Students to be taught there isn't a God

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
This isn't college and has Absolutely No Business in Primary School...
Also if for some weird reason the school feels it must offer a 'there isn't a God class' then they should have a 'there is a God class'. both taught by Qualified educators.
This is Not Right in all ways...

It is called Theology and I took it from grade 1 through 9.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


In public school? I didn't know they had that!

i don't think god or religion should be tought in public schools, not even as an elective. as a parent if you want your kid brainwashed then pay for it to send them to a religious institution

reply to post by WatchNLearn


Aside from the question of whether or not religion or God should be taught in schools, there's a difference between teaching "that there IS NO God" and teaching "that there is no EVIDENCE that God exists". I realize the article title was copied exactly for this thread, but it's not exactly accurate.

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching that there is no evidence if God, because I think that's true. But it would depend on what a person means by "evidence". If you mean scientific evidence, then yes, that's true. But some people consider our mere existence as evidence of God.

But I wouldn't think that teaching that there is NO God would be appropriate, because that's not the school's business, it's the family's.

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

In public school? I didn't know they had that!

LOL, of course not but the post I was replying to said primary school as opposed to college

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
This isn't college and has Absolutely No Business in Primary School...

and not private vs. public schools. I assumed the point was something about grade level or age appropriateness and not socioeconomic politics. Silly me.

Also if for some weird reason the school (the primary school) feels it must offer a 'there isn't a God class' then they should have a 'there is a God class'. both taught by Qualified educators.
This is Not Right in all ways...

Just the way I read it.


[edit on 14-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Well, this is one of the many steps in forming a socialist state. Take away the peoples beliefs. With their beliefs gone, their much easier to control. "Believe in the State, the State is your friend, all hail the choosen one."

I recommend leaving the whole thinly veiled "existance of god, pro or con" indoctrination question out of the educational process of our children wholy.
Let them make up their own minds when they have the ability to do so. Which I might add is what I have been doing with my own offspring.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by thing fish
i don't think god or religion should be tought in public schools, not even as an elective. as a parent if you want your kid brainwashed then pay for it to send them to a religious institution

You do not think that your kids should be educated on what Jewish people believe and what kinds of holidays they have, or Muslim religious practices, or how about differences between the 8 billion Christian sects. I understand now wantint to teach them a specific religion, me neither. I do feel though that we could all only benefit from a better understanding of who other people are. The last 7 years have made me very tired of hearing bad cliches about what people think Muslims do because we were never taught anything about Islam in school. It is like it is the 1800s and people believe Jews have horns still. Sillly beliefs arent they? Kinda like the 72 virgins BS. I want my kids to understand why there are different religions, what they are, and I can tell them at night, in the privacy of our home that thet are all a scam to either get my money or touch their privates.

YES!!!!

Score 1 for Humanity!!!

This, as the OP said, is a HUGE step forward. Showing people that we are responsible for our own selves is a step that will propel us into the right direction of awareness and action.

I hope this article is the first of many like it to come.

Great find

Originally posted by Chance321
Well, this is one of the many steps in forming a socialist state. Take away the peoples beliefs. With their beliefs gone, their much easier to control. "Believe in the State, the State is your friend, all hail the choosen one."

Sean Hannity? You post on ATS?

Since when is a voluntary course offering to explore the idea of the complete lack of evidence for a deity in any way shape or form taking anyone's ideas away from them?

If anything, you are advocating that what? We all be sheltered from ideas and thoughts? Just read the bible and keep our mouths shut? The Sun moves around us. The Sun moves around us. The Sun moves around us. -when does this start making things true?- the Sun moves around us....

Originally posted by Chance321
Well, this is one of the many steps in forming a socialist state. Take away the peoples beliefs. With their beliefs gone, their much easier to control. "Believe in the State, the State is your friend, all hail the choosen one."

A ridiculous reaction to this news.

Teaching people that we should act as though we are alone (w/o God) does in no way point towards a socialist state. This is just another baseless argument that people throw out in an attempt for an automatic win.

Originally posted by bigbert81
YES!!!!

Score 1 for Humanity!!!

This, as the OP said, is a HUGE step forward. Showing people that we are responsible for our own selves is a step that will propel us into the right direction of awareness and action.

I hope this article is the first of many like it to come.

Great find

IMO, I really don't think this shows responsibility, responsibility would be to teach all the religions and their 'Gods' without a bias and explain similarities, differences, philosophies, purpose and intent, although those last 2 could vary ALOT in opinion and I don't think we should teach 'the manipulation of mankind' angle just yet, at least not till college, lol.

We need to give our children the responsibility to choose for themself what to believe and not be pushed or even nudged in a certain direction.

EMM

Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by Dulcimer
The whole thing is stupid. Religion should be out of the schools period. Not even discussed.

I am an Atheist... and I disagree...

Religion is important to understand key aspects of history... However, religion should be in its proper place in schools...

I have no problem with philosophy classes discussing religion... just as I have no problem with History classes discussing conflicting religious dogma in an attempt to help the student understand complex historical concepts... such as the crusades...

Removing religion completely IMHO would be a mistake...

I am all for removing the concept of a certain religion being "correct" though....

While I usually find myself in complete disagreement with NJ2day, on this post, with the exception to the last line, I am in complete agreement. Removing religious study from school denies young minds access to important historical facts and philosophical lines of thought that can foster sound education. Neutrality on the theological claims of each religion is proper.

What the original post is about however isn't deciding the proper place of religious study in an academic setting. Its an attempt by a group of millitant atheists to indoctrinate children by the force of the state.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


I don't disagree with you at all. And the last time I checked the article, unless it's changed, it doesn't say anything about not giving the kids an all around education; but to finally have a class like this as an option in a public school is a HUGE step forward.

I am Christian.

My junior school was a Church school. Only about 50-60 people in my year group.

My secondary school was a perfectl normal non religious school.

Now whilst in the junior school a teacher read from the bible in assembly sometimes, we had the vicar visit us and we went to church on special occasions. We never had an RE lesson for any religion.

In secodnary school from ages 11 to 14 we did R.E. lessons on many different religions. From 15 to 16 we only did Chritianity as only one had to be known to the exam. Our teacher openly told us she was agnostic, and even when we only studied Chritianity we never touched on whether it was true or not.

So only taking the people from my Junior school...after all that 'indoctrination' as so many of you put it, I would say that only about 5 of us believe in God. (Of any religion)

What poor kids we were...forced to believe that God is real...look at how bad we turned out...

[edit on 14-12-2008 by StevenDye]

Originally posted by WatchNLearn

Students to be taught there isn't a God

news.ninemsn.com.au

Victorian state primary school students will soon be able to take religious education classes which teach there is no evidence God exists.

The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum for primary pupils that the state government accreditation body says it intends to approve, The Sunday Age newspaper reported.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This title is misleading.

Why is it that whenever someone says there is no proof god exists people think that's the same as saying he doesn't. There's just no proof. If I said I was teaching a class on proof that he doesn't you can throw a fit, be my guest, but it's not the same thing. There is no evidence that there is any god. I'm talking about empirical evidence, not "look at that mountain, it HAD to be made by god".

It's a lateral move in any case. If you ask any science teacher (except for a misguided few) they will tell you that science has found no evidence pertaining to god's existence. But it shouldn't matter, since no one really knows if he exists, even religious people, because it's belief. You guys don't need proof either way and have gotten along without any sort of evidence (except fake evidence) for centuries.

As for choice...this "god" person is stuffed down my throat everyday. My #!$&*@) money's got his name and "trust". We don't get much of a choice with many religions that demand their followers spread the "good word" to us. %#@$%^! mormons woke me up today, way too early for me not to post.

Don't know what ego has to do with atheism, I can keep my mind open about the existence of omnipotence in this or some other universe. But I don't think it's the guy they were telling me about this morning. It's not like I think I'm god, I just don't believe your god exists, and I don't see anything pointing me torwards the existence of any god. Why is it that you can mathematically show the high probability of life in other parts of the universe and still more people believe in god than extraterrestrials? It's like math doesn't matter that much.

I recomend gardening when in a bad mood.

reply to post by StevenDye


Hmmm, let me guess......you are a Conservative, right?

It's not a matter of YOU turning out good, so others would have to also, it's a matter of evolving beliefs and changes. This is a great early step for that.

Think about it like this, one man discovers something spends his life learning and how to do it, then teaches another what he knows. So now the second man has a jump start on it because he didn't have to spend so long figuring it out for himself, so the second man can spend his life making it better/more efficient, and then the second man teaches a third, and that trend continues on and on.

It's evolving...




[edit on 12/14/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81


If you speak of the Government parties... I can't stand a single one of them. They all suck...


And no it isn't about whether I turned out good. I am saying thateven after being at a Chruch school, and then having years of Religious Study lessons. Only about 5 out of 50 children from my junior school year group believe in God.

That completely contradicts all the accusations that children are being indoctrinated by lessons about religion. It simply isn't true.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by StevenDye]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
[I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching that there is no evidence if God, because I think that's true. But it would depend on what a person means by "evidence". If you mean scientific evidence, then yes, that's true. But some people consider our mere existence as evidence of God.

I agree but that line of reasoning presupposes that there is only one god when in fact there are thousands upon thousands of different gods and godessess that have been worshipped by man down the years.

Due to a complete lack of any tangible,cogent evidence of any kind surely they've all got the same crediblity,feasibility and plausibility as one another?

My feelings on this is summed up:

"two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer"