Chrysler shuts down all production

reply to post by keeff


With all due respect, unions, bad products, and executives deserve a great deal of blame for the Big 3's current woes. Executives should have been able to foresee some time in 2002 that oil prices would go up. (I did not get an MBA, but I do know that if the US invades a major oil producing nation in the Mideast, there is a chance the oil market will be volatile.) They should have accordingly produced smaller cars.

The Big 3's products also deserve blame. Not only is their quality suspect, but they marketed the wrong products at the wrong times. The Big 3 put out trucks and SUV's at a time people wanted hybrids.

The unions share blame too. Toyota can build cars in America for less than the Big 3 because they pay their workers less. This drives the prices of American made cars. Given American cars' reputation for poor quality, prices have to go down and not up. Unions need to be willing to make sacrifices so the companies can stay afloat. Workers that make over $50 an hour who have no advanced degrees should be willing to take a salary cut.

Originally posted by Dulcimer
Remember when trucks were actually trucks? They could do work and take a beating.

Yeah, those days are gone. People can't afford today's expensive vehicles and they are expensive because of the fat at the companies. I am sure a good 10 grand could be chopped off a new 4x4 truck and still make profit.


The bottom line in my opinion about these companies is that they need to trim the lineup, make a good truck, a good car and a good in between and thats all.

Do 1 thing good, not 3 things half assed.

The only auto maker I trust is Toyota now.

I have to agree with you, We had a 87 Toyota pickup that was really hard to kill, after putting over 400,000 miles on it, my son finally hit a tree on the icy road and that was the end for the truck. I drive a 1990 Chevy G-20 Van now, with many mechanic's secret tricks applied to make it's truck 350 engine get really good mpg, and it has ton springs out back and can do the work of a real truck. I would not trade that old van for any new vehicle and expect the same performance from it. Today's trucks are not trucks at all, they are cars with a truck body. Crawl under them and have a good look at the frame in these new trucks. Mine has a fully boxed frame. And Hemi? Give me a break, these little engines are only 305 or so CI and they are Not by any means a real Hemi, which was a 426 CI monster that would eat the back tires off. Today's trucks are a joke.

reply to post by SantaClaus


i agree with you.

but i believe that the quality of our cars and trucks have come a long way since then. if you get a chance i would really like your opinion on the trucks that i build at my plant. goto a dodge dealer near you and test drive a new 2009 Dodge ram 1500 pick-up. the quality of the whole truck is improved emensly even over last years model. especialy in the interior.

now this statement isn't just a reply to your post. i realy would like your opion on this.

as for the consumer reports. i do not know much about these. but i assume from the sound of them, i would guess that they could have a lot of bad reviews as more people tend to give reviews when they are disatisfied as opposed to not as many that are not.

now i also agree with you on the executives at the top, heres my butt >< IMO ok i can't even say that. every companies top executives are there to make money and could care less of thier employees. the bottom line always comes first in bussines. people goto school and get degrees for one reason only, and that reason is money. so again i state that the problem needs to be fixed at the CAUSE and not the AFFECT, now i believe that you know what i mean by this as you seem more inteligent then myself.




i would also like to apologize to everyone. for as i was getting ready for bed and thinking about my post. i was in fact bashing peoples views about this issue.so please accept my apologizes.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


i just wanted to touch on the union post, toyota does not make less money then the Big 3, they make 30/nour as opposed to 28/hour. yea not much. the difference is in the benefits. our benefits are better then thiers. now i could see them lowering our benefits to match thiers as most of the health and optical benefits are not used, but still paid for. not sure if i stated it in this thread but the unions have gained nothing in the past 10 years, but only have givin up many things. first was profit sharing. now we do still get some, 300 a year. 10 years ago it was 4to7 thousand a year. a wage freeze. COLA freeze(cost of living allowance witch used to be considered our raise ase it was rolled into our pay at the end of the 3 year contracts). vacation time and paid absence time(wqhich is personal time) co-pays on our doctors visits and prescriptions raised from 0 to $25. and also a 2 tier wage system. which is all new hirees will be capped at a pay wage of $17/hour for the second tier, and normal pay for current workers.the jobs will be classifide as 1st or 2nd tier, obviously by the difficulty of the job.

sorry, im rambeling its late and i need to sleep. much respect and i will check back tomorrow.

The quality of those cars is unbelievably poor. Absolutely ridiculous. I've owned 2 chryslers and both died before 80 thousand miles.

You need to learn how to maintain a car.
i have a Chrysler la baron with over 125.000 miles on it.

You have to learn that multi weigh oil is a joke.
I have run straight 30 weight oil in all my cars and trucks and they all have got over 150,000 miles before the first engine job.
One ford truck i have now has over 500.000 miles and is still on the second engine. The first lasted 280,000 miles.

one of these days i will buy a car with diesel engine just to see if i can get 500,000 miles on a engine.

reply to post by ANNED


I have a Toytoa with 100,000 miles on it. I bought it used. I do not know if the previous owner knew how to maintain a car, and I do not know how to maintain a car. Nevertheless, boneheads like myself can buy Japanese cars and consistently get over 100,000 miles out of them. On the other hand, you have to handle your American car with kit gloves in order to keep it out of the scrap heap at 80,000 miles.

American car makers cannot point the fingers at consumers for not knowing how to maintain their product.

reply to post by SantaClaus


i'm sorry as i think we have hijacked this thread><

i wanted tos tate that this was the case. if you look at chrylsers line up. they have finally, and i agree with you, have stopped production on alot of thier similar vehichles. which is where most of the job loses have come from.

i would also like to add that at our truck plant, we also build the mitsubishi light sized truck which IS almost exactly like our dakota. as well as in 2011 the light sized nissan truck will also be built here.

www.mitsubishicars.com...

www.dodge.com...

www.nissanusa.com...

i guess at least these are not so foreign anymore.


[edit on 12/17/2008 by keeff]

I'd have to say it's not due to product, and that credit is a HUGE problem right now. A local yacht maker, Carver Boat, has had to all but shutdown, with the exception of a skeleton crew to finish up the last couple boats on the line. They have 52 yachts sold, but the buyers are unable to get the credit from the banks to complete the purchase. The down payments have already been made, but the full payment isn't. This is a company that an entire town is based on. The employees that have been laid off were told that they could come back in January, unless they receive a letter stating otherwise, and most of them are receiving the letter.

When the layoffs were done, the company kept each batch just below the mark where they would have to inform the media, and did it in portions over a matter of a few weeks. I'm finding all of this out via a co-worker who's wife and brother-in-law, as well as many friends worked there.

Maybe Chrysler does have crappy cars, but all of the Mopar made vehicles I've owned have lasted for a couple hundred thousand miles. But again, it's not all because of that, credit does have a huge part in this.

reply to post by keeff


Hey Keef, thanks a lot for your thoughtful words.

Consumer reports is the largest non-profit consumer quality reporter in the US. The only aspect in which they ask any customer about their opinion on the product is whether they are "satisfied."

They also track how long people's individual cars last, whether used or new, mileage, interior, transmission, etc. The best part of their reviews really is the reliability. I find them to be amazing at predicting the life of a car. My first Honda just so happens to be killing their predictions.

As to the person who says I can't take care of a car, I must say, you should see my maintenance histories for all my cars.

My Chryslers both began to slip transmissions around 80,000. Not that I let that stop me on one of them, until the entire rack and pinion and swing arm almost broke out from under me.

My Honda on the other hand, is a freak of manufacturing. It is at 230,000 miles on it, and I believe I'll have no problem getting it to 400,000 without replacing the engine.. No, I'm serious. This is due to the superior chain belt they put in the car that makes the car a little noisier, but is warranted for LIFE, among other things.

All Im saying is that is it irrefutable that Japanese cars on average last much longer than American cars, regardless of owner treatment.

Now Keef, if you are right about this mini revolution in your own company, then I am excited to see what happens. If American car companies can get more respectable, I am quite happy with that.

reply to post by keeff


I don't care how many checks they have before they leave the plant they are still crap cars and people are sick of it. Should the auto companies die of course they shouldn't, but they need to realize thier problems are just because they make bad products and there are options for people.

From my pesonal experience.

1985 ford escort - plain crap
1996 Chevy Camaro - crap, interior bits literally fell off when I hit 60,000 miles, trans went shorly after.
1997 Chrysler Sebring - not horrible but interior fell apart
1999 Dodge Ram - Intake manifold problems from day one. Chrysler never fixed it correctly
1990 Buick Skylark - tons of electrical problems at around 70,000 miles
1994 Mercury Grand Marquis - transmission and electrical at 100,000
1991 Ford Crown Victoria - transmission went at 90,000 miles.

And yes I do know how to maintain my cars......

But my 94 volvo 850 turbo with 300,000+ miles has not given me One single problem, nothing,nada. (knock on wood)

I will NEVER ever buy a new American car. After all these problems why would I and why should I?

People realized that cars aren't supposed to break down after 50,000 miles.

These companies need to wise up stop making 40 different models and focus on making 3 or 4 correctly.

I will not buy an american car made after 1970, that was when decent cars disappeared in my opinion.

No offense but I don't care how nice a 09 Ram 1500 is. I would not even look at them. Based on my experience no matter how nice a NEW american car seems at first I know it will just fall apart. Changing this perception is the greatest hurdle the US companies face. Its going to take decades to recover.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by drock905]

reply to post by drock905


i'm sorry but you are saying our vehicles are complete crap(US vehicles) but have not had a new one in over 10 years!! so obviously you DO NOT know the quality of the vehicles NOW. this is where ignorance comes in.

please read the whole thread before regergitating information that was already addressed.

[edit on 12/18/2008 by keeff]

reply to post by keeff


With all due respect, and I do respect your opinion, previous experience with a brand will stick with you for a looooooong time. I'm not talking cell phones or clothes here, which tend to be a fad.. I'm talking vehicles, which some people pass on to their children.. Vehicles are meant to last a long time, and the ones that do stick with you.

I would say that there are quite a few people out there telling their kids to stay away from American Auto companies. Sad? For sure! Understandable? You better believe it.

So, you can add public opinion to the huge list of setbacks and get a better idea.

Not saying its right, I'm just saying that it exists. And validly.

You yankees think its bad?
Over here in Britain, Vauxhall (owned by GM) has shut down its main manufacturing plant for something like 8 or 9 months, instead of the usual couple of weeks over Christmas, and told their employees to stay home for that time on 1/3 of their normal wage.

Thats a good few thousand people. Who are now expected to live on little-to-nothing until their masters call them back, its a fecking disgrace.

I do not work for the auto industry nor do I want to own an American made car (my wife does have a Dodge Caravan though oh well). I would rather drive an import because of their reliability personally, though I have had some decent Chevy products nothing near an import though.


I really would hate to see the big three go under though because that is like asking to see someone (a lot of someone’s lose their job). I am not worried about the big CEOs or corporate guys they will be set by now with all the cash they have stolen (and that is what they did) from the wage earners and the public. I am though concerned for the wage earners losing their jobs. Sure they make a lot more money per hour than I do but if they lose their jobs they just add the economic woes we now have.

Think about the wage earner before saying you want them to go under. There could be someone wishing for your job to go under next. Then what will you do? As I said I do not work for the auto industry I work for some Germans. So many jobs have been lost this year why pray or hope that others will lose their job that is pretty much just heartless and cruel. Pray and hope for a complete restructuring though, I am sure some of those wage earners could run the places better for far less money than the CEOs are now.

Raist

About 10 years ago I stupidly bought a brand new Chrysler Neon. It had a certain novelty value, being the only American made car around our locale.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Being a older Brit I'm very familiar with "friday afternoon cars", but ye Gods this Chrysler really took the biscuit for shoddiness. Drove like a pig, a nightmare on tight country roads, electrical faults all the time, the cat & back box packed up at 2,000 miles. Ended up trading it in, got most of my money back from an apologetic dealer (who ended his Chrysler franchise shortly thereafter).

If Chrysler are typical of the big three they well deserve to go bust.

And don't even start me on Vauxhall, the GM brand in the UK. I swear every car broken down & on the side of the road is a Vauxhall. Hope UK plc doesn't bail them out too.

Originally posted by jhill76


This is usual around this time, but they have added two more weeks to the shutdown. I wonder will GM follow suit? In this situation, I don't feel bad for the executives, but I do feel bad for the common worker who is just trying to feed his family.
(visit the link for the full news article)

Oh, the poor guys. I hate to see their kids going hungry. Is there any way to help the Chrysler workers?

Laid-off workers at Ford and Chrysler get vacation pay for the normal holiday shutdown, then will receive unemployment benefits and supplemental pay from the company that total about 85 percent of their normal pay.

Bless you sweethearts for you generosity.
Why is to so that great employers, such as Chrysler, get into trouble? Ain't that shame?

How much do you think gas prices effected the US companies? I read a small analysis that said this is one of their big problems, they produce huge gas guzzlers, which is fine when gas prices are low, but when, like until very recently, gas prices are through the roof, it makes more sense for consumers to buy a smaller more economic foreign car.

Here in the UK we have the impression also that your cars are poorly made, and use too much gas (and our gas is normally more expensive than even your most expensive times, due to ~60%-80% tax). I hardly ever see US made cars here.

Not that the UK industry is any better, much of ours closed during the 80s/90s or so, because we couldn't produce the good products either. Japanese and German cars seem to be very popular here, and have a reputation of good build quality and low gas consumption. We still have Ford here, and they are still popular, but apart from certain lines (like the Transit), they are seen as generally poor quality. I think people will put up with Ford though because there are so many generic parts for them, so they are cheap to repair when they do go wrong. The only car manufacturers I see still prospering in the UK are the very small shops that do limited numbers of sports/kit type cars.

Working as a sales person for Chrysler Jeep and Dodge I can say with 100% certainty that finding loans for people with a credit score lower than 750 is EXTREMELY difficult. My last 3 customers That I have spoken with have been between a credit score of 659-735 and guess what....They where turned down for a loan. Not just at one bank but at several. Now granted... after many phonecalls and much haggling with the banks we were eventually able to get them a loan...but ...the interst rate is not the greatest. Now in the not so distant past those credit scores would have been a no brainer to recieve A-A+ interest rates and now you have to spend hours if not days on the phone with the bank reps to even get them to consider it. So all those out there saying that consumers can't get a loan is just a load of bull....well being here on the front line of it all I will affirm to you that it is real and scary. It gets scarier with every new credit application

One point to those that say imports are better. If they where so better and so much more reliable....then why won't the manufacturers offer a Lifetime Powertrain Warrant on their procucts like Chrysler has on their Jeep, Dodges, and Chrysler vehicles?

Well, I'm pretty neutral on "american quality vs import". I know that people tend to get more miles out of their imports, but I've seen both.

My uncle has two ford trucks with over 250k on them with no major work (alternator, ps pump, 1988 and 96 respectively), they both still run fine but he recently bought a new one. I've not had any major troubles with my vehicles except the following: 96 4.6L Thunderbird, Head gasket blew at 158k. 94 Nissan Maxima, Transmission failed 130 some k. 88 Olds, Motor blew at 235k after sitting for a year without being ran. 95 Civic, Timing belt broke at 112k resulting in engine failure.

I currently drive a 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has 152k miles, and it's rock solid. My wife drives a Pontiac Sunfire with 146k miles on it with no major problems in the last 90k miles (Alternator) and she takes crap care of it (often times going 4k+ miles before oil changes, running it low on oil, etc). I had a Chevy Lumina with 212k miles on it that was one of the best running cars I've owned. Also might be good to note that I live in an area where it gets down to 20-30 below F sometimes, which is hard on vehicles.

I've owned a lot of cars, and I drive my cars hard, and have had trouble with both sides of the fence, but I've had pretty good luck with American vehicles. It's all about maintenance unless you truely have a lemon.

The mechanic in me wants a 69-79 4x4 Ford truck so I can actually work on my vehicle, but finding one in good condition around my area is tough.

Wow, you aren't in the least bit biased, are you?

Ok, is a non-ignorant, based on personal experience rebuttal for you.

American cars are boring. I'm going to state that as my first rebuttal. In a nutshell, the vast majority of cars put out by all manufacturers, foreign and domestic, are boring. Boring to look at, boring to be in, boring to drive in.

The vast majority of domestic cars that I've driven have not lasted nearly as long some of my foreign cars.

Example: 3 weeks ago I was picking up my son's best friend a couple of miles away. 2 at the most. I'm driving in my fairly new (2005) Ford Expedition. I'm the sole and only owner of this car as I purchased it new in 2005. It has only 15k miles on it. I've always taken care of this car. Always. From timely oil changes to making sure fluids and air filter are cleaned, checkups during the oil changes, etc. Never had a problem. Until the 15k mark. My car started to vibrate while at a stoplight. Vibrate HARD and to act as if it was choking. The service engine soon light came on. I immediately went home, was half a mile from home at that point and as there was nowhere to safely pull over, I had no choice. It didn't hurt the engine. Because in the end, a rod broke. The term is "throwing a rod" I believe. But it didn't just throw on, it broke right in half and shot through the entire crank shaft among other things.

So please don't go on about how it's "our" fault for manufacturers crappy parts. That's downright offensive and condescending. I take damn good care of my cars. I had a Datsun go to 250k miles with nothing ever wrong excpet needing a new fuel pump at 180k miles. Oh and a new starter at 225k miles. This experience, with a very costly car, will cost ford any future business of mine. I cannot live my live paying out 34k for a car that I cannot trust to make it to even 20k miles without something like this happening. And btw.. I'm the only driver. Approaching middle aged house wife. Nobody revs this car up, or drives like an idiot in it. Point your blame elsewhere. You are clueless.

Originally posted by keeff
STOP BELIEVING THEM!!!


i still laugh at all the IGNORANT people who say "let them fail, for building defective products,. blah blah blah". just regergitation of what they have heard from someone else.

i have worked at the warren truck assembly plant (Chrysler) for 12 years now, and if you only knew they checks and rechecks and yet again yard checks and perges that are put upon any vehicle before it leaves our yard. you would understand why i laugh.

but i ask, PLEASE STOP BELIEVEING the MSM that are STILL trying to use thier scare tactics.

also our schedual is put up by the amount of orders, so you "let them fail for the defective crap they build!!" people,. alot of someones out there are still buying our "crap". bnut i guess you knew that, cause you know everything.

SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT::: none of the quotes in this post were directed at anyone in particular, and are the FACTs from MY experience only. and solely my own.





EDITED TO ADD: if you do not take care of your vehicle, it will NOT last. and yes i stand by my products i build.also we menial union workers will yes again be putting ALOT of our overpaid money into "your"economy. so please i beg you stop letting them turn you against your own brothers. my gosh wake up!!.

oh and yes i will not be replying to all the ignorant rants and bashings that i know will follow my post.


and for all you ignorant people here is a link so that you understand that this word "ignorant" is not a derogitory comment.

www.merriam-webster.com...


as you can see it is nothing more then a LACK OF INFORMATION.

but it seems to me its more of the wrong information we all hate.

[edit on 12/17/2008 by keeff] [/quote