 100% pro a ban. Arguments in favour of a ban are as numerous and as good, at least, as those against the ban.

And trust me: I have been aggressed once with a gun pointed on my head. Whether or not I would have one or not wouldn't have changed it in the first place. I have been robbed and beaten, and that's it. If I had a gun, that would have likely ended in a slaughter of a man: me or him, if not both. I'm only glad he didn't USE it!

Originally posted by SpookyVince
I have been aggressed once with a gun pointed on my head. Whether or not I would have one or not wouldn't have changed it in the first place.

So a ban of any sort would have made a difference?

Unless I'm mistaken there are already numerous bans on "agressing", robing and pointing guns at people. Doesnt seem like any of them worked in your favor. What makes you think a ban on the device itself would work any better?

It would actually be illegal to prohibitively or punitively tax ammunition or wepons becouse it would interfere with the exercise of the 2nd amendment.

excessive taxation would certainly be an infringement....

Unless I'm mistaken there are already numerous bans on "agressing", robing and pointing guns at people. Doesnt seem like any of them worked in your favor. What makes you think a ban on the device itself would work any better?

Agree with thisguyrighthere. There are indeed numerious bans and controls on guns. It has not made much difference. Neither has more police for which most cities and neighborhoods cannot afford.

I will be going out later today and carrying my revolver with me....Loaded. I have been doing it for many years now.

I am very pro gun. I do not trust a government to have guns and not the public citizen. I find something very morally questionable about a government who would train and arm me to fight their dirty wars for them and then not trust me with a gun at home.

In like manner of "what doesnt make good nonsense" I dont trust such a government with money...as well as guns. This should be quite clear to the general public. I have to maintain some kind of a budget...why cannot they. So why would I ever trust my government with my rights to a gun..when they obviously cannot be trusted with moneys. Common sense people.

Government is a money whore...and you want to trust them with our rights to possess/own firearms..of any type?? I mean to tell you folks....one has to go to public school to get this stupid. People on their own natural abilities are not this stupid without a government school/television education....dumbing them down. Translate that ...making them an emotional train wreck.

Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!! Jerry!!!!
Maury!!!! Maury!!!! Maury!!!!
Oprah!!!! Oprah!!! Oprah!!!


Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 30-12-2008 by orangetom1999]