Christians need to face the facts!

Exactly...make the best of what you have been given or what you have.

It is hard...but rewarding.

LV

I wouldn't down grade Christians for their path...each path has a purpose of learning.

But there is a path higher then this...one should never get 'stalemated' in a certain pathway of knowledge...for there is a path Higher then that one.

LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo

But there is a path higher then this...one should never get 'stalemated' in a certain pathway of knowledge...for there is a path Higher then that one.

My curiosity has been peaked! Do tell what this other higher path is and what it involves!

With baited breath...

Hi LIB,

This is a path that can not be proven, for one can only attain in through seeking truth within, not in a book. Through being humbled that you are worthy and the spirit is awaiting to show you things. Offering your flesh life to allow the righteous will to shine through you.

It only comes from ones own relations to Thee. A personal offering of this flesh for Thee to use as an instrument to shine righteous light here in this darkness. A saving of lights...peacekeepers...understanding its a ONE WAY through many teachings and understandings. Seeing that the light and darkness is in all materials and all cultures...

It seems chaotic at first...but in the result, its as simple as...is it of 'light' or is it 'of darkness'. Is it of 'unblemished spirit' or is it of blemished material. The most high does not need to be through of as a 'ruler ship' that demands anything...for this defeats the purpose of 'finding ones own path'.

The importance of this is the 2 different natures in the Bible. One can not see them unless they are willing to believe the spirit is waiting to show them things....show them that The Most High Power is only a power that works through love> not force, greed, pride, damnation's, ect...the pure righteous nature is patient, graceful, merciful, loving (more so then we will ever know).

There are powers in the Bible. One is the ruler of the material world, our adversary....who thinks it is God. The other is a power that rules even over the rulers of material worlds....this is the I AM.

Remember, we are warned, Satan can even come in Gods name.

This higher path is allowing the ONE WILL of righteousness to live through your body, your flesh. After this...wisdom and understanding reach a whole new level. I believe this is what Christ came to teach and practiced what he preached by turning the other cheek instead of fighting for his flesh life.

Each to their own though, always. I believe one should follow what ever resonates with their soul...for that is what is needed in that time of their growth. Always be open minded, for the spirit can not teach a closed mind.

This is hard to explain...it can only be known through seeking it. I cant lead someone on this path just as though someone couldn't of lead me down it. Its a path that one only knows if they dare to walk it with a humble mind and heart. (also it helps to understand, we do not know everything)

Make any sense?

Peace,
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Hello, LV

Yes, that made sense to me.

When I first read your post about a higher path, I thought: what could be higher than Christ consciousness!? Didn't think that there was anything higher in this realm.

Thank you for verifying for me that this is what you were referring to.

I'll try to come back on topic by saying that there is no doubt at all that religions, legends and folklore intersected and greatly influenced each other.

In fact Saint Justin Martyr, one of the early Christians was aware of that and wrote in "The First Apology":

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Æsculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Cæsar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre?

Miraculous births (including virgin births), resurection, infanticid, and many other aspects in the life of Jesus were common themes in the folklore and mythology at the time.


[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]

reply to post by zamolxis

Miraculous births (including virgin births), resurection, infanticid, and many other aspects in the life of Jesus were common themes in the folklore and mythology at the time.

Myth doesn't necessarily mean false.

You do know that don't you?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
What I find so interesting if one chooses to investigate, is all the new information that is creating an entire different picture of the Bible and its characters.

I look at the Bible like a mystery novel. Not all characters are what they present themselves to be and often one has to dig deeply to find the clues and toss aside all the chaff!

I quite agree, but for different reasons. I love how the space shuttle has helped to find ancient cities long disappeared that people say never existed and thus that the bible was wrong. I love it when they find a new ancient city or proof of another person in the bible actually existing that only strengthens the validity of the bible.
I'm sure certain things were borrowed from here or there, but one thing is for certain for me and that is that Jesus was, is , and forever will be the Christ. Ancient Sumerian writing isn't going to change that truth no matter how you spin it.

reply to post by Alienmojo



Ah yes, but what is "The Christ"? What does that title mean to you? Is it a golden Idol? Is it a battle and overcoming of a man to the will of God.

You can say it, but can you define it?

Does that exist?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


The basic flaw and strenght of your arguement are the same.

There is a common desire to shun the God of Damnation.

Can you have a life that reaches its potential without results for failure?

Can you have YING and no YANG?

Can you onlly succeed with out fear of failure?

If there is no failure then there is no "hell." If there is no hell there is no heaven. No heaven no God.

Who gave you your obvious sense of right and wrong?

It was not your parents. They simply taught right FROM wrong. It was your choice to follow the path. You chose right because of the fear of wrong... "hell."

Just because those things exists in this life...does not mean God is those things.

A process, yes...a way it must happen, yes...but Gods nature is not greed, wrathful or prideful.

Its not that I choose this because I dont like it...it is not an easy road to go against what the main stream teaches....this is what the spirit shows me.

I dont push things on to others, its there if you want it....if not, you can keep believing that we are paying prices from Eve's mistake, in which god knew she would make. Our purpose is much bigger then trying not to sin every day and knowing our sins our covered in blood.

Take what resonates, and what doesnt, by all means...dont.

peace,
LV

material worlds is where souls go to experience the 'separation' which has cause and effects...it is based on sciences.

Heaven is reaching a higher level....instead of a lower level...there are many heavens and kingdoms for the soul. The path is already laid....we will all evolve to the higher levels...but its up to the individual how long and hard this road is.

Originally posted by crmanager

Who gave you your obvious sense of right and wrong?

It was not your parents. They simply taught right FROM wrong. It was your choice to follow the path. You chose right because of the fear of wrong... "hell."

That is simply not true! There is no need for fear of something ... even so disproportionate as "eternal punishment" - to be able to do something "right", to choose what you know it is morally good.

For example I believe most people don't kill not because that is one of the moral codes in many religions - or because of some fear of "burning in fires" in a future life - but because most know it is inherently bad to kill. Even if God said that on the contrary, "thou shall kill!", that wouldn't make killing good! It is not God (or fear of eternal punishment) that gives moral value to a commandment - on the contrary, it is the commandment that reflects morality on God.

In fact in some ways it is morally corrupt to do something good because of fear - you should do something good simply because it is good!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by zamolxis]

reply to post by badmedia

If you have a personal relationship with god, then why is logic which is part of what gives someone wisdom, and what makes a man rich in the eyes of god thrown away?

Because the thought realm can be influenced. Faith is not logical. When we become as a child we accept the word without question. God asks us to be merciful, have faith, hope and charity.

Why is it we must live on what other people tell us, rather than relying on our riches? As such, is not the person who ignores knowledge, throws away the wisdom not the one who is poor in the eyes of god? If you are rich in the eyes of god, then would you not share your riches with others?

"Cast not your pearls before swine..." "Give to those who ask."

Which is wisdom, knowledge and helping to bring understanding, and not the physical literal meaning of a book as the world gives.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Siren]

THE SAMARITAN PENTATEUCH

I googled and found some information about the Samaritan's. It seems from this info, the Samaritans took over the Pentateuch from the Jews.

The Samaritan Pentateuch bar_scribes.gif The Samaritan Pentateuch are the five books of Moses (Pentateuch) which the Samaritans took over from the Jews when they gained their independence in the 4th century B.C. Following this, the Samaritans separated themselves and restricted their canon to the first five books of Moses using their own alphabet. In this way the manuscripts they handed down remained independent of the history which led to the massoretic text which is a matter of great interest for textual criticism. A manuscript of the Samaritan Pentateuch was found at Damascus in 1616. It is a popular copy of the original text and contains some 6000 variants.

Peace,
Grandma

Originally posted by Siren
Because the thought realm can be influenced. Faith is not logical. When we become as a child we accept the word without question. God asks us to be merciful, have faith, hope and charity.

While faith is 1 way, and Jesus says those who believe on faith alone are blessed, it is all very logical when you have understanding. The practice of logic goes long before the times of the bible, and is called Critical Reasoning, and you can understand what Jesus taught logically and know why he is right. You get that understanding from the holy spirit, but it comes after you are no longer poor in spirit and see John 14:20 for yourself.

Accepting authority without question is to be meek, and the meek inherit the earth. Jesus tells you to seek and you will find. To seek you have to ask questions. Did you seek the bible and the way it is meant to be understand as fact without question? There is a difference in accepting what is feed to you, and accepting what you find after seeking. Jesus taught people they were the authority, submission to authority is what Satan demands.

So I don't disagree with you in that you are wrong, but just in that it's not the whole picture. Everyone is in different stages of things.

"Cast not your pearls before swine..." "Give to those who ask."

I am not swine. And if you are going to talk about these things at all, then you are talking to those who ask(or should be). So if you are going to talk, share your riches IMO.

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by crazyjames65

 

Scientific and Historic FACTS!

They reside in the 5% of reality that isn't personal perception.

Are you serious? History is always based off the perceptions of the communities. Or as the saying goes - History is written by the victors.

Science is the same thing, as what is learned comes from personal perception. Science is always changing as new perceptions and perspectives are understood etc.

Originally posted by zamolxis
That would only be valid if all evil resulted from men - and from our actions caused by our so called "free will". But is not so! There is plenty of evil which comes from acts of God and not from our ill exercised will. In what way would the "free will" of an ill child cause his incurable disease? And what if a child dies in an earthquake, after days of suffering, buried under rubble? How would his "free will" cause that?

Part of free will is the ability to give it away. When you enter into a poker game, what keeps you from looking at the other players cards? Because you have entered the game by your own free will, and that games has rules you have agreed to follow. You can physically get up and look at that cards, but by your own free will to keep the game going, you agree not to look at those cards.

Why do you call what happens naturally evil by default? Part of coming to this reality is giving away part of your will for a limited perspective. Without that limited perspective the "game" couldn't go on. Just as if you were able to see the other guys cards in Poker it couldn't be played.

If you are here, then you have agreed/chosen to come to the game/school of good vs evil. For the experience and knowledge. You mention children for shock factor, and the perception of their innocence. Why is the child more important than an adult? They are all equal souls aren't they? Not that this is bad, if I had to choose between saving a full grown man from death or a child, I'd also have to pick the child for it's innocence. But I also realize in the bigger picture they are equal souls. So I don't know that it is by default evil. I know we each have our own lessons to learn. For all I know that kid could have that happen to it because it killed someone in a previous life/experience and was learning a lesson. Or it might have grown up and killed a bunch of people. Is the parent evil if it punishes the child to teach it a lesson? These things we do not know. I know if given the chance, I would choose to cure the child myself, but I only have a limited perception of the bigger picture and am making my choice based on that. Now if another human comes along and purposely gives a child a disease etc, then that is different.

If the child goes through six months or so of pain finally ending in death , at what point does God "take the place" of the child? Does God also take the place of the parents suffering from seeing their child in pain? Does he continue then to "take their place" also afterwards, as they mourn the loss of their child? Or he only takes the place of the child in agony? To me this only seems another attempt to find (and if unable to find, to invent or imagine) more excuses for random evil acts of God. Oh wait - he was only testing their faith!

Don't know that everyone has that happen to them. As I said, it's nothing I can speak of from personal knowledge.

But you are just playing the victim role here. You and everyone else is just the innocent victim in it all. That everything that happens is Gods fault. That if he could help you and didn't, then he must be evil. That is just plain out insane. You know what? I've been hurt, I've been homeless, I've been through hard times - and it made me a better person. I learned lessons from it.

And even if you blame god, how is that helping things? Is that changing anything? No.

""If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

Which is more evil - allowing a child to go out and play, get a few bruises, bumps and pain along the way, or putting that child into a protective bubble and robbing it of it's youth? You only feel this way because you believe death to be the end.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

Again, I am able to prevent any harm that will happen to my child by putting it in a bubble, but then I rob my child of it's freedom and youth. Have you ever heard the Pink Floyd song "Mother"? Hush now little baby, mothers going to help build the wall.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

From ignorance, the result of the limited perspective which is required to make reality exist. If not for a limited perspective, there would not be time, dimensions or anything that makes up this reality/experience. To be all knowing means everything possible from end to end is known. It's like looking at a movie film all rolled out at once. Only when you cut that movie up into frames and put it into a limited perspective do you get time and movement. Only because you do not know the ending already in a movie, do you get feelings of fear, suspense and so on. Heck, movies get old after awhile when you can figure out what the ending is going to be because it's so predictable. It loses it's suspense and so on when you already know the ending. It's the entire reason people call them spoiler alerts. This is just a choose your own adventure movie - like a video game.

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?"

This is only said because there is perceived separation from God. See, the kicker in all this is - god is within. Meaning, you are God within a limited perception for experience, and you blame yourself and put yourself in the victim role. A child of god, your soul just another individual among many, living in a limited perspective away from the all knowing for the experience. God is the sum of all consciousness. This limited perception is known as the veil, which hides the truth and creates the separation among us. This in the end, when the veil is lifted, all those of the spirit of god(those with actual consciousness) will return.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by crazyjames65

 

Scientific and Historic FACTS!

They reside in the 5% of reality that isn't personal perception.

Are you serious? History is always based off the perceptions of the communities. Or as the saying goes - History is written by the victors.

Science is the same thing, as what is learned comes from personal perception. Science is always changing as new perceptions and perspectives are understood etc.

Am I serious? Yes, but you are mistaken in your assumption of my statement.

You just said the same thing as me only perspectually biasedly. You said the same thing as I did. Do you smell something electrical burning? might be the wires in your brain. Maybe it's time to unplug and get a little rest.

I said the same thing as you, but you seen conflicting statements.

I will now go out of my way to show you.

If something resides within the 5% of reality that is not based in personal perception, then that is saying that all people of sound mind will perceive the same thing. Thus the majority sees the cart before the horse.

That is unless those sound minds have been posting too many replys on forums to have time to think about what it is they are replying to.

Originally posted by Incarnated
If something resides within the 5% of reality that is not based in personal perception, then that is saying that all people of sound mind will perceive the same thing. Thus the majority sees the cart before the horse.

That is unless those sound minds have been posting too many replys on forums to have time to think about what it is they are replying to.

But you said history. And the rule of History is that it is written by the victors. Most of the taught history is propaganda. My apologies if I misunderstood.

I tend to see things in equations. And the cart and horse would be just variables among many possible variables. Where truth lies in the equation and seeing the equation rather than the variables. The equation can be expressed among any number of variables. And thus the truth is never the variable itself, but rather the equation it is expressing.

Of sound mind is to be able to do this, which really comes naturally and is to see their fruits. Outside that if I'm misunderstanding, guess I just have a hard time seeing your point.