Evidence that NASA is altering the true colours of the pictures of Mars

Salutes to DA for answering questions today about this subject. And he is correct. The purpose of this thread..at least it seemed to me, was asking why are images changed by NASA to the familiar red saturated images when there are filters available for them to use to give us more color, more information, more than just the red.

Ok if folks would just read through the pages, starting at page 1, it clearly shows that there is NO WAY to get any true color image from the Spirit or Opportunity raw datasets. And even if NASA had used all of the filters for the visible spectrum in a photo, it still would NOT give us a true color image.

We have to approximate the true color. How can we do that? By streching the exsisting filter response curves so that they extend somewhat byond their narrow bandwidth limit. However, this is also not a "true" representation. Its close, but not .0000000000001 precise.

We are not trying to shoot for "true" here. Simply because we cannot get "true" color information from the datasets. We can however, get approximations from the datasets. Using the datasets as a reference, a starting point. And from there we can look at other filter information and their values to strech the filter data from the rover datasets. Again its not true color, but it is definately alot more than just red saturated images.

So...why would NASA just spit out red saturated images when there is at least some data to make approximation color images?

Perhaps they just didnt want to take the time to create the approximate color image? Perhaps they dont want anyone saying oh this is not true color. Well they know that of course. And us who are making these color images, also know that it is not true color.

All of these images that I have made, are using the official NASA datasets straight from their Spirit and Opportunity websites. I always provide the source link so that anyone can go to the source, and see where the data is comming from.

An ideal dataset will contain all of the filter information. However, as can be seen by going to the sources, NASA does not always use, or post, all of the filters availble on the rover camera. For visual purposes, I try to find the L2, L3, L4, L5, L6 and L7 filter data. These 6 image filters are the absolute best to have to make an approximate color image.

But again, we do not get all of the filters. In an eariler post, I pointed out, and proved that in most of the available datasets, NASA often starts with L2, then makes a HUGE leap out to filter L5, then another HUGE leap to filter L7, and thats all they provide for us to use! That means that I cannot magically come up with the missing filters. So from that point, I take each of the available filters and layer them multiple times, each with their own original color filter shading, then repeat each filter with a slighty different filter color shade, and intensity setting.

For example, the L2 filter is the deep red near IR filter that lies just before our visual preception ends. If there is no L3 filter, I take the L2 filter the first time, assign it deep red color shade, then take the L2 filter again and assign it a lighter red shade at a little higher intensity to give me an approximate representation of the next filter, or color wavelength, which would be in the full red wavelength. Then I take the L2 filter again and assign it a red-yellow color shade at another higher intensity level, giving me the missing L4 representation. I have now created 2 filters that are not accurate, but close. At least this gives me the missing color information that I can use to continue to layer the remaining available filters from the datasets. The process continues for each missing filter if there is no filter on the dataset.

This is how I was able to go from...

...which is a simple combining of the 3 available filters L4, L5 and L6 from the NASA dataset to making another image with extended streched filters and get this...


By extending the exsisting filters and giving the extended filters their own unique color shading and intensity, I can get close to approximating the missing color for each new filter layer so that they allow me to insert missing color information. Again this is NOT true color, but it is not this red saturated image NASA published...my examples above are of the top section only.



That is NASA's official published image. Curious isnt it.

Why didnt NASA just layer the 3 filters to simply get this...



As you can see, just layering the 3 filters, no super mega fancy adjustments, you get a very different picture!!.

And though it is close, my image with the added filters gives the image a little more color information and is what makes the tiny moss looking like features stand out on that rockface.

So where do we go from here? Well we continue to work with the exsisting data provided by NASA right off of their official websites and create images that are simply not red saturated. That is the goal, that is the intent, and that is what I, and others like DA, who is making a special software program to easily combine these filter layers and even provide the means to make extra layers with extended color shading so that the missing information can be created, are going to do here.

There is too much hard evidence that clearly shows NASA is making red saturated images even from their own datasets when they can simply publish better "eye candy" for the rest of us without giving the "FALSE" impression that Mars is totally red.




Cheers!!!!


[edit on 14-12-2008 by RFBurns]

Originally posted by FunSized
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I fine your posts about color balance to be fascinating but couldn't help but wonder, and IDK if someone else hasn't posted this yet as I haven't read the entire thread yet...
But what if the part of the arm that was white just after manufacture, after being on mars for a while isn't truly white anymore IRL??I mean if I buy shoes that have some white in them and then wear them they don't stay exactly white for very long. And then there's the matter of the martian dust being very powdery fine and possibly magnetic.

Yes I have considered that for the older datasets. But what about the first few datasets obtained by the rover shortly after arriving on Mars and the white parts were not aged or saturated in red Martian dust? Even those early image data sets and published NASA photos are red saturated.

For the later datasets, some do show the rover covered in red dust. Again I am using the datasets straight from NASA. In those images when the rovers capture images clearly showing red dust being blown everywhere, those do come out somewhat red because of the dust in the wind. Those we do not debate. It is the others where the Martian day is calm, clearly no dust being blown around, and even the sundial calibration images show no dust on the rovers or the white parts, yet in the published NASA images that are color, they always are the same red saturation, when you can take their raw data and do simple layering and find you get a completely different story!



Cheers!!!!

did u know that every planet in this universe is hollow
earth is to be hollow too and about 6 different tribes live there
remember impossible is possible

Here is another great picture from Sol 114 dataset of the skyline and ground showing the rover tracks. Source link is HERE.



Full size HERE.


The offical NASA dataset filters available for this image were L2, L5 and L7. In this rendering, I took the L2 red filter and duplicated it and gave this new L2 filter a red-yellow color shade at 15% intensity, creating an artificial L4 filter. Then I took the L7 filter and duplicated it and gave it a blue shade at 95 %, making an artificial blue filter. The original L7 filter is shaded violet at 100 percent, and the L5 filter is green at 100 percent, and the original L2 filter is deep red at 100 percent.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by RFBurns]

reply to post by Nola213
..........or a studio in anaheim........

reply to post by Holger Isenberg


Good to see you here Holger!!

Well we are not trying to get precise calibrations or true colors, thats a bit impossible from the available datasets and filters on board the rovers. But your information is right on the money.

We are just trying to produce images from the official data from Spirit and Opportunity's websites that are pretty basic, straightforward combining of the layers and see that in alot of these images posted by NASA, that NASA has deliberately turned them red when right there off of their own data, we can get images that are not resulting in pure red saturated images.

The proof is right there and can clearly be seen in the examples given. There is no reason why NASA should saturate every single image with red when their own data proves that they are not red to begin with, even with the limited number of filters on the rover cameras.

Well the quest for truth continues, and more to come!





Cheers!!!!



[edit on 14-12-2008 by RFBurns]

BRAVO! the earth looks blue and white from space, but our landmasses

sure don't look blue up close. MARS has a red surface, but not a RED atmosphere!!!




The color wheel gives this CLEARLY away - the gammas aren't touch they are just

using custom RGB 16/24 bit palettes shifted to the red, duh! Rover has 2 stereoscopic

cameras that image light from 420 - 740 nm, and would not give false images!!!

I have seen this same analysis years ago, and as I work with image analysis all day,

this is child's play - then they bluff you with fancy crap about color coding/gammas, etc.

Anyone notice the green moss and some water in a gully on the corrected photo above,

first page???!!!

DEAF ALIEN - you rock! that nasa press conference photo did blow people away a while

back when it first hit the newswire.

Jeez people, think our govt will tell us anything? at all? This of course

also gives credence to an established Mars base already there.

That's the real story!

grcimagenet.grc.nasa.gov..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>





[edit on 12/14/2008 by drphilxr]

[edit on 12/14/2008 by drphilxr]

OK , I read the whole thread and nobody made this point so I will ....no matter what color it is there is SOME sort of atmosphere on Mars as evidenced by the reflectivity of the atomized particles suspended therein( as opposed to the Moon where there is no atmosphere and the Sun and stars are in the sky simultaneously)....There is H20 on Mars .....It is above absolute zero on Mars.....Life in even its simplest form then is not just possible but probable.....more than likely.... without a doubt ...if not there ...Somewhere......and no government, religion or conspiracy theory site is going to convince me otherwise....the more compelling their "evidence" to the contrary the more firm am I in this belief ... life is abundant and universal...it is everywhere

NASA = NOT ALWAYS SAYING ALL.

Originally posted by RFBurns
Here is another great picture from Sol 114 dataset of the skyline and ground showing the rover tracks. Source link is HERE.



Full size HERE.


The offical NASA dataset filters available for this image were L2, L5 and L7. In this rendering, I took the L2 red filter and duplicated it and gave this new L2 filter a red-yellow color shade at 15% intensity, creating an artificial L4 filter. Then I took the L7 filter and duplicated it and gave it a blue shade at 95 %, making an artificial blue filter. The original L7 filter is shaded violet at 100 percent, and the L5 filter is green at 100 percent, and the original L2 filter is deep red at 100 percent.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by RFBurns]

That's altering the image. You can't add color to a black and white image. There is absolutely no science behind your process.

From the same source, Sol 114 found HERE, another great image with the ground, sky and edge of a rocky cliff.

The same filter arrangements as used in the image of the tracks were used, as well as creating artifical color layers for the missing L3/L4 and L6 filters with their associated colors for the visual spectrum. Again these are approximations, not true, but certianly not all red. In this final rendition, I did turn up the overall color level a little to bring them out more.



Full size HERE.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


I will restate my opinion as you keep photoshopping black and white NASA images in an attempt to excite individuals into believing your process.

There is no science in what you are doing. You cannot extract color from black and white photography.

reply to post by Yoda411


Please refer to the source link. The images in the source link are independant filter images that require applying their appropriate color shade. Without applying their assigned color shade for each filter, they will appear black and white. Hence, I am not altering anything.

Please also refer to page 3 for the color reference chart for each L and R filter. But I will post the reference charts here for your reference.

The visible spectrum and where each color filter is located.



The on board camera filters on Spirit and Opportunity, showing their color representation and purpose.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by Yoda411
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I will restate my opinion as you keep photoshopping black and white NASA images in an attempt to excite individuals into believing your process.

There is no science in what you are doing. You cannot extract color from black and white photography.

Try yourself by taking an L4, L6 and L7 filter image and layer those then combine them in photoshop. BTW, I dont use photoshop, I use Gimp.

You will see that once you apply the appropriate color shade for each of the filter layers, you will NOT get black and white images, nor will you get RED saturated images.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


Believe me I checked the source link. I was prepared to see this image of a blue sky posted on the NASA website, however you posted the original one from NASA (black and white) and then posted your altered image. Don't try to trick people into believing your garbage. If that is what you have to do to win an argument then I pity the fool.

As for your "filtering" process, your just adding color to the photograph. Please provide the source for this filtering information. The images you provided are clearly not hosted by NASA.

Originally posted by Yoda411
reply to post by RFBurns

 

Believe me I checked the source link. I was prepared to see this image of a blue sky posted on the NASA website, however you posted the original one from NASA (black and white) and then posted your altered image. Don't try to trick people into believing your garbage. If that is what you have to do to win an argument then I pity the fool.

As for your "filtering" process, your just adding color to the photograph. Please provide the source for this filtering information. The images you provided are clearly not hosted by NASA.

Please do show us where I posted a black and white NASA image?

The only one who is making a fool of themself here is you. Obviously you dont understand the basic concept of taking 3 independant filter layer images, giving each one their assigned color shade, then simply combine them as layers to produce a final result.

I would quite while your WAY behind friend and simply do the process yourself. If the color charts above dont make that clear to you, well I would suggest you take photo and color 101 first before making blame when you clearly do not know the process to base your blame to begin with.

Oh, I DID provide the color filter information, its in the charts above.




Cheers!!!!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by RFBurns]

reply to post by RFBurns


I asked for the source of the color information, rather than some image you created and posted on your own hosting space.

reply to post by Yoda411


Have you read the part where the rovers use 6 filters to admit through 6 different wavelengths of the visible spectrum, which produce 6 different black and white images which represent the intensity of each wavelength?

NASA have done the SAME method to color the photos. Layering 3 B/W photos of red, green, and blue colors and merging them to produce color photos is the simplest way to do it, and NASA HAS DONE THIS MANY TIMES and have shown how on different sites.

A best way but more complicated process is to take all 6 filtered photos and use algorithm to transform them into RGB color space which human eyes are responsive to as if we are on Mars. That takes a special software to do that.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by Yoda411

 

Have you read the part where the rovers use 6 filters to admit through 6 different wavelengths of the visible spectrum, which produce 6 different black and white images which represent the intensity of each wavelength?

No I have not read that part, which is why I am asking Burns where he gets the information he is using for "filtering the images". I do not see a scientific process involved, and want to know where he retrieved his process from.

The chart is hosted on his web space.

Originally posted by Yoda411
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I asked for the source of the color information, rather than some image you created and posted on your own hosting space.

www.ominous-valve.com...