Do Nuclear Bombs Exist?

Originally posted by lunarminer
Take a look at the bomb footage. Then go look at movies from the time period, pick a high budget SciFi film like War of the Worlds. I know that War of the Worlds was almost 10 years after the Hiroshima bomb. That is my point, Hollywood didn't have CG back then, the effects are cheap and fake. There is no way that they could have faked a mushroom cloud like that in 1945. Take a look at the atomic bomb footage from War of the Worlds, it doesn't compare to the real thing.

Here is one example from 1941, 4 years BEFORE the bomb.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


lethereaderunderstand, The problem I see with your argument is that you're trying to apply a broad concept to a specific subject.

You argue that because no one has really seen a nuclear explosion, that they don't exist, yet there are many experiences that many people do not acquire, but trust to be real.

I have never seen a person be shot dead before, but the news says it happens all the time, how am I to know that there is not some mass conspiracy to make me afraid of the establishment that has guns that could kill me?

I don't even know if bullets could kill because I've never seen bullets kill someone.

You see, you can't just say that the argument is irrelevant when the factors that apply to "I've never seen a nuclear explosion" also apply to things like "I've never seen a plane crash", "I've never seen death", "I've never seen natural birth".

Saying it's irrelevant and then throwing the "it's your opinion" statement around isn't going to help make your argument, but I commend you on the research you have done, you are the only one who has made any effort to try to prove that nuclear weapons don't exist.

But let us ask now, if Nuclear Bombs don't exist, why would the government lie about them? If the government was going to lie about a weapon that could cause massive damage, why wouldn't they lie about a weapon that, when it hits, destroys only designated targets, eradicates all living organisms, while maintaining a stable environment for occupation?

That seems like a much better mythical weapon to me to lie about and would require just as much resources to lie about that one, as it would cost to lie about nuclear weapons... but then that's my opinion.

I believe nuclear weapons are real, history is the strongest evidence I can provide and I think it supports me well.

Shattered OUT...

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Wait, there was absolutely NOTHING about that video that could possibly indicate that the effects of an atomic weapon could have been manufactured in film with their current state of technology.

It's one thing to have a bunch of airplane models with tiny spinning motors flying around and with smoke coming out of them, it's a whole other thing to re-create a credible, realistic looking nuclear explosion... in 1945.

There was nothing special about the video.

Shattered OUT...

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Excellent example. I gave you a star for that one. Too bad that the soundtrack was just music, otherwise we could have heard the sound effects guy making buzzy airplane noises.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


I have seen everyone of those films and not one of them has a realistic effect that I would mistake for the real thing.

I have also seen dozens of clips of atomic explosions, dozens. They are intricate, detailed, the fireball has thousands of textured strands, colors, bands, rings, etc.

I have seen some good CG but nothing like what I see in a real atomic detonation sequence. It's proof enough to me.

Also, I am old enough to remember fallout warnings. We got them on a regular basis, every time Russia or China detonated a bomb. Were they in on the conspiracy too?

There is one part of the argument that is valid. After the Cold War, Russia did admit that SOME of their missiles were actually dummies. They could not compete with the US and the number of missiles that we could field, so they made some that were empty tubes.

A solid judgment that reconciles scientific evidence with common sense: Nuclear Bombs Do Not Exist.

Originally posted by violenttorrent
I've put together a seven minute piece which asks the question "Do Nuclear Bombs Exist?" www.youtube.com...

Hey Violent, saw your video. Very well done, by the way. Nukes have been so ingrained into my life and my biggest fear for so long that I find it hard to believe they couldn't be real... however, you made some interesting questions in your video.

Sorry for the way some people have treated you on here. Even though you may be wrong, you still have the right to ask your questions and for us to give you some good answers as to why you may be wrong. I don't know enough, unfortunately, about physics to really answer it well.

I do have one question for you. How about India and when they just tested their first bomb and all the Indians were jumping around and were happy. Are they lying about it too?

As far as the Hiroshima questions go I can help you with that one a bit. You made a good point in your video that we don't know if those pics are from Hiroshima and that it looked like it had been carpet bombed. Here is where I think I can answer this one for you. Don't you think that the citizens of Hiroshima would know if they had been carpet bombed or not? Every eyewitness I have read about talked about ONE bomb. I don't think they are lying to perpetuate the myth of the bomb. Whatever did happen at Hiroshima was not carpet bombing. I think that city proves the use of nuclear weapons.

Still very interesting thread. Considering how we're so quick to believe in 9/11 conspiracies I don't see how yours is any stranger imo. Keep up the good work if you still believe it and I'll be interested to see what you have to post next.

ps... wouldn't that make for an excellant book though? Thanks again.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

lethereaderunderstand, The problem I see with your argument is that you're trying to apply a broad concept to a specific subject.

You argue that because no one has really seen a nuclear explosion, that they don't exist, yet there are many experiences that many people do not acquire, but trust to be real.

I have never seen a person be shot dead before, but the news says it happens all the time, how am I to know that there is not some mass conspiracy to make me afraid of the establishment that has guns that could kill me?

I don't even know if bullets could kill because I've never seen bullets kill someone.

You see, you can't just say that the argument is irrelevant when the factors that apply to "I've never seen a nuclear explosion" also apply to things like "I've never seen a plane crash", "I've never seen death", "I've never seen natural birth".

Saying it's irrelevant and then throwing the "it's your opinion" statement around isn't going to help make your argument, but I commend you on the research you have done, you are the only one who has made any effort to try to prove that nuclear weapons don't exist.

But let us ask now, if Nuclear Bombs don't exist, why would the government lie about them? If the government was going to lie about a weapon that could cause massive damage, why wouldn't they lie about a weapon that, when it hits, destroys only designated targets, eradicates all living organisms, while maintaining a stable environment for occupation?

That seems like a much better mythical weapon to me to lie about and would require just as much resources to lie about that one, as it would cost to lie about nuclear weapons... but then that's my opinion.

I believe nuclear weapons are real, history is the strongest evidence I can provide and I think it supports me well.

Shattered OUT...

Shattered, first thank you for talking to me like a human being. You have my attention.

You guys know you are going way overboard with the "I didn't see it" bit even though I will admit, it made me laugh a few times. I am a normal person, just like you. I have five senses that I am pretty sure are all clicking. The questions posed have nothing to do with the thread, so really they are irrelevant to the thread. That doesn't make them irrelevant questions, but that is not what is being discussed and I simply am not going to waste my time arguing about if trees make sound when they fall.

I believe there is a big difference from seeing a nuclear weapon explode as opposed to seeing everything else you mentioned. Every thing you mentioned i.e., plane crash, someone getting shot, live birth, etc. are things that happen in everyones sphere on a day to day basis and I have personally seen those things, but regardless, they are things a common man can witness day to day and do, nuclear weapons don't fall in that category for common man would you agree?

I stated a few posts back that I have come to understand why the illusion is necessary. It is metaphorically "the wizard of oz" syndrome. The world had just suffered two world wars and it is my hope that this illusion was cast for good and not for evil, but I do believe it has gotten out of hand and that is why I feel we need to have the truth about these devices. I believe that the leaders came up with a scheme and all worked hand in hand to forge it in hopes that it would end not only the Second world war, but prohibit world wars from ever happening again. A cold war was better then a world war at any cost. I believe the build up of the "nukes" was also done for this reason. When you purpatrate something like this, there is no backing out so the illusion has to be carried all the way through, up to but excluding, actual detonation.

There have been many benefits to this also. It has opened completely new areas of science, has provided our military complex with countless jobs as well as civilian jobs throughout the 50's to the present day. That's a lot of Jobs. The people working on them, such as Kyo, benefited with education and advancement. Also, the men and women are honest and as far as they know, everything is real and working. These are NOT the ones fibbing. Everything Kyo tells me, I believe, because he is not the one that isn't doing his job, but rather he is doing his job to perfection. He went to bed every night knowing he has helped his country every night. No wrong in that.

I appreciate your kind words. I do thank you for being civil with me again. jfj123, had asked me if I like to hear myself talk in a private message. I don't hold any ill will towards the man and he deserves an answer as do you.
I thought about it, and honestly, I think I do. I don't say that because I am trying to sound conceited, but honestly I almost have to listen to the things I'm saying outside of myself...if that makes any sense. Thank you jfj123 for that reality check...sincerely.

Nobody wants these weapons to be around, at least most that I've heard comment have said that. I don't either and I believe that they aren't. I don't mean to offend anyone, because if they are not around...how stoked are we?

We are all of our opinion and I respect all of yours. We are all here for truth and sometimes a few giggles directly or indirectly. What I want at the end of the day is for us to all be wiser and helpful of one another. I expect that out of you guys and I hope you expect that out of me.

Peace

[edit on 10-1-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]

reply to post by violenttorrent


Dear Mr (an/or Ms.) ViolentTorrent, let me pose the question in turn best this way.

Do you exist? I certainly hope not, because it does deeply disturb me that the human race is capable of producing an individual who simultaneously demonstrates such an awe inspiring ignorance whilst still having access to a computer, keyboard, and the Internet.

I respectfully decline your troll.

John


[edit on 10-1-2009 by jratcliff63367]

[edit on 10-1-2009 by jratcliff63367]

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

Excellent example. I gave you a star for that one. Too bad that the soundtrack was just music, otherwise we could have heard the sound effects guy making buzzy airplane noises.

Thank you.

Shattered had mentioned that had nothing to do with nuclear and he is right. I was only trying to show how "scale" can be used to give an illusion of a bigger picture.

Scale and Compositing were the big effects in those days. They have been doing composite footage since film began, so it would be very easy to film a small scale explosion and composite it over any landscape. I will find some examples of small explosions being filmed, but here is a modern one.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Actually this goes to your whole basis of disproving what others have said so it couldn't be MORE relevant

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by googolplex
This like that thing if tree falls in woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound. Of course it made sound even if no one did hear it.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by googolplex]

Actually according to letthereaderunderstand the implications are much more grand. If nobody was there to witness the tree falling, it could not have fallen at all !

I believe if you use the search function, you can find articles on trees falling and not making any sound. Good luck to you.

But using your logic, since I haven't directly witnessed the tree falling, any article, video or photo showing a tree falling is not evidence. Again, this is your logic, not mine.
So please explain how that works.

In a short manner, if you would study gamma radiations and their emission sources, you'll discover that nuclear reactions, man-made, are theoretically sound.

I branched into this topic whilst in Physics, and if you look at recursive functions, and see the study of gamma radiation consumption, usually given in REMs or RADs, then you'll see it's quite real.

The radiation deteriorates living tissue extensively, and there are many, many case studies and fallout areas where it is all too real.

Also, unfortunately, the measurement does not deteriorate with time exposure. As fallout takes 100's or thousands of years to dissipate totally. And, as recourse, although the gov't and military would have it known that they are capable of many outrageous things, including fallacies, nuclear bombs are not one of them. Fortunately, "The Doomsday Team", which is a non-working group of collective individuals that has been in existence since Russia's development of the H-Bomb, haven't yet attained the means to leave dust in our presence.

Originally posted by violenttorrent
A solid judgment that reconciles scientific evidence with common sense: Nuclear Bombs Do Not Exist.

Please use scientific evidence to reconcile that nuclear bombs don't exist. Be a good critical thinker and back up what you're saying....if you can Unless of course you're just trolling..You're not just trolling are you? You really can show evidence as to what you're saying right?

Please feel free to post evidence and prove us wrong. Put us in our places. Show us what a great CRITICAL THINKER you really are. Make us eat our words

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Ok here's the problem. Everyone with a reasonable mentality, bases their opinions on something concrete, real, tangible, etc..

If we form completely baseless opinions on everything, we as a society would never be able to accomplish anything.

So imagine for a moment if everyone, everywhere only had their random, baseless opinions to run, manage, work and live in society.
Could you imagine people walking around:
Paper bags eat people.
Shadows are holes the swallow people.
etc..
Everyone with their own baseless opinions. Society would utterly fall apart.

That being said, surely your opinion that nuclear weapons don't exist, must have some basis? What is that basis?

[edit on 10-1-2009 by jfj123]

OK, I finally watched the video.

The OP makes several factual errors in his video, and some conceptual errors that could have been cleared up with a little research.

The Ivy Mike test, was the first successfull hydrogen bomb test. It was filmed from different distances, by multiple cameras. There were cameras on the island with the bomb, these were completely destroyed. There were cameras on ships, at various distances. There were cameras on planes at different altitudes and distances. The footage shown in the video, is from an edited film that was put together from these multiple camera angles. So, when the OP says that, "this looks like a different explosion", it is because if is a different camera at a different location.

The part about the Ivy Mike fireball looking like a composite of the sun and "some liquid", is because there were multiple filters used to film the blast. The very famous image, that shows the "soccer ball" pattern of the fireball was shot through welder's glass. The "soccer ball" shows the general shape of the explosive charges used to trigger the explosion.

The Ivy Mike blast was conducted on the Enewetak atoll in the South Pacific. When I was in college, I had an ROTC instructor who had commanded the Enewetak cleanup in the late 70's. He had some very impressive pics., which he put together in a slide show.

His pics showed the test houses that were built on the island, the stands of trees that the OP mentions, the test stands, the camera placements, the animal cages, the dummies, etc. It all matches what you see in the video. I consider him to be a very credible source, and his pics are coroborative evidence.

He also talked about the cleanup effort. Which you can find on YouTube. He mentioned that not all of the tests resulted in explosions. He said that some tests were conducted to find out how critical the timing of the trigger detonations were. He said that there were several stands with raw plutonium embedded in them. Swimming or diving in the atoll was off limits because of the high contamination. Several of the test rigs were simply bulldozed into the atoll.

The craters caused by the testing, still exist and one of them was lined with concrete and used to bury all the debris, then it was capped by another huge slab of concrete. There are videos of this on YouTube as well. Also, videos showing that thousands of people witnessed the atomic tests.

So, I have no doubt that these tests were conducted and that what you see in the videos of these tests are the real thing.

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

Ok here's the problem. Everyone with a reasonable mentality, bases their opinions on something concrete, real, tangible, etc..

If we form completely baseless opinions on everything, we as a society would never be able to accomplish anything.

So imagine for a moment if everyone, everywhere only had their random, baseless opinions to run, manage, work and live in society.
Could you imagine people walking around:
Paper bags eat people.
Shadows are holes the swallow people.
etc..
Everyone with their own baseless opinions. Society would utterly fall apart.

That being said, surely your opinion that nuclear weapons don't exist, must have some basis? What is that basis?

[edit on 10-1-2009 by jfj123]

Based on the evidence, that I as a member of the public, have a right to view and examine, not holding any special clearance to classified evidence, that would put the country in danger as to violate our national security, it is of my opinion that the detonation of such weapons, as deemed Nuclear/Atomic/Hydrogen, is false. That is my opinion. It is not random, nor baseless. If society fell apart, it would rebuild itself. I have confidence.

Paper bags eating people and shadow holes are your problem. Good luck

If it's all baseless, please, give me your address.

I will come to your house, give you a small piece of uranium, and I will watch you ingest it.

Because the only way fission is impossible is if nuclear physics is impossible. And since you're clearly more intelligent than hundreds of thousands of men and women with PHD's, perhaps your extraordinary misunderstanding of science will save you from a quick radioactive death.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Based on the evidence, that I as a member of the public, have a right to view and examine, not holding any special clearance to classified evidence, that would put the country in danger as to violate our national security, it is of my opinion that the detonation of such weapons, as deemed Nuclear/Atomic/Hydrogen, is false. That is my opinion. It is not random, nor baseless. If society fell apart, it would rebuild itself. I have confidence.

Then please post the evidence that you have reviewed that indicates that nuclear weapons don't exist. Your opinion is not evidence. Evidence is evidence so please separate the two items.



[edit on 11-1-2009 by jfj123]

He good news !
George W. Bush just dedicated a NUCLEAR aircraft carrier to his father. So now everyone who built and serve on the nuclear carrier is in on the lie. Oh wait, that's not the only nuclear naval vessel....hmmm.. Ok well the thousands and thousands serving on nuclear vessels are also lying.

And one of my buddies was stationed as a nuclear engineer on a nuclear sub so he was lying to. In addition, all that training he went through was all fake.