"Kop Busters" in Odessa, TX

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Law Enforcement is crawling with criminals as bad as any they are supposed to protect us from. To not know that is pretty naive.

In HS, a friend of mine's dad was a DEA agent. I know my friend has lived with him in Mexico City and S. America. He could have been bragging somewhat but he wasn't the type to lie. He claimed his dad stole all kinds of stuff in raids.

Stealing a criminal's unlawfully obtained loot might be easy to justify in his mind, but it only made his dad a criminal too. Examples like finding 50,000 cash in some coke dealer's house but only reporting 40,000. Snagging expensive jewelry like rolex/cartier watches. I think LEO corruption is more prevalent than many would believe.

Originally posted by SuperTruper
Exactly... too bad we have so many armchair law professors here that don't actually know the law but think they do.

Yeah, like you????

Originally posted by SuperTruperA) They made the grow lights visible to the police patrols.

As far as thermal imaging, that one's up for debate. There's no law saying police cannot use it

I'm guessing by your name and attitude that you are indeed a "Super Trooper" aka law enforcement officer. And you sir, should retire or go work for Burger King. You want to talk about armchair law professors, where in god's green earth do you get your info????! YOU ARE WRONG. Get over it, accept it, ask your Boss at work tomorrow, whatever, you are ignorant to the law, as pointed out by BOTH above statements.

Umm..do you realize that there are actually people that grow vegetables inside? Did you know you can do it with the same lights that people grow marijuana with? I also was unaware that these grow lights gave off some crazy spectrum of light that was radically unique and different from any other household light that can be seen from the window?

4th ammendment, someone already posted the court case, you fail miserably.

You say 9 times out of 10 people who use a large amount of electricity are drug growers? Here is some real quick info for you...
Philips 42 in LCD Hi Def Tv uses: 236.38 watts
Panasonic Surround Sound Model SC-PT960 uses: 1250 watts
A gaming PC uses: 600watts or more (depends on your rig of course)
an Air Conditioning unit of 5000 BTU uses: 500 watts

..I included model numbers and what not so you can see Im not making this up. So, with just those things, NOT EVEN LIGHTS ON, no dishwasher running, no kids playing XBOX etc...you've got pops watching a football game on Saturday and moms upstairs surfing the net cause she hates football...THEY ARE USING 2586.38 WATTS!!!!! Oky, you got that Troop? Write that down.

Now here is a shocker for you...do you have any idea how much electricity people need to grow plants inside?? I know you don't , because you didn't know anything else... I looked it up and an average size indoor "grow light" uses 400 watts. No really, go to google and type in 'marijuana grow light' and you can find this link... www.bestgrowlights.com...

So this person could a) add another computer to their household for more wattage or b) grow marijuana inside with less power consumption and you're telling me that in this situation, 9 out of 10 times, situation A are the dopers? HAHAHAHAHA. You fail, miserably. This little hypothetical situation completely ignores the possibility of more than one tv, the monitor for the PC, and other appliances, so that 2586 watts is a low ball figure... So yes, you still fail....

Barry Cooper is an ex DEA agent. He quit because he felt awful for sending marijuana growers to prison when they were otherwise law abiding, peaceful, good people. Now, he lets everyone know what tricks the DEA uses to bust people. They weren't growing marijuana in that house, they weren't doing jack in that house that was illegal. The only, ONLY ONLY ONLY way to get the idea that something was up inside the house was to use FLIR imaging to pick up the heat signature on the light. Which as you know now, is unlawful. Barry Cooper knew this would happen, he did this for a living himself so he is fully aware of what tactics are used. Not to mention, they couldn't present a warrant at all! Let's just forget about how would they get a warrant, WHERE THE HELL IS IT??

IMO, nothing will come of it. The officers and DA and judges and everyone else involved go on as nothing happened. I think this is another situation where the injustice of our law enforcement is put right in front of us and all we can do is complain about how screwed up things really are...

Awesome story - Thanks OP for bringing this to our attention.

Violating a mans privacy is one of the most evil acts that can be done against human kind - That's why we have a 4th Amendment.

Our Second Amendment is for when they know longer adhere to all the rest.

Certainly all the cops in the raid are probably not criminals, but certainly the policies, procedures and leaders of that department are not following the law and there is at least one criminal amongst them corrupting the barrel.

I think it would be appropriate that the lead investigator should at least be demoted and I would be pleased to see the city or county sued for this action.

The only way to stop cops from overstepping their authority is to hold them accountable.

I think every good Constitutionalists should go out and buy a grow light and make some baddass tomato plants as I've heard they are one of the best and easiest indoor crops that you can eat & continuously have fresh produce.

While grow lights and high utility bills are certainly not illegal and should not itself be a means of probable cause, they do use it to further investigate people.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
I'd love to see the whole story and timeline here. If there was no false tip offs given to informants, than this really could be a 'really bad thing'(tm) for the local law enforcement and judicial system.

Well, certainly we don't know the whole story yet, and we may never, since the cops are probably going to lose the evidence against themselves.

However according to the Youtube news report posted on the 1st or 2nd page the operation lasted for 6 months.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

As far as I know, a citizen can't entrap the police anyways.

Again, as I explained further down the thread, that's why I intentionally placed 'entrapment' in those particular quotes - like scare quotes - to highlight the fact that I wasn't using the word in the regular sense. I was looking for an equivalent of 'entrapment', some kind of sting or honey trap or something.

I see nothing wrong with civilians setting up sting operations for corrupt police. After all, it's only the ones that are crooked that have to worry.



[edit on 8/12/08 by NuclearPaul]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
I see nothing wrong with civilians setting up sting operations for corrupt police. After all, it's only the ones that are crooked that have to worry.

[edit on 8/12/08 by NuclearPaul]

I agree. My own concerns was that the police might use some kind of 'entrapment' as a defence to get it thrown.

Originally posted by ImaNutter

I looked it up and an average size indoor "grow light" uses 400 watts. No really, go to google and type in 'marijuana grow light' and you can find this link... www.bestgrowlights.com...

Maybe, but marijuana growers usually have many, many different growlights which adds up, not just a single one. I've seen an indoor grow op in someone's basement and they had at least forty different growlights. That's more than 16,000 watts alone going by your 400 figure, and that doesn't include the wattage from other normal household appliances that were in use in that house.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
So this person could a) add another computer to their household for more wattage or b) grow marijuana inside with less power consumption and you're telling me that in this situation, 9 out of 10 times, situation A are the dopers? HAHAHAHAHA. You fail, miserably. This little hypothetical situation completely ignores the possibility of more than one tv, the monitor for the PC, and other appliances, so that 2586 watts is a low ball figure... So yes, you still fail....

You fail, because you are assuming that the marijuana growers will only be using one grow light, which is really unusual unless it's just some poor college student growing 1 or 2 plants.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
Barry Cooper is an ex DEA agent. He quit because he felt awful for sending marijuana growers to prison when they were otherwise law abiding, peaceful, good people. Now, he lets everyone know what tricks the DEA uses to bust people.

More than likely, he was fired because he didn't know what he was doing and was incompetent. Now he formed this kopbusters show for revenge.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency

While grow lights and high utility bills are certainly not illegal and should not itself be a means of probable cause,

And carrying a bloody chainsaw might not be illegal either, but it's sure going to arise some suspicion if I saw someone doing it.

A police officer obtains probable cause by anything that is suspicious to him. If an unusually high electric bill gives the officer suspicion that something "not right" is going on, that gives him probable cause to investigate the matter and clear it up.

now you're seriously just trolling

please on the behalf of ats

just go somewhere else to another thread or something, plenty of thread for you to defend cops to the death

or if you're really serious then im sorry but it really seems like you're just trolling

but again if im wrong then i apologize

but this whole thread seems to basically be you gong against everyone else in a futile attempt to win

right now its adding to the thread because people are giving great comments back to you, but im worried further trolling will turn this thread into a 30 page argument like so many other threads here, lets try to avoid that

Wait a minute now.

There is so much to this story that is left out from Barry's story.

Number one, and this is a big one;
Search warrant affidavits are PUBLIC RECORD. Instead of crying about how what the police did was possibly illegal and assuming they used illegal means to look in his house is just stupid when they haven't even ATTEMPTED to look at the original warrant or affidavit. Why are they assuming all this? Where is the public record affidavit that proves the police were wrong? Barry hasn't shown it because he is playing on all of your ignorance. He says "the kops wont hand it over"... Well no crap, the "kops" don't have it and even if they did, it is not their responsibility. It is on file with the county clerks office and available to anyone who walks up, asks for it and pays a small 10$ fee.

As a side note, why do cop haters spell it "kops"? Are they just stupid? Forget how to spell? Seriously, how is that insulting?

Second;

By his own admission, he set up lights "to make it look like he was growing marijuana". After that he had a buddy call in an "annonymous tip" that said he bought pot there and saw them growing it.
You are not allowed to get in your car, weave all over the road pretending to be drunk, have your friend call the cops and report you as a drunk driver, and then have you lawyer jump out of the trunk when you get pulled over screaming about "It's not possible for you to think he was drunk because he isn't drunk". You just can't do it. That is exactly what happened here.

Yes, FLIR is illegal, but only in MASS SEARCHES. It is really funny to me that no-one here has bothered to actually READ the supreme court decision, but hey, ignorance runs rampant on this site, despite the motto. Anyways, if any of you had bothered to actually try to learn about something before you talked about it like it was fact, you would see that once a tip is received, FLIR becomes legal to use on that particular house. It was treated like running a drug dog around a persons car, cant do it to everyone, just those that have a reason.

Third, who the hell says FLIR was used? There is no evidence for it at all . Barry is screaming about it WITHOUT EVEN HAVING READ THE AFFIDAVIT, witch will explain in detail how the warrant was approved and with what information.

I highly doubt that a town with a whopping 90,000 population even has a police helicopter, much less a million dollar system like FLIR.


This whole thing stinks from Barry's side.

I'm guessing by your name and attitude that you are indeed a "Super Trooper" aka law enforcement officer. And you sir, should retire or go work for Burger King.

See? I'm sure you had a decent post after this opening statement and may even have made some good points, but I didn't read it. Maybe try to ACT civil towards another human being, don't turn into an insulting jerk because you don't like cops. When you open your "argument" with a statement like that all you have done is suggest that you have no point to make and are trying to disguise it with hatred.

-----------EDIT-------------------

This just gets better and better. Now he is with-holding information relevant to the case in order to sell his movie about the incident(already in production) to whoever wants to know.

I will release all the facts of the case soon\ I am producing a movie about the entire incident.

Awesome. I bet it goes straight to video.


[edit on 8-12-2008 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
Internle affares takes care of the over-sight of the police.
As for raids where it turns out that the residence is innocent I'm sure the vast majority of people that were raided have it explained to them thee series of events that lead to the raid and understand how the police could make the mistake that they did.

Having the mistake explained afterward doesn't help if you're dead, and all too often people are being killed, even innocent people.

Check out this Google map if you want to see some of the results of what is going on raid wise. And this only lists proven human deaths, not damage, injuries, taserings, shootings of animals or unreported deaths.

I've had my home raided over hydroponic tomato plants and it was a terrifying experience. An off duty cop friend came over to protect me, (after promising to arrest me himself if I was breaking the law,) and caught them in the act of trying to plant evidence to justify the damage they'd caused.

They ripped out a gas heater, ripped off the skirting boards and made a hole in the ceiling. And I was just a young single mum trying to grow food that I couldn't afford to buy. I've never been keen on taking prescription drugs, let alone illegal ones. (However I do believe marijuana is an invaluable herb and criminalising it wastes a huge amount of manpower and money and only does harm.)

Rather than "explain", let alone apologise to me, they made life so tough for my copper friend he ended up leaving the force.

It's just a pity the videotaped cops didn't try planting evidence before they noticed the camera.

Originally posted by SuperTruper
A police officer obtains probable cause by anything that is suspicious to him. If an unusually high electric bill gives the officer suspicion that something "not right" is going on, that gives him probable cause to investigate the matter and clear it up.

Riiiiiiiiight. Problem is, many cops develop an "Everybody's Guilty" mindset, and have big fat chips on both shoulders. Their "authority" goes to their heads, and pretty soon everyone around them is a criminal, and should you actually be innocent and/or cognizant of your rights, the authoritarian cop with broad leeway to obtain warrants upon request soon becomes a tyrant abusing his authority. Under the system you're describing there is NOTHING to stop a grouchy LEO from harassing citizens with frivolous warrants just to "get back" at them for any percieved slight.

Seriously, if you're a real cop I want to know where, because I want to avoid that city permanently.


A couple of other thoughts on this:

First, has anyone considered any possible connections between an increase in police committing such abuses, and the rapid growth in privatized prison systems? Seems to me, it wouldn't be hard for private-or corporate-run correctional institutions to offer under-the-table "kickbacks" to law enforcement agencies who provide a steady stream of "product" (prisoners)--certainly, considerable incentive for cops to trump up charges and put more people away, especially if there's locals who have proven "troublesome" in the past (demonstrators, people who understand the law and don't just roll over and take it, etc.). Not an accusation, just something to consider. I think we all know by now how much agencies cash in on the stuff they sieze. It's not much of a stretch to wonder if they can cash in on the people they arrest as well.

Second, has anyone else considered building a home with walls insulated against FLIR? Not that I'm doing anything wrong, it's just that I KNOW cops with FLIR use it illegally, and personally I don't want a bunch of voyeuristic SOB's in uniform watching me while I'm on the toilet. Would FLIR-proof walls be considered "probable cause" to raid my home?

Third, how many of us would it take to lobby for new restrictions on FLIR use, including requirements that its use be automatically computer-logged upon activation, and that the log includes the direction, duration, any zoom/unzoom functions performed, etc. and that all these logs be available to the general public upon request and cross-referenced against any warrants issued? Frankly I'd tie that in with FAA oversight as well, in cases where it's mounted on helicopters.

And just so folks know where I'm coming from on this issue, my wife's brother is an ex-cop. I've had friends on my hometown local force since I was in grade school (the city police were generally good guys who actually followed both the letter AND the Spirit of the Law; it was the county mounties who were the wanna-be cowboys prone to abuses--unfortunately the last few years the city has declined under new leadership). I went to college for criminal justice--it was during my schooling that I finally learned (from people who had been there) that in most law enforcement agencies, I would have to leave my morals at the door in order to be a "team player".

I think it's time policing in America got a serious overhaul.

reply to post by nikolat23


They do... It falls under "probible cause" .........Unfortunatly.

This really comes down to two things that none of us have been made aware of and until we know there is no way to really determine right or wrong.

1. What was determined to be probable cause in this instance to issue the warrant.

2. Are the things causing them to say probable cause legally considered probable cause.

I know in my town if you were growing pot under heat lamps you would not be arrested unless they had solid proof of it.

Here they obviously don't use FLIR as last winter I got a bunch of heat lamps to try and grow habanaro peppers in my apartment just due to the fact it's not easy to get them where I'm at and I love them in food. Well I never got once questioned about them. Of course I didn't realize how big the habanero plants get lol...

reply to post by Merriman Weir


nope merrman, another person already covered this earlier. Entrapment comes when they are under duress of some kind from legal enforcement (dont quote me on that). basically, they were not entraped because they legally chose to do it and didnt have to.

So time to prosecute!

Originally posted by Bejing
Last time I drove through Odessa Texas all I saw were Tumbleweeds and c
Coyotes. Didn’t see any Charismas trees.
I liked the Big Sky though!

Oh yes!! Its nice when the wind blows and the tumbleweeds race across the flats out there. Once me and some friends took different colored paint and tagged a few tumbleweeds and held a tumbleweed wind race!!!


Ya it can get boaring out there that we would come up with silly crap like that! But it was fun!!!


Here is a tip for those who need to find a way to get through the economic crunch.

Those "Tumbleweed Christmas Trees" that can be found on the net?....guess where those tumbleweeds come from!!!!

Thats right...WEST TEXAS!!!

And there is NO shortage of tumbleweeds. Grab your truck and trailer, head on out to west texas and round em up!!!


Cheers!!!!

reply to post by SuperTruper


Well a high electric bill is hardly any reason to be suspicious. Consider this for a moment.

Odessa Texas is right in the middle of the West Texas oil fields. And there are literally a TON of independant welders out there. Just about every other truck you see on the road sports a mobile welding rig on them.

Alot of these welders also have welding equipment in their hobby shops. And is where alot of the "Pipe BBQ grills" come from, independant welders make them in their own shops as a side income.

Now if those cops out there have got nothing better to do than to go around looking at power meters, then they are in the wrong career and should go apply to TXU and Atmos Utility and become meter readers.

I have several friends in Odessa who are independant welders, and they always have large electric bills. Not just from their welding equipment, but because during the hot season, heh which is about 10 months out of the year, evaporative coolers do not work well at all, so they use refrigerated airconditioner units, which anyone knows, those darn things SUCK that electricity!!!

There are some good cops and bad cops, and some who just simply have nothing better to do. Perhaps they should get some cahones and start patrolling south Odessa, where all the gangs are and where almost on a weekly basis, a gang related killing occurs. Then maybe they will find their time better spent.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by SuperTruper


A police officer obtains probable cause by anything that is suspicious to him. If an unusually high electric bill gives the officer suspicion that something "not right" is going on, that gives him probable cause to investigate the matter and clear it up.

How does the officer get the bill to begin with? Do they just go down to the electric company, and rifle through customer files? Wouldn't that be illegal?

Originally posted by SpacePunk

How does the officer get the bill to begin with? Do they just go down to the electric company, and rifle through customer files? Wouldn't that be illegal?

Nope. You agree to let them do that in the contract you sign with them. Just because you have rights does not mean you can't sign them away.