Russian warships bound for Cuba in new show of strength

Originally posted by blueorderYou should lay off the che imagery perhaps, as in one party communist states, you are not able to express yourself freely, so such information is to be taken lightly- poor sods, imagine how improved their lives would have been if they had not been under the yolk of communists for decades

First, you cannot say whether or not any conversations I had were expressed freely. Secondly, you want a look at how things might have turned out for the Cubans, take a look at the Dominican Republic...or Jamaica. Got a better example in the Caribbean? Once again, what's your ethnic background, so I can get your perspective?

Originally posted by Pyros

The US will not have normalized relations until the Castros and their cronies are out of power...the conspiracy theorist in me suspects that Castro had more to do with Kennedy's assassination than the government is willing to admit.

Cuban embargo eneacted Feb. 7, 1962.
Kennedy assassinated Nov. 22, 1963.

Originally posted by sadchild01
more american propaganda , lenin and trotsky were Wall street agents , read Anthony Sutton book on the secret american establishment

It is not "WRONG" even if you believe this particular and FRINGE opinion to be FACT, which it is not

and so did imperial forces of WEst , that were fighting the red army in the civil war
lenin and trotsky,imperial western forces and white army did were combined responsible for 17 million deaths during the russian civil war ,
from the Cheka(predecessor of KGB) archives

They were not the "imperial" forces of the west, and even if they were kudos, I would support any action to eliminate communism

wrong , Stalin was a power hungry person who wanted to get rid of trotsky and lenin ,

Stalin was the leader Lenin wished for, in fact, sometimes Stalin was NOT extreme enough for at times (contrary to popular leftist opinion)- Stalin built on the terror, the oppression, the brutality set up and envisioned by Lenin- the worst thing Lenin said about Stalin was that he was "rude"

and yes USA exterminated 30-70 million red indians , murdered 10-16 million directly in third world and responsible for potential hundreds of millions of indirect deaths through IMF

"THE USA" was not a country when Columbus arrived ok, numbers of indians already in the Americas is impossible to quantify from lows of 8 million to over 100 million, and most where not in what we now know as the USA- most suffered from disease hardly "extermination" as you crudely put it (never mind the fact that it was not the "USA" at the time!)- what this has to do with recent modern history is baffling. The US has done nothing but throw billions at third world countries, if I was a yank Id say "no more" and wouldnt give a single cent to the world when ungrateful revisionists such as yourself abound- oh yeah, it was the yanks that bailed out the soviets in the famine in the aftermath of the civil war, but then again, that probably does not fit with your bizzare world view

1) The US was established on the blood of 70 million Native Americans. Their lands were stolen.

lies

Since the US leadership considers it right of the Jews to occupy Palestine as they lived here over 2000 years ago, then the Native Americans can also argue back only 500 years and have their lands returned to them. So a valid ground to repatriate the European colonizers, if they refuse they can be herded into camps, subjected to a trail of tears. Alternatively they can be nuked out of existence for resisting, as well as retribution for the brutal killing of their ancestors.

What about Obama will he have to leave as he is only "half" European

2) Consider the crimes against the Africans, their enslavement, oppression and lynching for centuries, which led to millions perishing. An irony of the declaration of independence by the Founding Fathers of the US, who stated that all men were created equal, whilst Afro-Americans were subjected to such brutality which continued for many decades. They have the right seek retribution (including nuclear strike) against the descendents of the criminals who have not paid them any compensation.

I think a civil war was fought, I think the lives of Africans are infinitely better than their distant cousins in Africa, I think money has been ploughed into certain "programmes", I think that victim trough has been well snouted from

3) During the Spanish-American war at the turn of century, Philippines was colonized, and at least a 250,000 Filipinos were killed, then the country was turned into a brothel for the US soldiers, and it continues to be used in that manner. We don’t find Billy Graham and his ilk lecturing about the sin here. Nor do we find the voices for women’s rights; I suppose if they covered up instead of spreading their legs to the US soldiers then it would be cause for alarm! The Filipinos have the right of retribution for the carnage and rape.

Get into a tardis, and when you do, you can find out the true version of history, not your warped spoilt brat westrern one

4) The killing of the innocent Vietnamese populations and supporting monsters like the Pol Pot led to millions of Cambodians being killed. They too have the right of retribution and a nuclear strike would serve as deterrence for future attacks by the US.

Very good, when the Yanks go into try and prevent the spread of communism in south asia they are monsters when they dont they are monsters, good little bigot- I dont think the Cambodians have nukes tbh

You do realise that communists butchered those people- communists that you disgracefully attempt to hide their crime

5) The ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians through arming the Zionists, and the genocide against the Iraqis from 1991 onwards are good reasons to nuke the US and halt the massacre and oppression. A bully always think twice when it gets a punched by one of its victim. The only reason why the US has not used nukes against the Islamic world because it fears nuclear reprisal, as Muslims do not believe in turning the other cheek, for that matter neither do the Christians!

Totally insane, terming the Iraqi situation as "gencode", as for "turning the other cheek" wtf, if the US nuked muslim countries it wouldnt matter what cheek they had there would not be one to turn- the reason they havent nuked an Islamic country until now is a combination of no need to and a little old thing called western non communist compassion

6) Using the various financial institutions, and bribing corrupt regimes, the US has exploited the economic resources for its own benefit, bringing misery to millions around the world. Nuking the US would halt these forms of oppression, and a new economic order is likely to prevail after it is crippled permanently by nuking it.

Obviously you are insane on your initial comment, on the second comment, "nuking" the US would bring benefit to the world, wtf, this is really funny, stalin boy

7) At present everyone is speculating the use of nuclear weapons against Iran by the US or through its proxy Israel. A pre-emptive strike would make the US and the Zionists think twice, as the American and Israeli masses might appreciate what it means to use such weapons. I doubt they would have the appetite for more. For the Iraqis and the oppressed around the world they are already dying, their situation is unlikely to get any worse than it is.

Bottom line, anyone nukes the US then they are obliterated, how does that sound

USA is as big a mass murderer as lenin ,trotsky , Mao and the british imperialist who murdered 300 million people (120 million in india only, read amartya sen )
[edit on 15-12-2008 by sadchild01]

Just lies, move to North Korea and live your whacko existence, good luck with eating ants!

[edit on 15-12-2008 by blueorder]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

First, you cannot say whether or not any conversations I had were expressed freely.

if you want to play that game, neither can you, all you can say is that is what a person told you- and if you think in a one party communist state you are getting the truth they you are either naive or deliberately filtering out reality to serve your present notions

Secondly, you want a look at how things might have turned out for the Cubans, take a look at the Dominican Republic...or Jamaica. Got a better example in the Caribbean? Once again, what's your ethnic background, so I can get your perspective?

Put it this way, those two you mentioned, if they had been communist even worse than their current existence. Nazi/Communist sympathisers annoy me intensely, they really should live in the societies they waffle about- there is a reason people seek asylum in the US from communist countries and not vice versa


Why would my "ethnic" background have any bearing, is that not a bit racist?

reply to post by blueorder


like i said brain washed , you deny american genocides against native americans , by the way , read on the role the international bankers had in bringing Lenin to power (refer anothony Sutton books) and they hated Stalin for he did not obey the Bankers

For over 10,000 years the native americans lived and died throughout the vast, rich continent of North America. The burgenoning United States balanced brute military force with one economic transaction after another, on one hand slaugthering entire tribes, on the other "buying" enourmous tracts of land for exploitation. With control over nearly all native american land, leaving only small plots for "reservations", the native american way of life was destroyed and the clear choice became: be assimilated into "modern" life, or rot in "irrelevance" on the reservation.

371 treaties were made by the US government with Native Americans. The United States govenment violated 370 of those treaties, to date. Over 250 years, 160 million Native Americans have been killed by the US government.
marxists.anu.edu.au...

marxist sources estimate that 160 million native americans were murdererd by USA , which use statisitcial methods similiar to those used by Rummel for the book 'the black book of communism'
other non-marxist sources state that USA was responsible for 30-70 million deaths , off course american nazis like you will deny native american holocaust

You do realise that communists butchered those people- communists that you disgracefully attempt to hide their crime

well,Pol Pot was supported by USA

I think a civil war was fought, I think the lives of Africans are infinitely better than their distant cousins in Africa, I think money has been ploughed into certain "programmes", I think that victim trough has been well snouted from

and yes, responsible for 10 of millions of deaths by african slavery , like i said USA is a bigger mass murderer than all commies combined

Stalin was the leader Lenin wished for, in fact, sometimes Stalin was NOT extreme enough for at times (contrary to popular leftist opinion)- - the worst thing Lenin said about Stalin was that he was "rude"

lenin wanted Trotsky to be the successor , not Stalin , Stalin was power hungry

Stalin built on the terror, the oppression, the brutality set up and envisioned by Lenin

stalin was much better than Lenin,trotsky and even american presidents like Geroge Washington , who allowed the genocide against native indians and africans(slavery) to happen, millions of red indians and black slaves died ..
it was Abraham Lincoln who was true freedom fighter

[edit on 15-12-2008 by sadchild01]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by sadchild01]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by sadchild01]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by sadchild01]

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
First, you cannot say whether or not any conversations I had were expressed freely.

if you want to play that game, neither can you, all you can say is that is what a person told you- and if you think in a one party communist state you are getting the truth they you are either naive or deliberately filtering out reality to serve your present notions

Secondly, you want a look at how things might have turned out for the Cubans, take a look at the Dominican Republic...or Jamaica. Got a better example in the Caribbean? Once again, what's your ethnic background, so I can get your perspective?

Put it this way, those two you mentioned, if they had been communist even worse than their current existence. Nazi/Communist sympathisers annoy me intensely, they really should live in the societies they waffle about- there is a reason people seek asylum in the US from communist countries and not vice versa


Why would my "ethnic" background have any bearing, is that not a bit racist?

I am interested in the source of your perspective, as it would help me to understand where your knee-jerk anticommunism comes from.

I have some perspective. My father escaped the Russians in '45, my uncles lived in East Germany til it fell. I have been to Cuba before and after the fall of the USSR, I talk to people. I've been around.

I'm not going to debate how much worse off the folks in the DR or Jamaica...for example...would be under a Cuban form of government. You either get it or you don't, and I have expressed myself quite clearly in this thread.

So go to Cuba, and tell me what you find there.

Well as it Christmas lets wish the Russians and their allies well, anyone who can get rid of the festering despot nation called the US is due a pressy and my gratitude.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Well as it Christmas lets wish the Russians and their allies well, anyone who can get rid of the festering despot nation called the US is due a pressy and my gratitude.

I wish everybody well, especially the Americans because they are a wonderful people and they have been taking their knocks of late. Here's hoping they have a better year ahead of them.

MM, your reply is completely off topic.

The topic is Russian warships going to Cuba and, of course, the results.

It is not a place to spew your Anti-American Tripe!!!!

It is clear that the few warships going to Cuba is nothing more than a simple gesture.

Russia has promised Cuba money, but as oil prices continue to fall, Russia may soon realize it does not have the money to give.

I also see this as a bit of tit for tat.

I doubt Russia liked the US warships delivering aid to Georgia after it was invaded by Russia.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is only a couple of warships.

They would be distroyed completely by "ONE" of the US's battle fleets, we have about 8.

These few ships are absolutly "NO THREAT" to the US or it's interests.

It is simply the case of an old toothless lion trying to scare..................

Bold words... maybe you should check how many teeth you have because at the moment, that toothless lion still has sharp claws and they hunt in packs.

Well it must have been one serious burr for Russia to send its ships on a westatlantic tour. do you think there is more to it.. ? Its nothing new by no stretch of the imaginaiton. could this be the begining of another cold war or worse real war... I have even heard words of Bears over Alaska somewhere in the Artic Circle.. Chinese Subs popping up behind Carrier groups... surprise surpise ... for a nation without adversaries -- I think someone ticked someone else off... hopefully, they are waiting to see the NWO will change ... its hard to come to the support of someone who just murdered 10% of my 30K town. on 911 and come to their rescue is that part of our contract with these DC folks.. ? exactly what is our contract with these ill's..?

Originally posted by jibeho
Sure, its a little muscle flexing but I'm sure it has Obama sweating at the brow.

I'm quite sure this sissy boy liberal is sweating but those of us who have both balls and brains are not!

By the way, flabby arms does not constitute muscle.

Originally posted by jibeho
What do you think?

What do I think? I think one crap hole country just sent a couple of row boats to another crap hole country. I'm not intimidated one bit but I am quite amused.

I love the way that Yanks go on about the oppressive one-party system in these places. The U.S has a one-party system dressed up as a two-party democracy to pacify the sheep! All powerful nations have attained said power through the oppresion and death of many innocent people. Some are just better than others at covering it up.

As for the Russian ships, big wow, who cares? The Bear shows its claws a little, the Eagle displays its talons...this kind of posturing has gone on for years, and will continue for as long as there are individual nation states.

Roll on the N.W.O, eh?

i am not going to broach the arguments in this thread about why/what Russia is doing.

I will lay out my gut feeling .. this is the Prelude to the Obama test......

After all ( and i could be wrong here) Have not most U.S presidents been tested in one way or the other when they first take office?

I get the feeling that this has something to do with that initial test.

imo the U.S.A is particularly vulnerable at the present time due to economic and foreign policy during the past decade.

Its position as world leader at the moment is somewhat weakened and the Russians may see this as an opportunity to take away the number 1 slot from its rival.

If this is the case .. (and this is just my opinion) i hope it does not succeed, because its the Ideals that make a people/nation great...

now if we can just get back to them...................all will be well.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Ukraine, Georgia, and Poland aren't ruled by insane dictators. And the countries you listed aren't openly hating on Russia and calling for it's destruction.

jesus christ the man was responsible for over 2,000 civilians death in south ossetia... just look at him.. if this looks sane to you then I seriously question your sanity!!!!!!

reply to post by jibeho


To say the U.S has no reason to want control of Venezuala is probaly the most ludricous thing I have heard in many years lol Please educate yourself.. and stop looking at things differently just because you are American...

Venezuela coup linked to Bush teamSpecialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged
www.guardian.co.uk...

I read a article about Russia trying out GPS on Putins dog. LOL and a couple old ass warships are going to topple The Greatest Nation in the world. How funny is that, Russia wants no part of the ass whoopin when we mobilize give us a reason to knock off a couple more countries good Idea. I would think that the people on this website would realize that our Goverment keeps us in the dark about alot of stuff. All these suppossed U.F.O.'s you really don't think maybe they are ours!! GPS on a dog hahahaha take a step back alliance of the willing, cause we are America willing to spank that ass.

The Russian Army, Navy and Airforce, is A JOKE
I am currently living in Russia, and I have enough experience with these people to tell you that the United Sates Military is the unparalled Millitary power on this planet, and Russia knows it. This is a move to reassure its citizens that they are still in a position of power, WHEN THEY ARE NOT.

I hope this can end the discussion on this uninformed, and frankly, stupid issue.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I am interested in the source of your perspective, as it would help me to understand where your knee-jerk anticommunism comes from.

That is like saying jews are "knee jerk" in their hatred of the nazis- communism is plain evil and will result in untold misery for those under it, a cursory glance at Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia etc will show you that. Some apologists will waffle about those not being "true" communism which is erroneous, there can be no such thing as "true" communism, and it will always result in higher human rights abuses, oppression, torture etc than the democracies we are under (although I am not saying ours is perfect, and to be honest, the way we are heading in Europe democracy is slowly being eroded)

I have some perspective. My father escaped the Russians in '45, my uncles lived in East Germany til it fell. I have been to Cuba before and after the fall of the USSR, I talk to people. I've been around.

This is a modern world, we are not peasants, the communication is all around us, so you are no better placed to tell me what is acceptable about communism and what isnt- some people who lived under the nazis would say nazis are good, does that make their opinion more valid than anyone elses?

I'm not going to debate how much worse off the folks in the DR or Jamaica...for example...would be under a Cuban form of government. You either get it or you don't, and I have expressed myself quite clearly in this thread.

Your narrow view is your business, but clearly, the bottom line is, no perfection in any form of governance, but one party communist regimes are worse than the liberal democracies we (perhaps until recently?!) have been living under in the west

So go to Cuba, and tell me what you find there.

People in a one party communist state who cannot speak freely

Anyone think Russia will build some sort of missile base in these countries that they are visting. Just like America is building in Poland?