Ridiculously High Number of Gun Deaths in US

I would like to see Micheal Moores data. That guy is a complete jackass (can I say that?), he really shouldn't be used as a source and his dvds are only good for leveling out your kitchen table.

sorry double post

[edit on 3-12-2008 by jd140]

make it a triple

[edit on 3-12-2008 by jd140]

OK, the US has about 80 to 100 million "legally" owned firearms.

I would love to see the ratio of legal firearms owned (per capita) vs / deaths by firearms in all of our civilized countries... LOL.

I can damn well guarantee in that ratio, the US will be very very very low on that list.

Still haven't seen original stats cited- it'd be nice.
Already well refuted. Yay 2nd Amendment!

I bet a National map would look exactly like the Red and Blue election map
here's one with a pro-gun bias:
www.gunmap.org...
this one actually goes against that but the data could easily be adjusted:
www-atlas.usgs.gov...

-but yeah, concentrated criminality, poverty, and also police doesn't help out the urban areas.
-And I know Obama's president but we shouldn't ignore the often very tense race relations in this country--we're too ethnically diverse.
-and how many gun in the US are misused by illegal immigrants?

Originally posted by RFBurns
I agree, most of those killings are gang and crime related.

I think you'll have a problem finding many murders that are not crime related.

Just saying.

reply to post by vox2442


True, but I bet the large number, when catagorized into "crime/gang related", "murders", "accidental"...that we will find that a majority that makes up the sum is from crime/gang related activity.


Cheers!!!!

my problem with gun death data is that every country collects it and sorts it under what they want to show.

in the US all gun deaths are lumped together.

cops shooting suspects
gang on gang
www.guncite.com...
drug related
www.guncite.com...
www.guncite.com...
accidents
www.guncite.com...
Suicides
www.guncite.com...


in many other countries police shooting are not listed
in some guns used in suicide are not listed.

The strangest thing in calif with its strict gun laws is that it is NOT illegal for someone in the US illegaly to possess a gun. It is only illegal for them to get caught trying to buy a gun at a gun store.

In calif someone can cross the border from mexico and the next week a cop can enter the place where the person is living and see a gun and can not Take the gun if no crime has been committed.
in most cases the person does not even have a form of ID that is legal.

Many guns are purchased by illegals using stolen identification
if you steal someone drivers license in Calif you can go to many places in larger cities and get a license with all the information from the stolen license and with your photo on it.
Then they just walk into a gun store and buy a gun.
If the person the license was stolen from has a clean record they have no problem.

There was a case near where i live where the cops found someone in a rest home with allzhimers.
yet someone has been buying 10 to 15 guns a month with his identity.

you know that these guns are going to criminals somewhere.
yet the cops don't seam to care that it is happening.
a officer from another department said there is no investigation ongoing.



[edit on 4-12-2008 by ANNED]

It's very simple really - the more guns that are in a society, the more gun related deaths there will be.
This includes homicide and suicide as well as violent crimes such as robbery.

GUNS AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

Guns and domestic violence make a deadly combination. A 2003 study indicated that the presence of a gun in the home made it 6 times more likely that an abused woman would be murdered than other abused women.1

Women as Victims in Firearm Homicides

In 2005, firearms were responsible for the murders of 1,791 women, including 1,089 white women, 636 African-American women, and 21 Native American/Alaskan Native, and 45 Asian-Pacific Islanders.2

In 2005, 1,181 women were killed by their intimate partners,4 accounting for over 30% of all murders of women.5

In 2005, 57 percent of women killed by their intimate partners were killed by guns.6

In 2005, 678 women were killed by intimates using guns compared to 147 men.7

From 1990 to 2005, over two-thirds of the spouse and ex-spouse victims were killed by guns.8

source

Think that most is criminal on criminal or citizens protecting themselves?
Think again:

# In 2005, 30,694 people in the United States died from firearm-related deaths – 12,352 were murdered; 17,002 killed themselves; 789 were accidents; 330 died by police intervention, and in 221, the intent was unknown. 6 In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,193 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War.7

# An additional 71,417 people were shot and survived their injuries -- 52,748 people injured in an attack; 3,190 people injured in a suicide attempt; 14,678 people shot accidentally, and 801 people shot in a police intervention.8

# In 2004, firearms were used to murder 56 people in Australia, 184 people in Canada, 73 people in England and Wales, 5 people in New Zealand, and 37 people in Sweden.9 In comparison, firearms were used to murder 11,344 in the United States.10

# In 2006, there were only 154 justifiable homicides by private citizens using handguns in the United States.11

source

Young lives being wasted;

# In 2005, nearly 8 children and teenagers, ages 19 and under, were killed with guns everyday.12

# In 2005, firearm homicide was the second leading cause of injury death for men and women 10-24 years of age - second only to motor vehicle crashes.13

# In 2005, firearm homicide was the leading cause of death for black males ages 15-34.14

# From 1999 through 2005, an average of over 1,000 children and teenagers took their own lives with guns each year.15

# Each year during 1993 through 1997, an average of 1,621 murderers who had not reached their 18th birthdays took someone's life with a gun.16

source

And then there's the cost to the US economy;

# A study of all direct and indirect costs of gun violence including medical, lost wages, and security costs estimates that gun violence costs the nation $100 billion a year.20

# The average total cost of one gun crime can be as high as $1.79 million, including medical treatment and the prosecution and imprisonment of the shooter.21

# At least 80 percent of the economic costs of treating firearm injuries are paid for by taxpayer dollars.

source

Some stats from 2001

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36
Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07
Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10
Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10
France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49
England/Wales (2002)0.15 0.2 0.03
Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02
Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0

These figures don't lie - there are more guns per capita in the US than any other country and more gun related deaths as a direct result of this.

And finally some suicide and firearms research data here

I understand why people want guns, but is there really a need?
In other words is it worth the risk of killing so many innocents in order that some people feel that little bit more protected.

In reply to Moonsouljah, the original stats I found I took directly from a clip in Bowling for Columbine. I tried to find the numbers listed and I couldn't as well either so I just watched some clips until I found what I was looking for.

On another note, I honestly can say I forgot they factor suicides into those numbers. No wonder they are so high..

Still, I wonder if it would be just as shockingly high for any other country if say, Canada, had the vast majority of all the guns in the world. I don't know..

There was a report that came out that said 1 in 5 Americans has a personality disorder, starting mostly in young adults.

www.cbc.ca...

Wonder how much a part that plays. I am trying to find similar findings in other countries but I'm having a hard time coming up with anything substantial.

I live in Chicago it is a pistol free zone that is not working and 911 is not an option. There are far more deaths by dui in the us than gun relatedand I don,t see them trying to stop the sall of booze, Is that because the Kennedy,s have there kick back from all the other distributors that sell in this country. The school s should have gun safty classes in them take away the infatuation with firearms and you have stopped a lot of accidental deaths, we have driver training.Wake up AMERICA the Japanese
didn,t land on our shores because the UNITED STATES citizens had to many guns in there houses

For comparison's sake, here are a few other numbers from the US to consider (all from 2005 and all from the CDC's website):

1) 2,653 people died from adverse effects of medical treatments or legal drugs.
2) 4,248 people drowned.
3) 20,426 people died as a result of falling.
4) 32,691 people died as a result of poisoning.
5) 13,920 people died from suffocation.
6) 43,667 people died in traffic accidents.
7) 927 people were killed on bicycles.
8) 5,772 people were murdered with weapons excluding firearms.

Link

I'm not as convinced that firearm deaths are as RIDICULOUSLY high as people want to believe. Its too high, but when four times as many are killed in traffic accidents and twice as many by merely falling, I'm less inclined to believe that its anywhere close to being as big a problem as you say. Much of it is gang-related in inner cities, anyway. *Nothing* will stop that.

Additionally, lets not forget that 8th number I've posted. In a given year, 30-40% of all US homicides are NOT committed with firearms. The evidence very strongly indicates that people will kill regardless of the weapon and that if you ban firearms, people will just use whatever else is convenient. About 6,000 of them already do that every year.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by vor78]

Germany -82,500,000/381 = 216,535
France - 61,500,000/255 = 241,176
Canada - 33,200,000/165 = 201,212
UK - 61,000,000/68 = 897,058
Australia - 21,000,000/65 = 323,076
Japan - 127,200,000/39 = 3,261,538
US - 304,000,000/11,127 = 27,320

That is the population of each country you listed divided by the number of gun deaths that you provided. Each final number is the number of people that there are per gun death.

I averaged a few populations but that is the general consensus...you can see that the U.S has a VERY high rate compared to many other countries.

The U.S also does have many poverty stricken areas, and since guns are not illegal here, could it be possible that other rates such as knife victims and such be at a much lower rate than those countries?

With that said...most of these deaths I would say are from gang related activities and such. Those of which that are not, well - hate to say it but if someone wants someone else dead it really is not that hard to do.

All of that taken into consideration, I would ALWAYS support our right to bear arms. Keep in mind - I do not even own one. If the time ever comes I think we would have a pretty big militia....but then again...

"Never bring a gun to nuclear warfare fight!"

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

I agree more than a hundred percent. And things would be a hell of a lot more worse if our rights and our guns were taken away. There would be nothing to stop a totalitairian dictatorship. Anyone that doesnt know this and disagrees is not paying attention. The National Rifle Association is not always in the position to safely convey all the facts that happen to be true. We have to know them. And with out our guns, house break-ins at night while we were asleep would GREATLY increase like the days of Newyork city. And the ellicit drugs on our streets cause all the angry murders! All the bloodshed of the past centuries DID NOT INVOLVE GUNS! And the poverty rate is a facter for sure! Take away guns and the big guy will always be the ruler. Well, you got knives and they will go into action again!!! Also, I was only finally able to safely walk the streets outside my home because I was old enough to buy a gun. Well, a good knife helped me too. And yes, dont pull out a gun in the middle of a nuclear war! The government might now be the biggest badguy out there. They really ARE THE ONES BEHIND THIS WHOLE ANTI GUN BULLSH__!! LOOK! They aren't going to give up theirs! Those f---ing DICKTATORS!! GOD DAMN THEM!!! DONT BE FOOLED!!!

Originally posted by Velvet Death
I just wish the ATF would lose the restrictions on military weapons. I don't know why you have to be in the military to have all the fun toys.

Yes you're right, every hick in America should have the right to own a set of
rocket launchers, M16's with grenade launchers, military big bore sniper
rifles and a stack of mortars, maybe some fosfor grenades too cuz they
burn flesh to a crisp in such a cool way.

Because Americans have proven to be so mature in their use of guns in the
past, yanno? It's time they finally get rewarded for their efforts in this area.

A small part of me thinks: "Fine, let them all blow eachother apart, the world
will be a much better and more positive place without them!" But that is just
a judgmental part of me that I am trying to work on and get rid of.

My heart and common sense tells me it is time to take away the gun from
the child, and ban the use of all types of fire arms, for all civilians, without
any exceptions or licenses possibly to be bought or gained. That is the only
right course of action, and I truly hope your new government will put that
into effect as fast as possible.

Your children and the next generation will be grateful to you, they will be
finally able to walk down the street without being shot for having eyed a
person wrong, or hit in the back by a stray bullet.

There is a HUGE difference between guns and knives, people.

In love and good hopes of a complete firearms ban in the USA,
and that includes hunting. No more killing animals for sports, it is
incredibly barbaric, and has no place in a civilized world. If you
really want to go kill a bear or deer, then grab a kitchen knife
and give it your best shot, at least then the odds are fair.

[edit on (11/1/09) by Wehali]

reply to post by Wehali


A blanket ban in the US would be about as effective as Prohibition was in the early part of the 20th century or the War on Drugs in recent years. Both were absolute disasters (and the War on Drugs is an ongoing US government mess). Most weapons used by criminals aren't legally acquired, anyway. Not only that, but criminals aren't going to hand in their weapons once a ban is in place. For that matter, neither will a large number of average citizens. All it will do is create an even larger criminal black market for firearms, while turning millions of otherwise law-abiding gun owners into criminals themselves.

That said, I'm sure that Obama will attempt to pass an 'assault' weapons ban in order to cater to the politically-correct crowd, even though handguns are used in just under 80% of all firearm-related murders in the US. I also expect it to receive a lukewarm welcome, even in the Democratic congress. They still remember what happened after they passed one in '94. There's no way you'll see a blanket ban in the US anytime soon, in any case.

Oh, and by the way, its not the 'hicks' that are the problem. Its those supposedly 'civilized' city dwellers. Rural areas in the US, by contrast, often have murder rates fairly comparable to most European countries.

In fact, US murder rates have been dramatically falling over the last 20 years. Its roughly half what it was in 1991. We still have some ways to go, but we've been making major progress, even in spite of all those darned gun owners.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by vor78]

reply to post by budski


And how many of those women killed by intimates were killed by intimates who were involved in gang related activities or doped up on drugs at the time? And how many of those young lives that were wasted and/or their killers were involved in gang related activities or were killed over drugs or drug money?

It doesn't excuse it happening, but the deaths of a good portion of those women and young people most likely involved gang activity or drugs. As was pointed out by another poster, crack down on the gangs and drugs and you'll save a lot of lives.

reply to post by Wehali

DO YOU REALLY BELEIVE THAT!?!? If they take away our guns and our rights THEY WILL HAVE TOTAL DICTATORIAL DOMINION OVER US! And for little guys like me ( I can not fight my way out of a wet paper bag) I will be terrorised by muscular bullies and punks all the days of my life. I never bother anyone. And if people are not to become total vegitairians, who will kill the live stock for food?! Considering you think that all hunters are BARBARIOUS, they have survived that way for millions of years! Home break-ins in the middle of the night while you are asleep! That will become a reality again! Just like NewYork city and all the places where the good guys and the working folks are not allowed to have a gun. Would you like to get knifed to death in the middle of the night by some stinkin drug addict? How are the cops supposed to protect ALL of us? Especially when your phonelines have been cut! People cry out to city hall and out comes a soldier, balalalalalaang! He fires a machine gun into the air to ward off the public! There goes democracy and freedom ofspeech! Now what do you hungry homeless victims do?????? It's people who see things like "banning all guns would begood"
IT ONLY LOOKS GOOD! Got the DEVIL on your side

reply to post by Wehali

Oh,,m,, I just went back and took another look and found that Wiheli (cant remember exactly how you spell it) is living OUT IN BELGIUM,,,,not here in the U.S.A. Probably read some over exagerated and distorted report on America and the right to bear arms. I dont know exactly what goes on out there in Belgium but there is not much need to be so concerned as to want to come over here and rake away all our protection. Us american people need worry about that. As a life long law abiding hard working citizen, I will keep my guns, knives and arrows and all that. And this anti Second amendment garb makes me sick. How about banning all nuclear bombs!! See, some people just LOVE to target the little working people and praise the predators. I'm sorry that I have to sound so crude but the world would be better off with out the sissy antigun TRASH. Wanna do some good, try banning the RICH AND POWERFUL and stop picking on us. Please.

reply to post by vor78

I'm sorry that we have these kind of folks who are simply mislead into thinking that totally banning guns would lead to a peaceful world. Only for the rich and powerful would it be peaceful, as they delightfully watch all us law abiding hard working people get beat up and robbed and raped and torchured be the strong guys, like those who got out of prison after twenty years of pumping iron and practicing fighting. We need to get rid of the hard drugs on the streets and work toward economic change. Yes, us "hicks" are not the problem, just the victim targets of this ANTI SECOND AMENDMENT CONSPIRACY!!