Christians need to face the facts!

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Mabey its not a matter of 'God wants something'...but a natural order of how things return to their source.

A seed producing a vine, that vine produces the fruits, the fruits themselves hold a seed, that seed will have to return it the Earth to make a new vine.
.

LV


LV

Obviously this cancels out free will.

The orders of how the Earths works is similar to how the order of the force of life and spirit work. A manifestation that returns to its source through a natural order

Do you have evidence of this ? What exactly is natural order and do you also have evidence of this ? Or is this your best guess and fits in to your belief system ?

Can any religion answer this for me please

Why is the cathlic church the richest coperation in the world and has caused more deaths than any other in earths history.They have 2 billion followers if each of those 2 billion followers gave only one dollar a week over the years however many years they have been in power ,not to forget all texts they hide and treasures that they have looted all through out history wouldnt the church have the members and the wealth to make this planet truely a garden of eden?Now before u ask me for proof doesnt the pope talk to god do u ask him for proof or do u just sell your soul to a power hungrey human?

reply to post by ydfocknowledgeseeker


NIce bigoted rant! Sweet.

There are 1.4 Billion Catholics , 1.1 Billion Muslims and Catholics are the root of all evil. Last time I looked at the news, not one Catholic has strapped a bomb on a mentally disabled girl and sent here in a crowd. Or flown jets into buildings...
Please don't bore us with the INQUISITION thing. That is tired and ancient.
The Church is the LARGEST provider of AIDS and overall healthcare in the world.

I would love to here the proof of their death count you give the Catholic Church though.

And a economic ponzi scheme of everyone giving 1 dollar...
Try working for it.

If you don't want to listen or believe the Pope then don't. How is degrading the belief of others a good thing?

reply to post by crmanager


It is interesting that you point out that the catholic church is (alleged to be) the biggest contributor to world healthcare.

Why i wonder does christianity need to treat illness when the jesusgod promised, that it could eradicate disease.

This smacks of the alleged evil of the big pharmacuticals, eradicate disease and the money dries up.

Did the jesus god lie ? Does christianity have no faith ? Or was the jesusgod story just a fabricated moneyspinner to begin with.


Hm, i think the evidence (or lack of ) speaks for itself, and religion does appear to be the ultimate ponzi scheme.
Perhaps that is why ex Amway Rep's share so much in common with ex Christians.

It is certainly food for thought.

reply to post by Incarnated


Incarnated:

Three hundred years after the beginning of Jesus' personal ministry, the whole Roman world had deserted paganism and become Christian. The gospel had been preached in the remotest countries of the then-known world. Under similar conditions, no other religion has been known to spread so rapidly, and it would appear that natural causes were entirely inadequate to produce the marvelous and far-reaching results accomplished by early Christianity.

Christianity had to surmount several obstacles, any one of which was capable of impeding the progress of the gospel. These obstacles were (1) Christianity excluded all other religions, not only Judaism, out of which it grew, but paganism which it deemed worthless, Christianity called all men to forsake their former beliefs and to believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. (2) Such exclusiveness incurred the hatred and opposition of the powerful priesthoods of all religions. Chief opposers were the Jewish priests who had opposed Jesus and his apostles earlier. (3) The magistrates and other civil authorities, influenced by the priests opposed the gospel as they were a part of the crucifixion of Christ. (4) The common people opposed Christianity because it exposed their sins. (5) The crucifixion of the leader (Jesus) while it was in its infancy brought discouragement and depression among his followers in the beginning of the work. With such powerful odds against it, the wonder is that the gospel did not perish at its very start. The fact that it was able triumphantly to surmount all these is evidence that there was a supernatural power supporting Christianity.

It mostly propagated by unlearned men of a despised race. This fact alone makes the obstacles to the progress of the gospel appear the more formidable. The Jews were regarded as barbarians and despised as such. The apostles were little known Galileans, despised by other Jews. Ignorant of the teachings of Jewish theologians or heathen philosophers, the apostles were nonetheless profound in their arguments. The gospel itself was an invitation to believe in a crucified Jew not merely as a good man, nor as a prophet, nor as a king, but as the Son of God. This claim to divinity could alone have defeated early Christianity.

During the 70 years from 30 to 100 AD strong churches were raised up throughout the Roman world. Even far-off Britain heard the gospel during this time. The only religion whose progress approximates that of Christianity is Mohammedanism.

As for the Scriptures being Jewish or not......to me really doesn't matter. What matters is the end result. The author of intelligent communication, or of spiritual insight for that matter, though he is purely spiritual being, is not to be limited so that he cannot communicate with human spirits in union with material bodies. Nor is man, with his finite knowledge of truth, unable to receive a revelation from the Omniscient One, as some believe. Divine revelation rests on God's initiative, in that he adapts his omniscience and his message to the finite mind of man. Man needs to know that God loves him, that his watchful eye is over him and, through God's fatherly care, that he can enjoy the benefits that come to him through the gift of atonement.

At least three ancient manuscripts of the NT are still in existence, bearing the names of their authors and held as sacred treasures in three of the world's great libraries, date their existence from the fourth century. In a single leap we may go back to 325 AD, within less than two hundred a thirty years of the death of the last of the apostles. In the third century we find proofs of genuineness similar to those mentioned. Origen was born in 184 AD less than one hundred years after the death of the apostle John. Origen was probably the most learned in the Scriptures of any of the Greek fathers. Origen's list of NT books includes all that we know today that are included in the canon. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a personal student of the apostle John. He testifies that each of the four Gospels was written by its reputed authors.

I believe that there is enough evidence in the genuineness of the NT is complete and is probably stronger than that supporting Greek or Roman classical writings. Yet these classics are accepted a genuine. WHAT VALIDITY IS THERE IN THE ARGUMENT THAT SOME OF THE NT DOCUMENTS WERE FORGED BY LEARNED MONKS DURING THE DARK AGES?

It is the same as before.........you can give me texts and quotes to support your post and I can give you my reasons and texts for not supporting your post. Again, it comes down to personal faith. That little four letter word. My faith tells me that I can trust the Scriptures and that the Father's message is all there, as well as that of his only begotten Son, and that of The Holy Spirit. It is truly the greatest story ever told. and one that needs to be kept alive by all who profess their faith in God.


Peace to you,
Grandma

Originally posted by HugmyRek
reply to post by Incarnated

 

Oh, please, not at Christmas...regardless of all the hate and subversion and attempts at conversion, please, not at another's holy day, no matter the grievance or how hard it is to make it through without feeling it.

Oh Jesus Someone went there, and Now I to must go there.

NOT AT CHRISTMAS, You mean the Ancient, we're gonna steal another Pagan holiday in December to celebrate the Birth of Jesus in June so that we can assimilate the Pagans because it didn't work with Easter, and Halloween and all Crap I think all we have left is Christmas and if this doesn't work lets start an Inquisition!!! Because nobody suspects!!

Carl

P.S. Sorry had to add the last diddy

Originally posted by Grandma
It is the same as before.........you can give me texts and quotes to support your post and I can give you my reasons and texts for not supporting your post. Again, it comes down to personal faith. That little four letter word. My faith tells me that I can trust the Scriptures and that the Father's message is all there, as well as that of his only begotten Son, and that of The Holy Spirit. It is truly the greatest story ever told. and one that needs to be kept alive by all who profess their faith in God.

a wonderfully written document. and as before, disputed statements are fond to be discussed because it keeps people asking questions and searching for deeper understandings. The NT can be read as truth, thou that "truth" doesn't have to equate to litterally true.

Ioshaua's true start is as a child born as all other children. The virgin birth is a littleral mythos. In the context of "phyisical reality" it is untrue, but that fact doesn't make it false. Because as a mythos it is true. Spiritually mary was a virgin, and God did choose Mary, and God did inpregnate Mary, althrough litterlly it was through a man's seed. Ioshaua was the son of man and God.

The stories are true in mythos, but many mythos have been associated. The message is there and it is good. However, good for what? If there was a clearer version of the truth would you take the truth of mythos or the truth of hard facts?

To each that choice is their own. Both are true.

reply to post by Grandma


G-d's covenent is still intact with Israel. It was a lasting covenent that was forever and so, even considering what is written in the New Testament, no where do I see that G-d banned Judaism for those who are still a part of that covenent and in fact, I see quite the opposite.

G-d will keep His covenent and personally, I found this comforting when I read it because christianity DOES teach that G-d broke the covenent when Israel turned away, yet *HE* said He would NEVER DO that. He would chastise them, but never would He break it.

G-d did NOT break that covenent with Israel and give it to the Gentiles. He was to be salvation for the Gentiles and that is what made a sect of the Jews angry because they felt they were special through their bloodline. They were not. They were actually the lowliest tribe on the earth and *G-D* made them special through that covenent.. but He did it to show the rest of the nations through the Jews that He is the only G-d, a Holy G-d, but a loving G-d.

When Israel turned their hearts against G-d thinking they were special because of the bloodline, G-d said He would keep the covenent, but that it would be a curse to those who exalted the bloodline over G-d and through that curse Israel (the ones who were misled) and the nations would ultimately still see Him, G-d through Israel.

Ladies and Gents, I give you "the state of Israel" led forth by the Zionists on the shoulders of the puppet America. He is allowing them to "show" how great they are and that they can rule without G-d because they had a SPECIAL bloodline and when they accomplish this, He will "be all up in their face." Intersting to note, it is a major christian movement (those who believe G-d is a covenent breaker and gave the covenent to them) who are helping push this state of Israel through. Thus they will be punished as well for not heeding what G-d said, but rather making things up to suit them. This is why I say, be careful of man's interpretation. Hear and know G-d's voice and what He said, for the events written down are taking place quickly.



[edit on 10-12-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


justamomma:

Unless I am mistaken, Israel is already a nation. And yes, I do view them as God's chosen people in a sense. We Gentiles got grafted into the VINE when Israel got a little too full of themselves. I believe that in the end what matters is that ALL nations and people will be able to be a part of GOD'S CHURCH.


Peace,
Grandma

I do not have a false faith.
The Bible(NKJ) is full of warnings about discerning false teachings,teachers and the fact that the world will hate you as a Christian(exceedingly bloody obvious).
Faith has nothing to do with intellectual arguments-I have a degree in Philosophy and Aesthetics(real handy,not)I wasted my time and ....it's pseudo-intellectual garbage!.The point is the nwo HATES and plans to ERADICATE Christians,why?The Vatican is central to this Beast System and the coming one world religion and the Sunday Law(why?).
"Religion" has been successfully infiltrated,perverted...religion has very little to do with Christianity.
When I was younger I had the misfortune to end up in the hands of my city's elitist satanists.I was naive that people could foster and act out such evil and murderous brutality with absolutely no mercy.They did and do.
In the west velvet toungued,velvet suited TELEVISION preachers have misled or repulsed masses of people,"Christian" CULTS have boomed and the media's been grinding it down for decades.To be anti Christ is now societally acceptable.The message that Christians are idiots believing in a fairytale has been successfully surplanted in the "collective consciousness" or "popular imagination" however people still turn to Christ daily and will continue to do so.
I just ask that the nay sayers read The Bible to grasp Christianity rather than dismissing it offhand.

reply to post by Grandma


Israel is recognized as a state yes, but the "nation" of Israel as was prophesied has not yet taken place. They are using our countries military to help rid the Holy Land of a people that have lived there in relative peace alongside both christianity and jews for centuries (if you research it, there are even priests of judaism that will attest to the zionist movement taking place and they are against it as well for they understand that this bringing forth of Israel is being allowed by G-d, but not supported by G-d ... as He made clear at the end of the old testament).

And yes, ultimately what will remain is a people of all nationalities living in peace and in the true light of G-d on earth; but Israel will still be the ones who will bring forth the words of G-d to the people on earth... just this time, no one will doubt because G-d will have destroyed those in the covenent who currupted the covenent and marred His Holy name.

The salvation was of the G-d's name, Israel, and their covenent so that they could be the light to the world that was and is in darkness, thus the covenent's purpose; and in that last part, we find our salvation.

Originally posted by Dontmakemebethe1
reply to post by Tayesin

 

The Sumerian writings, as far as I can discern from earlier posts seem to be written by the Sumerian people describing observations about their present world/universe as they saw or experienced it. So how does this compare to the canonized Holy Bible (no matter which version)? The inspirations were totally different.

In the Sumerian tablets in question we are told that the Anunnaki (those who from heaven to earth came) on their last visit here after the "Flood", called scribes from every tribe, nation and culture on the earth in order to have the history of the world recorded for all people's. This included information about the forces which created our modern Solar System, and, how long these processes took. Genesis in a nutshell.

But, the information recorded is far larger and presents much more detail than the Genesis we read in the Bible, as it also does with the genesis or creation of humans. Again, we can still read word for word in some places in the Bible where it has not been edited out. Another writing that goes into some detail here, but with far less clarity due to the overuse of religious supelatives/bafflements, is the Nag Hammadi Library.

Particularly of interest are the same terms used in the Bible, "Let us make man (a worker it says) in our Image" and "They have become as Gods".. spoken in the Council of Twelve (Elohim) by En-lil, the brother of En-ki the one given the task of the genetic program. Which by the way we are told took 50,000 earth years to go from asking the question, "What makes a thing in the image of itself?" to being able to provide worker drones that were initially Homo Sapien (not sapien sapien, Us). And which I think relates to the Neanderthal due to the fact that descriptions of these first workers fits the Neanderthal perfectly, although my Mentor disagrees with this perspective.

Originally posted by Dontmakemebethe1
... but explain to me the reason why the Sumerian documents would be more authoritative than say, the dead sea scrolls, or older Jewish works that weren't included in the Holy Bible. (or more authoritative than the Bible itself, which explicitly states that the words included and accepted into the bible should not be added to or taken away from)

My explanation is that the Sumerian Tablets predate the cultures you ask about. They provide detailed scientific evidence we now observe for ourselves, so why would we throw it all out when about 70% of it is proven?

Also, I personally think that last few lines you mention are additions, possibly made during the Council of Nicea which as we know was when the decisions were made to include or reject information based solely on the dictate of the then Emperor.. who's name eludes me at the moment, lol.

Originally posted by Dontmakemebethe1
I don't understand what the Sumerian writings have to do with the context of the Bible and how Christianity would be based on something other than what it has been based on for centuries, if we would accept the premise that something was lost or left out from these Sumerian cunieform writings.

They have to do with the Genesis of our world and it's people, providing greater understanding of the Demi-Gods involved in those processes whic provides clear perspective. It does not affect the messages of Jesus, his Intended meanings, or the God he spoke about, which is different to the one spoken of in the O.T. He spoke of the One, the Aware, Creative energy of our Universe that we can call God inside us.

Originally posted by Dontmakemebethe1
I hope that made sense and that someone can understand my question, b/c I don't know if it came out the way I wanted it to.

Yes, your questions make sense, do not worry, you are able to convey your meanings well my friend

OP, I thank you for pointing this out again. I am writing this while I am listening to Coast to Coast AM with guest Marshall Klarfeld. My site is dedicated to this research and it is great to hear him say exactly the same things I have posted on my web pages. I have done thousands of hours or research on this and there is no question. The Temple of Enki

Stared and flagged. Thank's again

reply to post by ydfocknowledgeseeker


The answer is simple...they are the largest entity that is pushing the "Trinity of Deception" on the human race. That is why they have so much power and remember that a huge amount of the money that is given to them has gone to the families of those the church has "injured". What I meant by Trinity of Deception are the three religions originating from Israel. The only reason they still exist is there terror tactic of eternal damnation.

Originally posted by ydfocknowledgeseeker
Can any religion answer this for me please

Why is the cathlic church the richest coperation in the world and has caused more deaths than any other in earths history.They have 2 billion followers if each of those 2 billion followers gave only one dollar a week over the years however many years they have been in power ,not to forget all texts they hide and treasures that they have looted all through out history wouldnt the church have the members and the wealth to make this planet truely a garden of eden?Now before u ask me for proof doesnt the pope talk to god do u ask him for proof or do u just sell your soul to a power hungrey human?

Because it is the church of Satan. They do not actually follow Jesus, as you have probably noticed yourself.

Revelations 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by badmedia]

It appears to me that there are numerous unenlightened and delusioned people willing to discuss something that they know practically nothing about.

There is ample evidence for true Christian faith if anyone desires to search it out. Likewise, there are copious amounts of corruptions over the millennia that anyone can choose to believe in.

As for the writings of the Scriptures, it is documented that the collected 66 books of the Old and New Testament are from numerous writers throughout history, yet there are signature evidences within the texts that bears a Divine origin; This is known as the Chiastic patterns. There are chiastic proses within a few short verses and chiastic parallels that engulf entire books. It is impossible that the writers of all of these books employed this method of writing, knowing that they were writing in chiastic patterns. The texts of the prophet Daniel explains in his own words that he does not understand what he was writing about.

www.chafer.edu...
www.666beast.net...

PLZ STOP CRUSADE IN INDIA

hello brothers & sisters,
Today in India ppl belonging to christian community most of them where foreigners are massively converting poor HINDUS in by spreading false information about the Hinduism and the old traditions which are not followed in India by any HINDUS NOW A DAYS , but strong political powers like Sonia Gandhi & other mean ppl are destroying the worlds most ancient peace loving religion which sees " Jesus" as saint who is a human like lacks of Hindu saints (SADHU,SANYASI OR GURU ). now POPE & other christian powers trying to make India christian country not by their believes BUT BY MONEY & POWER and AND " Christians never have good history they stand next to ISLAM when it comes to HOLLY WAR Or HOLLY CRUSADE TO SPREAD THEIR RELIGION USING VIOLENT STEPS LIKE KILLING, PRESONING AND HARASSMENT ,


" The Church had a special way of dealing with converted HINDUS who were suspected of not observing Christian rites with appropriate rigor and enthusiasm, or even of covertly practicing their old faith: “…the culprits would be tracked down and burnt alive.

THE GOA INQUISITION IS EXAMPLE FOR Christians , AND RAISES QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANITY

IN INDIA IT IS CONTINUING BECAUSE A HINDU SEES ALL RELIGIONS ARE EQUAL ,THE HINDUS MAY WORSHIP GOOD IN MANY WAY BUT NEVER SAYS TO PUNISH A HUMAN WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN HINDUISM .

A SO I REQUEST ALL THE BROTHERS AND SISTER OF WESTERN AND OTHER RICH COUNTRY NOT FUND AND SUPPORT ANY CRUSADE IN INDIA & HELP INDIAN HINDUS TO PROTECT THEIR CULTURE AND RELIGION

@@ THIS IS MANJUNATH THANKING YOU ON BEHALF OF EVERY HINDU WHO BELIEVE IN "VASUDEVA KUTUMBAM " ( ONE UNIVERSE ONE FAMILY ) @@

## NAMSTE. ##


YOU MAY VISIT : www.burningcross.net...

So basicly This thread is so popular lately I'm being spammed to death now? Some of these spam responces don't even seem to understand what I was talking about. Oh well, at 5+5+5... should I really worry?

reply to post by mr.m79


Heres how you can keep those pesky Zionists and Romans off your back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Originally posted by mr.m79
PLZ STOP CRUSADE IN INDIA

hello brothers & sisters,
Today in India ppl belonging to christian community most of them where foreigners are massively converting poor HINDUS in by spreading false information about the Hinduism and the old traditions which are not followed in India by any HINDUS NOW A DAYS , but strong political powers like Sonia Gandhi & other mean ppl are destroying the worlds " Christians never have good history they stand next to ISLAM when it comes to HOLLY WAR Or HOLLY CRUSADE TO SPREAD THEIR RELIGION USING VIOLENT STEPS LIKE KILLING, PRESONING AND HARASSMENT ,


" The Church had a special way of dealing with converted HINDUS who were suspected of not observing Christian rites with appropriate rigor and enthusiasm, or even of covertly practicing their old faith: “…the culprits would be tracked down and burnt alive

## NAMSTE. ##


YOU MAY VISIT : www.burningcross.net...

Thank you for posting this, it just goes to show how completely repugnant christianity can be and how totally demonic christians can get.

Unfortunately my friend much of the western world is up against the deluded,interfering self righteous sheeple aswell.

The best form of defence against the sheeple of the jesusgod is education, educate your children teach them to think deeply and reject that which does not have evidence.

Download these videos burn them to disc and spread them far and wide, your young people don't even need to be able to read to get to the truth.

Lobby your leaders to insist that the bibles carry certificate such as 18 or PG so should no be given to children, because of graphic scenes of violence, sexual violence,wichcraft, rape, pedophilia,homophobia,genocide,infanticide.The bibles should also carry a declaration stating it is based on fictional characters etc and should be categorised as fiction or mythyology, the same should apply to the quran.

Tell your people to demand evidence of all claims made by christians, don't be fooled by their sideshow magic demand that their god if real. Regenerate an amputated limb or completely eradicate cancer in one day.



REMEMBER, don't waste your discs giving these videos to christians, they are too afraid or brainwashed to study them objectively, save them to protect the uninformed from the curse of christianity.










[edit on 11-12-2008 by moocowman]

[edit on 11-12-2008 by moocowman]