Atheists Have No Morals.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by DantesLost

 

The proof is in the pudding. What an absolutley absurd thing to say. I am sorry, but it is evident to me that you are simply trying to get hits on this thread. How totally absurd. Either you are an idiot or you have no worldly experience. I'm hoping this is an example of the latter. Threads like this are embarrasing.

ColoradoJens

reply to post by ColoradoJens


...and you, by your own admission (12/23/08 - Who else is drunk here and wants to gang up on a few threads?) are drunk and are just looking to run around ATS looking for threads to "beat down" on. You even put up a post trying to find a little angry gang to join you.

I hope to get a "gang" of hammered people with me to make some serious assualts on a few threads here that need beating.

You accuse DantesLost of either being an Idiot (Chambers Dictionary: "a foolish or stupid person", "someone who is severely mentally retarded.") or having no Worldy Experience. Mmm. Nice. So... you've travelled a lot then, have you?

Why do your 'smileys' all seem to involve hitting people? Is this some obscure moral point you're making here?

Are you going to pretend to hit me now, Jens?

I'm sure you're positively lovely when you're sober, though. Hope you have a wonderful, relaxing christmas break. You do know alcohol's a neuro-toxin and a depressant, don't you...?


[edit on 24/12/2008 by jupiter1uk]

There is no such thing as 'doing as Jesus' would. It's called living a good, moral life. People shouldn't need threats of being sent to a fiery pit to make them good people



it's like everything I said goes over the head. what the hell is wrong with people?

It's not called living a good moral life. Every ounce of love ypou have in your soul is froma a source. God wants us to realize this on earth and realize true humility.

I grew up heartless but God changed me. Evil people everywhere, heartless people.


If it's just called being good, then no evil should exist. No hatred, but you are running on pride of your own goodness.

it's all grace.. God puts into the soul.


Like I said a million times. for instance


When I was a kid my friends would woop ass for fun. I would kill insects for fun. I would throw garbage and batteries at my mother.

I had no love, they had no love.

Now I can't step on pugs, but I actually have compassion for them. That right there is grace workign in the soul.


I don't know what fairyland you guys grew up in, but I grew up with real evil people, maybee you have too.

people were nasty evil as hell.


if love is in everybody, which it isn't, then evil shoudln't exist.

But it does, because what you have God placed it there.


there are only two things a soul can run on.


Pride: which is the result of what one learned as a child, and then applied it to themsleves, giving no credit to an outside soure.


Grace: a soul who gives credit to the outside source and realizes the changes in the soul throughout the years and once you reach this state, your love will go higher.


Like crying. Like I said, I NEVER used to cry,.


once I started to go to mass I cried uncontrolably during mass, at home ect...

it's graces....

and like st paul said. Worldly people won't understand these things, so why do I even try to explain it. The things of the spirit.


and you talk about being more moral then believers.

that;s great you go to shelters, and visit the sick. So do I, but I'm not gonna baost about it because I suck and am nothing without God.

Nothing.

I suck.

all love is from him and I know this for a fact from what I went through as a kid. and God will show you after death what grace is.


many religious people did do those works, and tried to convert people. Converting people is a work God demands of us.


peace.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by JesusisTruth]

reply to post by jupiter1uk


Thank you...that was actually awesome in its correctness. I did post that thread and yes, I am drunk. Your post made me giggle. Regardless, the posting of a notion that does not take into account any real life experience is a false one and drunk or not I'll take you to town on why atheists, as such, have no morals (they may/may not). Merry Christmas! PS. As I have stated and shown in many posts, my knowledge of Christianity is vast and my "real world" knowledge ie: travelling the world, working with Jesuits missions etc gives me some insight. Do you believe there may be Catholics who become atheists? What happens to their morals? Did they have some to begin with and then they vanished? And just as a side note, lighten up. It may do you some good as Santa is watching. And finally, is this more satisfactory for you?

CJ

man these icons were made for kids.

then I get pissed and then they get goofy and it makes the forum:bnghd: impossible to bear because it's hard to read the s*** and of course the came up with this idea and it's suitable for:w: coolaid drinkers or little kiddies


in the end it makes me because it's so:bnghd: frustrating to see post wioth all the little icons


all in all it's like a dam zoo in here.


LOL.. we got kids running bts.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by fooffstarr


In the interest of not looking like a total idiot allow me to translate my half asleep ABYSMAL typing and since I can no longer edit it. You forgiveness I beg.

I'm proud to say, that being an Atheist, my morals seem to do far more good that most of the religious people I know.

Ah the "My dog is better than your dog argument.".
I fail to see how your having morals is somehow better than theirs.
Sure Christianities commandment for morals come across at the point of a threat but I have seen plenty of Christians *more than I care to think about since hypocracy bugs me* that have no morals despite the threat. Which is funny because they pretty much seem to think they don't need to since "Jeebus died for my sins." and they "Intend to get my money's worth."
Good morals are good morals regardless the excuse for having them.
Not all "religious" people are as you stated just as not all atheists are moral.

There is no such thing as 'doing as Jesus' would. It's called living a good, moral life. People shouldn't need threats of being sent to a fiery pit to make them good people.

And neither should they need laws and punishments to keep people from killing, stealing and raping each other.
But they do.


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Besides...the love that has been placed there...doesn't mean God was the one who put it there...just my 2 pennies

-Kyo

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Actually no.
I am a very spiritual person and a pagan.
I was once a very devout Methodist.

What I have found is that religious people tend to be the most amoral people of all.
One because, their religion offers redemption and forgiveness, so they can do what they want and still feel forgiven for it.
Two, most people think they go to church and that makes everything ok.And they are only religious for an hour on Sundays.
Very few carry the aspects of their religion in everyday life.
And they use that relgion to justify their actions.

In a nutshell, it creates too many excuses.

Or people seek religion because it does offer redemption, so they use it to try to feel better about past atrocities.
I have learned that if someone is a born again, usually it is because they have done something terrible.
And religion is one of the few ways they can find solace.

And people seem to pick and choose the parts they like or don't like.
For example, my very religious step brother doesn't even let his kids watch Harry Potter or Pokemon because it contains magic and is therefor witchcraft. Yet he cheats on his wife,and beats his kids.

So he thinks he is doing the right thing by keeping his kids from witchcraft, when he is committing worse atrocities himself. Is he really going to church as a result of his morals? Or it is it to pacify himself regarding his sins.
And he does some extra curricular activities to earn brownie points.

As a line in the book black beauty says: Going to church doesn't make you a Christian. or something to that effect.

I have a step aunt who is a multi millionaire from her own business, and a die hard christian. She gave my sb a job on the condition that he goes to church with her every Sunday. She dictated who he could date, and it was usually a nice church girl. One he eventually married. Yet, despite meeting all her religious standards and requests, when business slowed down and he wasn't making as much money in sales, she fired him. Funny how when money is involved, religion didn't matter. Look how many gang members and prisoners have Jesus or Mary tattooed all over them. Or hip hop artists making money off violence and hate always thank God for their fortune.
Many people just attend church because of family pressure, society pressure, some just for consistency. To have a group to belong too. To feel wanted.

A person who has morals that is not religious, is only accountable to themselves and no one else. They do it by choice, because they think it is what is right. They dissppoint themselves when they fail to live up to their morals.

And you can't hide from yourself. You can't give yourself redemption. You can't say hail mary's and be ok.


You can't blame things on God's will.

Are there bad apples all around? Of course there is.
But I would be willing to bet that the concentration of it is skewed.

Morals are taught, and set by example. In my world, the strongest most remarkable person of all is someone who had a bad time growing up. Was hurt and abandoned by everyone, and still tries to treat others right.

And plenty people are moral without ever setting foot in a church,synagogue, etc.

There are truly good people who attend church. But I believe they are truly good whether they attend church or not. And church just reinforces their beliefs. And they are kind no matter if it is at work or play or at the grocery store.

Man I can't argue with that last part at all Watcher...being good regardless of affiliation...well said

-Kyo

reply to post by nixie_nox

There are truly good people who attend church. But I believe they are truly good whether they attend church or not. And church just reinforces their beliefs. And they are kind no matter if it is at work or play or at the grocery store.

Yeah,I like this as well.

Its very true.Though I'm sure some would argue that if they stopped going to church and didn't have the light of the lord in their life,they would change.

I have no sense of decency, that way my other senses are enhanced!

reply to post by DantesLost


And I have no problem with that. Then it is a crutch. But I have no problem with crutches, for they help you walk.

And the world can be a wretch place and it can provide a sanctuary to feel safe.

What I do have a problem with is people who feel that you only are a good or moral person by attending church, and that those morals are dictated by the church.

I don't believe that a person who rescues animals and has saves the lives of babies or saves a person from a burning building for no benefit for themselves is going to hell on the account of not going to church.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Thats whats insane though.Some people do believe that no matter what good you do,if you're not baptized and you don't attend church,then you're going to Hell.

Moral in whos eyes ? Unbelievers believe something is moral and believers would say it is immoral ...

Athiests and unbelievers think right is wrong and wrong is right ...
So how can they determine what is moral or not ? ....

The reason why Christians kids etc ...end up so rebellious and messed up is because for one satan desires to have them...satan knows GOD has his hands on these kids ..and he goes to war to GET THEIR SOULS using every weapon he has .... The unbelievers kids are basically already satans so he dont have to try and get them ..they were raised by the unbelievers and have blinders on when it comes to what is truly good or bad ..Evil or Good etc ..Which is why unbelievers kids do not go through the hell that believers kids do ..Life is pretty good for the unbelievers kids because satan will take care of his own and wont torment them as long as they are serving him ...which they do serve him and may not even know it ..since they do not believe in GOD ..the word is clear if you DO NOT SERVE the LORD GOD OF HEAVEN ..you are of the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL and it is him you serve ...........they are of this world and the world (earthly fleshly which is satan) takes care of its own ...at least until the devil turns on them in the end ..WHICH HE WILL ...

Sorry if this upsets anyone ...it is my OPINION based on what I have seen in my lifetime as a Christian ....

Interesting topic. I am a christian, but I see the other side of this too.

Some Atheists apply natural law. They won't steal, murder, commit Adultery or over drink. Some of these types are married to believers, and they make better spouses than Christians who believe in God but don't follow any of the guidance of the bible, they might go to church once a week even, but morally they are worse than the atheist.

So I ask you this who is the better person, the person who doesn't believe in God but generally follows his principles, or the person who claims to believe in God, but ignores all the basic bible principles?

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Interesting topic. I am a christian, but I see the other side of this too.

Some Atheists apply natural law. They won't steal, murder, commit Adultery or over drink. Some of these types are married to believers, and they make better spouses than Christians who believe in God but don't follow any of the guidance of the bible, they might go to church once a week even, but morally they are worse than the atheist.

So I ask you this who is the better person, the person who doesn't believe in God but generally follows his principles, or the person who claims to believe in God, but ignores all the basic bible principles?

When you put it that way ..in scripture it says it will be worse for a believer than for the Athiest ...because they believed and talked the talk but did not walk the walk ............. ...but I consider these people as ubelievers too ... ...IF they truly did believe in God ....and believed the bible .They would not be doing as they do ...they would love the LORD so much they would be ashamed to do bad things ...they would love others just as much and would not do to others bad things ....they would also fear the consequences of thier actions ...and fear Judgement day ...Because the word says even if you believe you will be JUDGED by every word and deed ....(you do not slide past judgment just because you believe in him ) ....

IF YOU REALLY BELIEVED in him you would want to be like Christ and would care so much for others that you would put others before yourself even as Christ did ...

A true believer would have a heart and a conscience like Christ ...and he loved all so much that he gave his own life not for his friends loved ones ..but for his enemies ...(*he did not come to save the rightous .but the sinners to repentence)....thats what we should be like if we truly believe ..............




[edit on 4-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

As I tried to say on the first page, why should it matter to any of you or to your god what religion you follow 'on paper'? Which one you are officially signed up to.

Should it not matter more who lives to be a kind, gentle person who goes out of their way to help others and make the world around them a better place?

What if people like Mother Theresa were not officially Christian? What if they were agnostic yet did the same works in their life? Would your god still send them to hell because they didn't go to church every week?

If so, that is not a religion I'd want to be part of.

Atheists probably have the greatest ability to be moral than anyone else. Many say they have no reason to be moral, no God to fear, but there are plenty of other things can keep a person good (and other things to fear). For instance, no one wants to be known as the liar, the thief, or the adulterer. People, sane people, want to be known as a good person. So sure, atheists can end up being immoral, but I am willing to bet the line is just as long for any other practicing religions.

However, while I think the odds of being immoral stack up evenly with religious versus not, I believe that atheists have the ability to actually be more moral than those that are religious. Atheists do not have a specific text to subscribe to and, therefore, are not obligated like some to follow into rules that may seem contradictory.

Like it or not, religion does seem to segregate. Whether it has to do with gay marriage, or whether being gay is a sin, or whether women who commit adultery should be stoned... whatever, atheists are not obligated to follow or acknowledge silly ancient laws.

So in that respect, I believe that atheists have more of a free reign on being moral. All people must be raised well to become moral individuals, however, atheists have no specific texts to follow after that point and have more of an ability to accept all people (yes, even Muslims, Hindus, blacks, Mexicans, and gays).

Simplynoone

Athiests and unbelievers think right is wrong and wrong is right ... So how can they determine what is moral or not ? ....

Atheists and none believers know it is wrong to harm someone else,to steal,to kill,to lie etc etc.Is that the wrong type of behaviour?


fooffstarr

As I said to nixie_nox,some people truly believe that.



Irish M1ck

You raise some good points.Especially that on segregation.
Can segregation ever be morally good?

I'd ask the question what is moral? Taking a life is usually immoral but capital punishment isn't? Killing a baby is immoral but an abortion isn't? People in religion think that their morals are the golden rules and an atheist/nonbeliever doesn't have the same morals. I beg to differ and agree with the members here that said there are atheist that have just as much morality if not better than a Christian. There's morals in people that have never seen a bible or know of a God. A person who judges someone's values/ethics is forgetting that their culture or beliefs may be different but morality is in everyone not just a religious person.

reply to post by DantesLost


I believe segregation is fundamentally evil. Well, sort of. For instance, there is a scientific study that shows segregation of boys and girls in school will cause them to learn more at the early stages of their lives. That might prove to be good, and it's certainly not immoral.

However, any time you segregate two different people of society based off... well, no good reason, it's immoral, yes. For instance, Palestinians and Jews. There is absolutely no reason they should not be able to live together, but due to their religions and years of war, it almost seems like it is impossible for them to not be segregated.

It seems to me that segregation based off of beliefs is really just ignorance and blind hate - and there is nothing moral about that.