Occultism is not Satanism

occultism is just another synonym for spirituality.

reply to post by saint4God


How many occultists posting on this thread would you consider "Satanist"?

So far, I haven't seen any.

Originally posted by crmanager
Christians love you, you demean them.

Where does the hostility come from to demean them in the first place? You say Wiccans are self-righteous but I think you need to put yourself in any minority belief system for two seconds.

Maybe all the social pressure to conform to the standard religion in this country, the threats of eternal damnation, things like that? Ever thought about it? You guys are condescending as all when you talk about this stuff, and you honestly expect people to just change their ways and conform to what you believe is right. Now THAT is self-righteous, literally.

Maybe you don't emphasize those things to people, but that's what stands out about Christianity to non-Christians. I'll testify to that myself. Those are the conversion points, even if only implied. You must be "saved." Saved from what? Hell, of course! Fear mongering.

Christians may think they're loving but the selling points of their religion are ultimately just threats and fear, and that's not love. You have absolutely nothing going for you that is enlightening in any way whatsoever. You are herded around by your fear like sheep until you die, just as out of touch with the world as when you came into it. And again, I say this as someone who has gained an immense amount of insight from "occult" (ie outside of your box) philosophies.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by bsbray11]

You guys are condescending as all when you talk about this stuff, and you honestly expect people to just change their ways and conform to what you believe is right. Now THAT is self-righteous, literally.

reply to post by bsbray11


I have always wondered why Christians, who are charged with spreading the gospel, expect anyone to just say "okay, now I know so I will believe what you say". It is ridiculous. Take a muslim or jew (name your belief system) who has been brought up and conditioned by family, religion and country politics all their life and they are going to suddenly get it and change their wicked belief. How many Christians would do that given a reverse situation? Then to top it off, because all people have been exposed to their gospel, Jesus can now return and everyone goes to heaven or hell at the end of time. Most are taught that to believe different dooms them to something terrible.

Okay it is not quite as simple as that...or is it? I don't know. I bare the guilt of having raised a family to believe as Christians and now can not reach them and they warn mean not to speak of such thing to my grown grandchildren. Everyone wants to control everyone. Never consider an original thought (if there is such a thing).

Pardon my rant. I have done it a lot this thread. Occult means hidden. That is not a bad thing.

And Jesus said "All things hidden (occult) will be revealed.


[edit on 23-12-2008 by liveandlearn]

Most problems between Christians and Occultist/New Agers stem from simple semantics.

Christ is about Love and Justice. There are things that should be taken literally in the Bible, and other things that are meant to be taken symbolically.

The Bible is a foundational teaching - but to hear the true voice of God one has to invite the Holy Spirit into their heart. That is what makes God "living" - it requires an ongoing relationship with God.

As a person who was born and raised Jewish, thoroughly entrenched in the New Age for most of my adult life, and now a Christian - I hope I can serve as a bridge between people.

No, Occultism may not actually be Satanism - but Occultism is the larger umbrella FOR Satanism, and therefore, Occultists are NOT protected because Satanism has its way of sneaking into the minds and hearts (even UNintended) of Occultists.

The problem with Occultism, no matter what form it takes - is that it leaves each person THE GOD OF THEIR OWN LIFE. This means, that even as you preach "love and light" and "no ego" as New Agers often do - you are still NOT surrendering to the Most High. Because you are too focused on the idol-worship practices that keep the focus AWAY from the Most High God.

You only THINK you are being spiritual, by engaging in divination, channeling, psychic readings, astrology readings, tarot, etc. It's like being a kid in a candy store. It feels real good eating that candy - BUT WOE TO THE KID WHO GETS A TUMMY ACHE LATER.

Well my tummy ache came over 10 years later after I started my New Age journey. I was a full believer, and you don't want to know the pure DECEPTION, PAIN AND ANGUISH I experienced as a result of being led by my own desires away from my Creator.

There is nothing wrong with our own desires, as God puts desires in us to do his Will through us. HOWEVER - without God running your own personal show - YOU ARE LOST, PERIOD. There is no getting around this.

You cannot be your own God or Goddess - that is essentially a Satanic belief. God gave you LIFE - God gave you BREATH. You can't get around this simple fact New Age occultists. You will NEVER be your own Creator! The best you can be is a Co-Creator - but you are not a Goddess running around doing what you want! If you believe you are - you are immersing yourself in an immature spirituality that is keeping you from your Creator. THIS IS DANGEROUS - AND AN INVITATION TO SATANIC AND DEMONIC INFLUENCE.

You enjoy "love and light" but you don't understand the concept of JUSTICE. Occultism is an unbalanced, immature spirituality. And very hurtful to those who follow it. You have no idea of the demonic forces you invite into your life when you engage angels, "ascended masters" - all forces for Satan to lead you astray and confuse you.
!
What Occultists get is many FALSE PROMISES that never come true - tons of dangling carrots left hanging in front of you.

I thank God today that I was delivered from the false New Age path that hurt me terribly.

reply to post by bsbray11


Finally an honset answer...

You were NEVER "assulted or threatend" verbally, physically.

You were told you were going to hell? Maybe? It was implied? They gave you that feeling they might say it?

The SCOUNDRALS!

Self righteous people SLAY me.

Originally posted by formernewager
The problem with Occultism, no matter what form it takes - is that it leaves each person THE GOD OF THEIR OWN LIFE. This means, that even as you preach "love and light" and "no ego" as New Agers often do - you are still NOT surrendering to the Most High.

That's not true at all. You don't have to be Christian to 'surrender to the Most High', and ask around here and more will tell you the same.

In fact, the only "occult" philosophy I know of that promotes selfishness is "Satanism," in the form of LaVey's "ego trip," as mentioned.

Even if other philosophies promote self-empowerment by thinking of the individual as a god unto him/herself, so does the Bible:

Psalms 82

1 God astandeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the apersons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do ajustice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they awalk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall adie like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, ajudge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Straight from King James. www.bartleby.com...

Also,

John 10

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 ¶ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

www.bartleby.com...


Sounds like what you accuse us of, the Jews also accused Jesus.

It's no contradiction. The universe is a fractal. As above, so below. We are gods, worlds unto ourselves, but we are not the Absolute.

Like I said, ask of others, you will get the same. Don't generalize.

Because you are too focused on the idol-worship practices

What are you talking about? What idols do we worship? Because always in the back of my mind is That, and am I serving That in a way which satisfies my being?


I am curious what "new age" philosophies you approached, because it's apparent to me that whatever they were, you did not take them quite far enough before you abandoned them.

Originally posted by crmanager
You were told you were going to hell? Maybe? It was implied? They gave you that feeling they might say it?

The SCOUNDRALS!

I know, right?

Not only does it not mean anything to me, since I already don't believe in the nonsense, but I take offense at the condescension and lack of respect for what I do happen to believe. I don't care if someone thinks I'm going to hell. I think they're ignorant, frankly, but I don't tell them that. So why can't I be shown the same respect?

The New age movement, the Occult, and all that is associated with it is absolutely based on a Luciferian theology. If it is not of Jesus Christ it is based on Lucifer/Satan......

This is the basis for the New World Order.............soon to come and just as quickly dispatched by God following..............to destruction.

reply to post by tgambill


Hi, tgambill.

Have you ever wondered what exactly makes some Muslims so zealous in what they believe, and absolutely close-minded to any other school of thought whatsoever, including Christianity?

After all, they are people created by God just the same as you and me. What makes them so zealous, hard-headed, and blind? Is it the way they are raised in their Muslim countries? What gives? I'm hoping for maybe something that's a little more down to Earth and logical than just "Lucifer," unless of course your beliefs prevent you from thinking about it any further. In that case, nevermind that I asked.

reply to post by formernewager


I have to disagree that New Age and Occultist are the same. I do agree that much of New Age is built on a different interpretation of Occult teachings. The true hidden teachings are only partly known and I do believe Jesus (whoever Jesus was) tried to teach true occult teachings to those who were ready and open to it. In that day, as in our own, occult teachings were and are forbidden by most societies.

I am not a Christian, I was a Christian 30 plus years, then I embraced New Age for a while (really felt good) but I rejected it. All is not love and light. Neither are things good or bad. Things just are.

God, the Universe, All that is, maybe it is Us altogether, are bigger than the God of the bible and we are all here just trying to figure it out. It is a lonely place to be. I do not recommend it to anyone who is not sincere and determined to learn the truth. And i do not pretend to know the truth. My truth changes as I learn and grow.

You are so sure we are doomed if we do not accept your belief. Most Christians, maybe not you, say "if I am wrong, what have I lost"? Well, If reincarnationist are right, I have to live a most miserable life all over again and believe me mine is not one I ever want to go through again. So what would I get if I don't figure it out...my life over again. This alone behoves me to try to learn the truth.

I wish all the best to you in your path. At the same time, I believe we are all where we need to be at this time in our lives.

I have discovered that the New Age uses Occult terms, symbols, and tenants. Google this and see for yourself. Don't take my word for it. There is massive deception going on even in the Catholic church, Charasmatic movement and other Christian practices today. They are leading Christians from truth to the New Age beliefs. Hitler was into the occult. He was a member of the Thule Society. Now, I have discovered without a doubt, Nazism and the New Age Movement is exactly the same thing. Google this comparsion. It surprised me as well. Tenant for tenant the New Age Movement has the exact same platforms as Nazism. It is the way that the World Order will surface, according to them.

No where can it be said that Jesus tried or did teach occult teachings. He was God in Human form come to earth to take on the sins of man and through this sacrifice we are all saved from our sins if we believe on him. Jesus was God in human form and basically took his own punishment so that we might live and be with him through eternity when the Great Tribulation is over and Jesus reigns. This is the real truth of this reality.

God of the Universe gave us a love letter called the Bible written by eyewitnesses from the Old testament to the new that witnessed Jesus's miracles and raising himself from the grave. There is but one God with two different covenants separated by the Old Testament with the world under judgment and the new with the sacrifice being made and we are finally able to join God in eternity if we take, among others, Romans 10:9, and repenting of our sins as established by God.

I also searched for truth and found a litmus test. All movements, religions, to include certain Christian leaders that teach or express that man is a God or exaults man is a false religion. This is the common distinction.

The time is short and there will be many Christians, to include Popes, ministers, pastors, etc...that won't make it to Heaven. Jesus is the only way........check it out.

Originally posted by tgambill
No where can it be said that Jesus tried or did teach occult teachings.
[...]
I also searched for truth and found a litmus test. All movements, religions, to include certain Christian leaders that teach or express that man is a God or exaults man is a false religion. This is the common distinction.

I just posted two quotes straight out of the King James Bible above where Jesus says that men are gods. The same passages also show that the Jews of his time considered him a blasphemer and were going to stone him to death for it.

Is the King James Bible also occult?

You read only the one verse. We are Sons of God, if we take Jesus Christ as savior. Those that are Raptured have passed the trials of Earth and as a result attain glorified bodies. You have to read the Bible and not just the part that one wants. Jesus was God and he claimed to Be the God of the universe, but God of the Universe in Human form in order to have a personal relationship with him.

He raised himself from death, proclaimed his right to the sit on the right hand of God, and over 500 eyewitnesses to his appearance after death.

Now, the New Age/Occult movement is following true to their platforms below....


Muslims?? you are right they are....and now lets look at the Christian equalivant: talk about evil here you go.

www.youtube.com...

Hitler would probably fall in love with this woman.......talking about evil. This is a very good example of a CIA program offshoot called MKULTRA.

www.youtube.com...

I noticed your symbol...its linked with the Nephilim.....

Originally posted by tgambill
You read only the one verse. We are Sons of God, if we take Jesus Christ as savior.

He didn't say "Sons of God," he said gods. He said, verbatim from the KJ Bible, "Ye are gods." Who's not reading it correctly?

That is exactly what you just said determines if something is legitimate or not. Apparently the King James Bible is not up to your standards, and Jesus is not up to your standards, or else the conclusion you came to was rash. If you want to change the words around to fit your theory, then there is no use in even trying to have a logical discussion about it.

Also, there is nothing about "rapture" in the Bible. Not that something has to be in the Bible to be true, of course (think of all the things we've learned WITHOUT the Bible, like SCIENCE -- another tool of Satan?), but for what it's worth.

He raised himself from death, proclaimed his right to the sit on the right hand of God, and over 500 eyewitnesses to his appearance after death.

I'm aware of the literal interpretations of the teachings, but I find them ridiculous. Why the right hand of God and not the left? Without going into mystical or occult symbolism, what is the significance? Do you ever stop to think about any of this stuff?

Muslims?? you are right they are....

I asked you a specific question about some Muslims and you failed to answer it.

I noticed your symbol...its linked with the Nephilim.....

It's actually an ancient Jewish symbol called the "Tree of Life." And it's very metaphorical and symbolic, because that's actually how a lot of these teachings are supposed to be taken. That's how they serve to be educational and enlightening. Not by literally believing things like men being turned into pillars of salt or any other literal nonsense, that doesn't make any difference in your life whatsoever except to take the place of legitimate teachings and knowledge of the world. Those interpretations are worse than lies, fed to you by crooks.

Remember that the same people who held so many meetings to officially "decide" what Jesus meant, etc., also killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people (Crusades, Inquisition, destroying whole civilizations of Native Americans), all while one of the 10 commandments is "thou shalt not kill." So try to realize, the original teachings have been horribly abused and corrupted over the years, and all but totally lost, by the Catholic Church and later passed on to protestant sects, which suffered them even more corruption. The real knowledge transcends the book itself, was known to the ancients, and is truly a living teaching. The "NWO" uses it to their advantage because there's truth to it, not because they are willingly condemning themselves to "hell" (another tool of the Catholic Church), just as they save anything of value for themselves and only offer you the trash.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by liveandlearn
Has anyone considered that the God they worship could be the the bibllical "god of this world" aka Satan.

I think many believers had to 'check themselves' to be sure. For me it was a no-brainer. Having met the devil, I know what he looks like, his character was like, and his tactics. Then knowing God, is the most stark contrast one could ever come across.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by saint4God]

Interesting, please, the next time you see Satan, take a picture of him and post it so we all may see it. So what did he say to you?

reply to post by tgambill



Have you ever had dreams? Have you ever heard your own thoughts? Have you ever heard the voice of God?

"The New age movement, the Occult, and all that is associated with it is absolutely based on a Luciferian theology. If it is not of Jesus Christ it is based on Lucifer/Satan......"

And you recieved this information from?



[edit on 24-12-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
A lot of people seem to have bought into the idea that occultism = satanism. Its become a popular misconception.

Millions of Christian and Islamic tracts, books, videos, sermons warn of the "dangers of the occult", associating it with horned beasts, reverse crosses, ritual sacrifice, ritual abuse and whatnot.

NWO/Conspiracy-Literature sometimes picks up on this, theorizing of an "occult dictatorship" that is ruling the world. The mere mention of the word "occult" brings up dark images indeed.

Other, non-religious sources conjure up images of cheap market-place tricks such as crystal-reading, spiritualism, divination, palmistry, astrology etc. as being the "real" "occult science". While this is a tiny step closer to the truth, its not the full picture...not even half of it.

As a former practitioner of occult-arts I am unable to slay a goat but I am able to stare at a candlelight for one hour.

The meaning of the word "occult" is: Hidden, Concealed, Secret. It refers to a collection of teachings and techniques that were hidden from the general public and from the government for hundreds of years and only passed on in secret. Another word for this is "Hermeticism" or "The Hermetic Arts" (The Sealed or Concealed Arts)

Because they were hidden, all types of suspicions could be projected onto them...such as "satanism".

The reason they were hidden is because they were viewed as "heretic" by various religions and governments who knew they were unable to control people who exercise their soul and mind.

And that is exactly what real occult-sciences are: The practice of yoga, meditation, concentration, and dimensional-travel for the purpose of liberating the soul and mind.

Satanism, on the other hand, is an antithesis to Christianity, a form of rebellion, a philosophy of anti-Christian values. The catch-phrase "satanism" is also used by the more twisted and perverse elements of society who involve themselves in real crimes and real evils.

None of this has anything to do with occult-sciences in its original sense though. For a good example of real occult-practice take an old book entitled The Kybalion. It can be read online. From its table of contents:

I. THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.
II. THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE.
III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION.
IV. THE PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY.
V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM.
VI. THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT.
VII. THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER

Does any of this sound satanic or evil? No? I thought so.

From personal experience I know the "occult = evil" concept to be one of the strongest campaigns of misinfo and disinfo ever bestowed upon society: For the religious its to do with evil child abuse, for the materialist its to do with scamming fortune tellers and snake-oil salesmen.






[edit on 22-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

THANKYOU!

I'm tired of always hearing I'm some ritualistic devil worshiper because I am an Occultist.

Merry Christmas Sky! and thankyou for the gift

occultism is a doorway to satanism
smoking pot isnt doing heroin
but for some people they start smoking pot and end
up doing heroin its a slippery slope