The S has HTF in Canada-Must Read

reply to post by bronco73


Bronco73, easy does it, I voted for the Con's and I do not support the coalition, there is no BS here, this my opinion and I am entitled to it, I feel that there is something much larger going on here, you act like this an every day occurrence in this country to have our government basically shutdown for 2 months, do you really think that, that all party's are going to work together for the sake of all Canadian's and not bring down the government at the first chance they get, coalition or not we are going to the polls, and a majority scares me.

I do not support party funding, never said I did, I am pissed off at Harper, who I voted for, for doing the crap he is doing and knowing well, what problems it will lead to and then out of know where he decides to add 18 senators, which I feel is more than acceptable but not at this time. It's called timing and I would have expected Harper to know better, doesn't this all seem a little odd to you.

Originally posted by QuadroClip
reply to post by bronco73

 

Bronco73, easy does it, I voted for the Con's and I do not support the coalition, there is no BS here, this my opinion and I am entitled to it, I feel that there is something much larger going on here, you act like this an every day occurrence in this country to have our government basically shutdown for 2 months, do you really think that, that all party's are going to work together for the sake of all Canadian's and not bring down the government at the first chance they get, coalition or not we are going to the polls, and a majority scares me.

I do not support party funding, never said I did, I am pissed off at Harper, who I voted for, for doing the crap he is doing and knowing well, what problems it will lead to and then out of know where he decides to add 18 senators, which I feel is more than acceptable but not at this time. It's called timing and I would have expected Harper to know better, doesn't this all seem a little odd to you.

Yes, I did get heated, and apologized for it. Of course poroguing (sp) of parliament is rare, but so is a proposed coalition of the opposition, and it isn't because of some conspiracy by our Prime Minister to seize power of Canada with military guns blazing. He did it for three reasons: 1- to stay in his seat as PM, 2- to stop a coalition of the three opposition parties one of which is a party that wants to split the country apart, 3- to avoid an election when we just had one 9 weeks ago. Had he not done what he did, our current government would be comprised of a party that is so far left that Castro would be envious, a party that wanted to institute the largest tax restructuring in the history of Canada, and a party who's main platform is to get quebec to separate from the country, and as an added bonus we'd have Stephane Dion as our Prime Minister. Everybody needed to take a step back and take a breath because allowing that coalition would have likely ended Canada as a nation. As it stands, cooler heads did prevail, the coalition is dead, and the Liberals now have a leader who is actually credible. Michelle Jean poroguing parliament was the best thing that could have possibly happened.

I honestly don't think there will be a majority for any party in the coming election (at least we can agree on the election). There is too much uncertainty on the world stage right now, the Liberals have a very credible leader who will steer them back towards center, and there are too many people like you who don't trust our Prime Minister. If anything it will be a smaller Conservative minority or a very small Liberal minority.

When Harper proposed to cut party funding (which I assume is why you are pissed at him), the opposition parties were furious. However, they were planning their coalition well before that announcement was made, they were just waiting for the right circumstances to act, and Harper provided them with it. What people don't realize though is that Harper was actually cutting more funding to his own party than both the Liberals and NDP combined. That's why I feel his intentions were good. The economy is slumping badly, and EVERYBODY needs to tighten their belts, including the federal political parties.

And, he isn't adding 18 senators. They are vacant seats that are already in the senate. I really question why Canadians get so pissed when a Conservative Prime Minister appoints senators, but are happy when a Liberal one does. Every Prime Minister has the right to appoint senators to vacant seats, that's how it is done in Canada. The opposition are fiercely against elected senators, so he must appoint them. Why on Earth should he leave those seats vacant?

[edit on 14-12-2008 by bronco73]

reply to post by bronco73

To me it's both frustrating and infuriating. I honestly cannot see Canada making it as a country too much longer. ... The divisiveness in Canada will tear her apart. .... Canadians either left or right are fiercely proud of their country, yet cannot find the will to come together on any issues. We are doomed.

Bronco I also think you should chill out here. Man, you are so pessimistic, and so emotional. I really do not understand why it is the "right wing" that is always so emotional? I thought you were supposed to be the "tough guys"?

In my opinion we need to mix it up a bit more and find ways to ensure that all legitimate political parties have representation in parliament according to the votes they get, and not just conservative or liberal. That would lessen the regionality issue of Conservative west and Liberal east, because the popular vote is much more diverse.
It is good to have differing opinions about things. We are not doomed because every Canadian doesn't necessarily agree with your political views. We are healthier because of the free expression of these differences.
We are NOT doomed. K?

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by bronco73

 

To me it's both frustrating and infuriating. I honestly cannot see Canada making it as a country too much longer. ... The divisiveness in Canada will tear her apart. .... Canadians either left or right are fiercely proud of their country, yet cannot find the will to come together on any issues. We are doomed.

Bronco I also think you should chill out here. Man, you are so pessimistic, and so emotional. I really do not understand why it is the "right wing" that is always so emotional? I thought you were supposed to be the "tough guys"?

In my opinion we need to mix it up a bit more and find ways to ensure that all legitimate political parties have representation in parliament according to the votes they get, and not just conservative or liberal. That would lessen the regionality issue of Conservative west and Liberal east, because the popular vote is much more diverse.
It is good to have differing opinions about things. We are not doomed because every Canadian doesn't necessarily agree with your political views. We are healthier because of the free expression of these differences.
We are NOT doomed. K?

How do the parties gain legitimacy? Federal funding won't give it to them. Grassroots donations are IMO the best way to be a legitimate party. And I said we are doomed because our political system is completely crazy. We have equalizations that favor some provinces yet ignore others. We have some provinces getting more per capita representation in the house than others. We ignore the west and fund the east. We demonize provinces that are economically strong yet are happy to steal their wealth. We've restructured our employment system to favor unemployed from some provinces over others. We are OK with one PM appointing senators yet furious when another does. We are spending half of our tax dollars on health care yet refuse to look at other options. Canada is far from OK.

reply to post by bronco73

We demonize provinces that are economically strong yet are happy to steal their wealth. We've restructured our employment system to favor unemployed from some provinces over others. We are OK with one PM appointing senators yet furious when another does. We are spending half of our tax dollars on health care yet refuse to look at other options. Canada is far from OK.

Albertans have become the greediest, most self-centred, woe-is-me people on the continent. Not sure how this happened. I am beginning to think that there must be an underground water aquifer stretching from Texas to Alberta that is feeding the same self rightiousness in both places.
Part of being a country is both to spread out the pain and the gain. You can't just have it all "ME" or else why bother having a country at all? Just let it be a free for all.
I don't have a problem with parties getting donations up to some pre-specified limit from individuals to fund their campaigns. I do have a problem with corporations or the very wealthy having an unfair advantage. Tax payer funding of parties is one way to limit the otherwise inevitable corporate corruption.

Whats wrong with Albertans?

I wish Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba was a country by itself.

reply to post by bronco73

"...spiked wristbands..."
Ive been to many, many punk rock and metal shows, and spiked wristbands are everywhere, you must've seen em on those dang teenagers milling round on your lawn and they are sold and displayed in stores all over the place. I can also remember cops coming to shut down local shows or parties and never harassing friends and random punks about their spikes, just the underage drinking and public obscenites :LOL:
Don't mean anything by it and can't remember what site you quoted those lists from but i think the only time you would get harassed for something like that would be crossing the border.. and they would be doing it just to give you an additional hard time to whatever other reason they would've had to have you get out of the car. They do have some cool stuff on display that they have confiscated their tho... mostly, stuff on that list of banned non-firearm items.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by kidney thief]

reply to post by bronco73



How do you know that a coalition was planned before the budget? thats news, you shoulda got that out earlier.

Why do you keep saying grassroots when you should be saying "he with the most influence and connections wins the race" ???

Yes that is definatly grass root as in the people with money and power have always had control, but i dont think you have a position strong enough to persuade me that the liberal move to give credits per vote was not in the interest of changing what was totaly unfair.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by bronco73

 

We demonize provinces that are economically strong yet are happy to steal their wealth. We've restructured our employment system to favor unemployed from some provinces over others. We are OK with one PM appointing senators yet furious when another does. We are spending half of our tax dollars on health care yet refuse to look at other options. Canada is far from OK.

Albertans have become the greediest, most self-centred, woe-is-me people on the continent. Not sure how this happened. I am beginning to think that there must be an underground water aquifer stretching from Texas to Alberta that is feeding the same self rightiousness in both places.

Part of being a country is both to spread out the pain and the gain. You can't just have it all "ME" or else why bother having a country at all? Just let it be a free for all.
I don't have a problem with parties getting donations up to some pre-specified limit from individuals to fund their campaigns. I do have a problem with corporations or the very wealthy having an unfair advantage. Tax payer funding of parties is one way to limit the otherwise inevitable corporate corruption.

And you told me to take it easy, said I was pessimistic and emotional. I didn't even mention Alberta, yet you instantly came out with your hatred of that province. If in fact Albertans were greedy as you say, then Alberta would have seceded long ago. Alberta has given us hundreds of billions of dollars, and in return we give them nothing but envy and hatred. Rather than that we should be asking why a province like Quebec who receives 12 billion dollars worth of equalizations every year to pay for things like their provincial daycare, when Alberta herself couldn't afford to have that same daycare. It's just more evidence of both a dysfunctional political system, and dysfunctional citizens.

Why do we HAVE to have taxpayer funding of federal parties just because we don't allow corporate funding of them? Why must we have one or the other? Do you realize that if the grassroots supporters of the parties would donate money to the party, they would get back 50% of that donation from the government anyways? Instead of a government 2 bucks, a supporter could give two bucks and get a tax receipt for a reimbursement of 1 dollar at year end. It's actually MORE beneficial to the supporter to give to the party than it is for the government to do it. The federal funding should stop, the corporate donations should be severely limited, and the parties should provide policy that the people are willing to back up with donations.

Originally posted by tom goose
reply to post by bronco73

 

How do you know that a coalition was planned before the budget? thats news, you shoulda got that out earlier.

Why do you keep saying grassroots when you should be saying "he with the most influence and connections wins the race" ???

Yes that is definatly grass root as in the people with money and power have always had control, but i dont think you have a position strong enough to persuade me that the liberal move to give credits per vote was not in the interest of changing what was totaly unfair.

First of all, it wasn't a budget, it was a fiscal update. And, I didn't have to get it out, Jack Layton did.
www.ctv.ca...

Grassroots are the actual people, the taxpayers that vote for the parties. It has nothing to do with connections. I agree with you that Chretien made a good choice to remove corporate donations and initiate federal funding. However, I assert that a better choice would have been to just remove the corporate donations to political parties, and leave it up to the taxpayers to support their party of choice on their own.

reply to post by kidney thief


Those are studded wristbands. The spiked ones are illegal.

Originally posted by bronco73

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by bronco73

 

We demonize provinces that are economically strong yet are happy to steal their wealth. We've restructured our employment system to favor unemployed from some provinces over others. We are OK with one PM appointing senators yet furious when another does. We are spending half of our tax dollars on health care yet refuse to look at other options. Canada is far from OK.

Albertans have become the greediest, most self-centred, woe-is-me people on the continent. Not sure how this happened. I am beginning to think that there must be an underground water aquifer stretching from Texas to Alberta that is feeding the same self rightiousness in both places.

Part of being a country is both to spread out the pain and the gain. You can't just have it all "ME" or else why bother having a country at all? Just let it be a free for all.
I don't have a problem with parties getting donations up to some pre-specified limit from individuals to fund their campaigns. I do have a problem with corporations or the very wealthy having an unfair advantage. Tax payer funding of parties is one way to limit the otherwise inevitable corporate corruption.

And you told me to take it easy, said I was pessimistic and emotional. I didn't even mention Alberta, yet you instantly came out with your hatred of that province. If in fact Albertans were greedy as you say, then Alberta would have seceded long ago. Alberta has given us hundreds of billions of dollars, and in return we give them nothing but envy and hatred. Rather than that we should be asking why a province like Quebec who receives 12 billion dollars worth of equalizations every year to pay for things like their provincial daycare, when Alberta herself couldn't afford to have that same daycare. It's just more evidence of both a dysfunctional political system, and dysfunctional citizens.

Why do we HAVE to have taxpayer funding of federal parties just because we don't allow corporate funding of them? Why must we have one or the other? Do you realize that if the grassroots supporters of the parties would donate money to the party, they would get back 50% of that donation from the government anyways? Instead of a government 2 bucks, a supporter could give two bucks and get a tax receipt for a reimbursement of 1 dollar at year end. It's actually MORE beneficial to the supporter to give to the party than it is for the government to do it. The federal funding should stop, the corporate donations should be severely limited, and the parties should provide policy that the people are willing to back up with donations.

Bronco,

Being an Albertan I sat here and wrote out some long winded reply that really made no sense( I am kinda good at that) but then decided to delete and just say I could not agree with more.

reply to post by bronco73


I'm sure you will not keep corportations and those with heavy interest at bay leaving the discretion of donations up to the public. I assumed that corporations, like the people they mimic, are bound to a maximum donation of $1000. If that is the case it would not matter much to cut them out of the process, there is a rediculous ratio of citizens to corporations. Its the manipulation and control these corporations and lobbyists use that make it an unfair race.

Grassroots have also been manipulated, its called astro turf...ya... like what we are living off right now

reply to post by Total Reality


What is the link for the original snippet? You list a number of PDFs but I don't think there is any link for the original. Thanks.

Originally posted by wayno
Albertans have become the greediest, most self-centred, woe-is-me people on the continent. Not sure how this happened. I am beginning to think that there must be an underground water aquifer stretching from Texas to Alberta that is feeding the same self rightiousness in both places.

Part of being a country is both to spread out the pain and the gain. You can't just have it all "ME" or else why bother having a country at all? Just let it be a free for all.
I don't have a problem with parties getting donations up to some pre-specified limit from individuals to fund their campaigns. I do have a problem with corporations or the very wealthy having an unfair advantage. Tax payer funding of parties is one way to limit the otherwise inevitable corporate corruption.

You know, it's opinions such as yours that only set up to divide our country more and more. It's also opinions such as yours that would make an ordinary person such as myself have no problem signing a deal for the West to seperate.

Being a born and raised Albertan, I've lived in this country all my caring life not too concerned about our government. I didn't vote in the 2006 election because I didn't know who was the biggest liar. I'll shamefully admit though, I've up until the '06 election a Liberal.

What I've decided on my own is that Liberals don't give two hoots about Western Canadians. I can't speak for Eastern Canadians, but I'm sure it's no better. Talking to elders out West here, it's a known fact that the power has always been out East.

Meaning,Ontario and Quebec.

Ontario with 106 seats in parliament and Quebec with 75, in any election, can decide our Prime Minister. The rest of the Provinces and Territories combined, can not total the Provinces of Ontario and Quebec.

181 for Ontario and Quebec. 127 for the rest of Canada.

I can't explain this in proper political terms, but this system we have in Canada is not fair to Western Canadians, nor is it fair to our Maritimers.




And no. To the OP. SDNHTF!

I live in Northern Alberta. I have witnessed military activity all my life. There is ZERO increase of MA.

Trust me, if there was anything strange going on in my neck of the woods you'd hear it here.

The only strange thing I've heard is the guard towers at new additon of the Edmonton Garrison, but that might be something for another topic.

I had to edit the shameless to shamefull

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

Originally posted by tom goose
reply to post by bronco73

 

I'm sure you will not keep corportations and those with heavy interest at bay leaving the discretion of donations up to the public. I assumed that corporations, like the people they mimic, are bound to a maximum donation of $1000. If that is the case it would not matter much to cut them out of the process, there is a rediculous ratio of citizens to corporations. Its the manipulation and control these corporations and lobbyists use that make it an unfair race.

Grassroots have also been manipulated, its called astro turf...ya... like what we are living off right now

If it's law, the corporations have no choice.

The flip side of your argument of course, is what is keeping the corporations at bay now? The fact that the federal government is donating to federal political parties as well as the people?

It might also interest you to know that corporations aren't the only entities that are manipulating lobbyists. Our previous Liberal government made it an art form. (status of women, child care advocacy association, coalition for gun control, the Pembina institute, kids first Canada, etc). The Conservative government of course stopped this funding, and the opposition Liberals ranted and raved about it. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no reason for any government to fund lobby groups, especially when that government funded the lobby groups to lobby that same government to do what the government funded these lobbyists to ask for. (yes, that statement confused me too lol), but that is what they did.

Originally posted by bronco73


No gun control in Canada?

Any device to muffle a firearm is banned. All automatic firearms are banned. All long guns that are modified to a length under 660mm or barrel under 457 mm are banned. All firearms that are not used for sport or hunting or are antiques are banned. Large capacity cartridges must have seperate registration. Of rifles, pistols, and shotguns not described above, there are approximately 100 different brands or types that are banned.

stason.org...

There is PLENTY of firearm control in Canada.

Furthermore weapons that are not firearms but are banned include:
crossbows with

[edit on 14-12-2008 by bronco73]

You are right my friend.

And don't forget to mention the laws we have regarding firearm ownership.

Such as certificates, and the legal storage of firearms.

Anyone who believes that we Canadians have no "gun laws" seriously need to get their heads out of the sand.

Some will say, "well this is for our protection", "this saves lives".

Guns don't kill. People kill.


This is kind of ironic.

Our Government allows tobacco. They set up the failure of their gun registry at the cost of millions of tax payers dollars..

Have you all seen the cigarette pack, that our Government forced tobacco companies to place on packaging? (One of many warnings)


So, murders account for 510 deaths per year (1996 results)
Tobacco (45,000).

And they're worried about taking our bloody guns away.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

My edit was not working. To see the link of the death rate image on a Canadian cigarette pack, it's right below.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

Ok, that little tidbit on the bottom of the package is WRONG.

I will find the proper link to fix my post.

edit
Proper image up.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

Ok. Every time I think it works, no image shows up. I give up.



[edit on 15-12-2008 by Unknown Truth]

Image

So, like all of them then?

Originally posted by warrenb
I would not be surprised it the US decides to take a few of Canada's provinces, namely the food and oil producing ones.