America needs to finally adopt the metric system.

Sorry, I was using a conversion program and entered in .33cup and it spit out 5.28. It's actually 5.33 tbsp which is an interesting conversion error.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by rookhouse]

3 feet in 1 yard is not irregular. It's a common fit for a common measurement. I don't want everything rounded up just because my exact measurement falls into decimals. People don't normally say "three feet in one yard" they say one or the other. Base 10 does NOT automatically mean that something is easier. Now here's what I don't understand: I have answered your question. I've told you that I know and understand the metric system and the english system. I even went and answered you "why do you hate metric?" question FURTHER after all the reasons I gave you before. And yet you STILL insist on re-explaining the metric system to me. I don't need it explained. I know how to use it. I don't like to use it.

Sure it is. If the English system followed any pattern whatsoever, then there would be 3 inches in a foot, 3 yards in a mile, 3 ounces in a pound, 3 pints in a quart, etc.; (and there aren't). Why? Because English changed over hundreds of years but since it wasn't maintained hundreds of weird and pointless measures lived on. In fact, it wasn't uncommon to go from village to village and get into a dispute with a merchant because their pound has 15 ounces and yours has 16. Metric is nice and consistent. Every prefix is a power of 10.

Yes, base 10 does mean that it's easier, because with metric you don't even have to do yards to feet or feet to yards. Metric has just one unit for each quantity, so you don't have to deal with feet, yards, miles, fathoms, ells, or anything else. Just meters (for length). Every measurement you have for length will be in meters, the only thing that changes is the place of the decimal point.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by Totakeke


That doesn't make anything easier. You act like it's difficult to remember or that you can't do these things in your head. I can, I do all that stuff in my head. Your argument makes no sense. A pattern does not equal ease.

The only weaurements that really matter



Range to target in meters

Windage in MPH

Velocity in FPS

Beer by the pint.

Everything else I can live without

That doesn't make anything easier. You act like it's difficult to remember or that you can't do these things in your head. I can, I do all that stuff in my head. Your argument makes no sense. A pattern does not equal ease.

With metric you don't even need to do conversions. Which is easier, doing conversions or not doing conversions?

reply to post by Totakeke


Yes you do. Your whole basis of argument is that it makes it EASIER to convert. How can you turn your whole point around? You do have to convert, you just convert in a different way.

Yes you do. Your whole basis of argument is that it makes it EASIER to convert. How can you turn your whole point around? You do have to convert, you just convert in a different way.

Easier to convert between prefixes, not between units. A kilometer and a millimeter are the same unit (meter), just different prefixes. I can change millimeters to kilometers, gigameters, decimeters, or any other kind of meter just by shifting the decimal point. There is no unit conversion because it is still the same meter, just a different power of 10.

Conversion is having to find the amount of ounces in a pound or feet in a mile. But since there is only one unit for each physical quantity with metric, converting isn't a problem.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by Totakeke


There's no problem with converting in the english system either. It's all converting whether you're using meters or feet or any of that crap. You have to convert either way. You're not just changing prefixes, you're also changing the entire number of the thing.

You're not making any sense, one minute you say you DON'T have to convert with metric and the next you're saying that you do.

I'm done here. This obviously isn't going anywhere because you just want to continue re-explaining how metric works. You're going around in circles and it's getting us nowhere.

Come up with a different point of argument and I might come and talk to you seeing as how you can't decide whether or not you convert with metric yet.

There's no problem with converting in the english system either. It's all converting whether you're using meters or feet or any of that crap. You have to convert either way. You're not just changing prefixes, you're also changing the entire number of the thing. You're not making any sense, one minute you say you DON'T have to convert with metric and the next you're saying that you do. I'm done here. This obviously isn't going anywhere because you just want to continue re-explaining how metric works. You're going around in circles and it's getting us nowhere. Come up with a different point of argument and I might come and talk to you seeing as how you can't decide whether or not you convert with metric yet.

You say that you've used the metric system before but I am finding that increasingly hard to believe.

Why? Because if you did ever use metric, you'd know that you don't need to convert between units. Like the meter, the gram, etc. Changing meters into kilometers, millimeters, etc. isn't changing the number or the unit; just the decimal point and the prefix. 5 meters will always have the number "5" in it regardless of the prefix (millimeter, centimeter, etc.) but the decimal point will be in a different spot and there will be some zeros in there.

Come up with a different point of argument and I might come and talk to you seeing as how you can't decide whether or not you convert with metric yet.

I'm saying that there isn't conversion between units, but there is conversion between prefixes (even though it really isn't conversion at all). I'll repeat: there is no conversion with metric except for the prefixes, and even then it isn't really conversion at all.

There's no problem with converting in the english system either. It's all converting whether you're using meters or feet or any of that crap.

Sure there is. Could you figure out how many feet are in 4.9 miles in your head? Or the number of pints in 16 gallons? Not many people can. (And if they can they are incredible mental mathematicians.)

If I'm using feet I can convert to over 15 different units; units that aren't related logically in any way. And that is pointless and superfluous. Why have 15 different unrelated units for length when all you need is one?

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by Totakeke

 

That doesn't make anything easier. You act like it's difficult to remember or that you can't do these things in your head. I can, I do all that stuff in my head. Your argument makes no sense. A pattern does not equal ease.

How can you say that English conversion are easy to remember and that anyone can do them in their head?? I asked three question earlier in this thread, and you got 2 out of the three wrong. The first one you had recall the conversion factor of acres to sqft and be able multiply 1.25 x 43560 / 10 - a feat that most people in the US probably wouldn't be able to do. ( I find this hard to believe you did this in your head.)

As you know, in metric there are no conversion factors (like 5280ft/mile or 231in^3/gal). When switching between prefixes of length and volume (I think you're confusing this with "converting" in this thread), the value changes, but the digits remain the same because the number is changed by a factor of ten.

its about time everybody started using the same units, and i thing metric works best, not to mention that i don t get a clue of imperial before i translate into metric.... so unnatural that imperial system....

no offence to anybody/anygroup.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick




Imperial:
My garden is 20 yards from my house and I need to buy wire to light up the garden and the wire is sold by the inch.

20 yards = 60 feet = 720 inches


Metric:
Same problem, but in this case we the wire is sold by cm and it is known the garden is ~ 18.3m from my house

18.30 meters = 1830 centimeters

notice the lack of obscure conversion this example would most likely be more obvious in cooking or liquid measurements as teaspoons and tablespoon are absolutely ridiculous measurements.

Hope this clears up the fact that in metric you do not need to convert.

Personally I always thought that the point of using the metric system was to keep people from thinking in the first place. A dumbed down system to promote a dumbed down society. Perfect units of measure for the mouth breathers of a one world government under a new world order.

The American resistance to conversion to metric is strongly due to the cost of adapting all infrastructure, retraining trade workers (carpenters. plumbers, machinist--which are partially converted due to world exports).

SAE (Standard American English) measurements are long ingrained in the people. Looking at something and estimating that it is 3 inches long or weighs 5 pounds is the hardest hurdle to overcome. They still use miles in the UK.

In housing doors, windows and various other things are made in standard sizes. Yes 2 x 4's are not 2'' x 4" in the finish product, but they are before being cured and planed in the planner. It is the rough cut of the green timber and rough cut lumber is actually cheaper to buy unless you want it cured.

Now the odd thing about the metric system is how things are measured. Hecto-, Deci-, Deca- are never, ever used for anything...Ever! And in the case of Deci- and Deca-, you had better know the prefix and be sure the contractor did too or else you just lost another $125M satellite.

Ultimately I sum it up with one last point...Time. Even in the metric system there are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour and 24 hours in a day. Pretty sloppy given that there are roughly 23 hours and 47 minutes in one rotation of the Earth.

Oh and Sammy Hagar would sound pretty lame singing about how he can't drive 88 as it would no longer rhyme.

SAE (Standard American English) measurements are long ingrained in the people. Looking at something and estimating that it is 3 inches long or weighs 5 pounds is the hardest hurdle to overcome. They still use miles in the UK.

It is a hurdle, but it is still only a hurdle. Australia converted a few decades ago and did it quickly and smoothly. It's just a matter of reference. It's not hard to get used to estimating in metric.

Now the odd thing about the metric system is how things are measured. Hecto-, Deci-, Deca- are never, ever used for anything...Ever! And in the case of Deci- and Deca-, you had better know the prefix and be sure the contractor did too or else you just lost another $125M satellite.

Those prefixes are in there just because they are powers of 10. Just like certain English units people will find metric units that work for just the situation, such as centimeters for height. Even though centimeters are rarely used anywhere else, they are still convenient for human height.

Ultimately I sum it up with one last point...Time. Even in the metric system there are 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour and 24 hours in a day. Pretty sloppy given that there are roughly 23 hours and 47 minutes in one rotation of the Earth.

Actually, minutes, hours, days, etc. aren't officially defined under SI. Only the second is technically metric. There have been calls for metric time, but I don't see that happening any time soon. The current system of time might not be as easy to work with but it works for everyone. (There are a lot of different time systems, but this isn't a metric time thread. )

Oh and Sammy Hagar would sound pretty lame singing about how he can't drive 88 as it would no longer rhyme.

Existing songs wouldn't have to be changed and neither would old sayings, for that matter (such as "I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole").

[edit on 1-2-2009 by Totakeke]

There are also some odd measures used in machining that do not make sense like 5.7mm diameter drills which do not equal SAE drills either.

Converting other countries when they were converted more than likely was not that big of deal at that time. Any idea how much it would cost to replace or maybe convert just all the gas pumps in all the gas station in America would be to measure liters accurately? How about all the water meters in homes and businesses?

It has been a ten year deal to convert television to digital and it has been drilled into people's heads the past two years...still not ready to throw that switch yet.

Yes, I can use the metric system. And if I pause to think about it, can do rough conversions back and forth between SAE and Metric. I still find the source to be just as arbitrary as SAE. Water freezing and boiling vary at altitudes, the earth expands and contracts and 10 cubic cm of water depends on the purity and current state as to if it truly is a kg.

On the whole it is just as random and clumsy as the kelvin scale since absolute zero has never been observed and may not actually be able to exist either in nature or by manipulation.

I mean when we look to the night sky and see all the stars, one has to consider that a good number of them no longer exist since all we see is their light that as cast so long ago for a good many of them. For all we really know, a second Big Bang could consuming whole galaxies right now and we would not really see it until it was here.

reply to post by rookhouse


You're wrong about the Tablespoons, the conversion calculator you used must have screwed up or something. You said that the recipe accounted for 5 servings and that you were trying to make food for 10 people so you'd have to double 2/3 of a cup to 1 1/3 cups. Also, because you can't have .33 tablespoons, you have to break it into teaspoons at the end.

My measurement there was correct; I got the one with the mile wrong because I didn't read it right and I thought you asked about feet, not yards. My bad.

Plus, if I was cooking and my measuring cup was dirty, I'd probably just wash it out. Why be dumb about it and start using tablespoons?

As far as the converting issue with totakeke(I am aware that this is probably spelled wrong):

You DO convert with metric. I've used it. You simply convert it in a different way.

That being said, I will not switch over to metric. America doesn't need to and the argument that the rest of the world does it is ridiculous because no country needs to do anything just because other countries are doing it.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by rookhouse

 

America doesn't need to and the argument that the rest of the world does it is ridiculous because no country needs to do anything just because other countries are doing it.

Yes you are right, like stopping at a red light or a Stop sign. It will be more fun if every country have a different convention.

Also, if you visit UK, since you came from America, you should be able to drive on the right hand side of the road, it will really be shameful if some awkward country disturb you in your habits, isn't?

We definitely should begin switching to the metric system. OP did a great job summing it up. There are many pro's for switching to the system, and the only cons are "we like the standard system" or "it's not American". Those aren't even arguments.

Simple answer:

The "standard" method of measurement is absolutely absurd. As pointed out before, the only people who can tell me how many inches are in 13.5 miles without a calculator in a few seconds are savants. With metric, as long as you can figure out how to add and subtract zero's, then you are fine.

We can start converting as soon as we start switching our cars over to more green resources. All of the non-progressives can just wallow in not being able to understand the easiest measurement system known to date.

If you seriously can't understand the metric system, and don't like its methods, you shouldn't be measuring anything to begin with.

*Edit to add disclaimer:

Of course, along with every other good idea, it's going to have to wait a few years until the financial garbage gets cleared up. Until then, keep saving!

[edit on 2/10/2009 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by PopeyeFAFL


That is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. How is that the same situation? If I go to another country, I can't expect for them to adapt to me. But I shouldn't have to adopt another countries customs in my own country.

If you want my stuff or you want my help. You are just going to have to speak my language to get it. You are the one wanting. I shouldn't have to blindly adapt to you.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


I agree. There is no reason to switch simply to conform. Conversely, there is also no reason to grasp onto an out-dated, inferior system of measurement simply because it's the "American system".