Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

reply to post by hannamtong


I'm guessing this is sarcasm... its hard to tell...

We all know that believers will not see logic, or science or anything to the contrary of their beliefs...

All atheists can do, is sit here, and watch our numbers grow. Atheists and Agnostics are already the 3rd largest "religion" worldwide, comprising 1.1 billion people (16%). (source) Using quotes because atheism is not truly a religion, instead is only classified as such for census purposes...

Something must be happening... these statistics were vastly different not more than a decade ago... Perhaps, as I've often pointed out, Religion is dying, and Reason is winning...

One can only hope...


[edit on 18-12-2008 by nj2day]

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by hannamtong

 

I'm guessing this is sarcasm... its hard to tell...

We all know that believers will not see logic, or science or anything to the contrary of their beliefs...

This isn't entirely accurate. There are clever theists who recognise science and logic and the shortcomings of the bible. I believe they are called deists. Decent people. Accepting, nice people.

All atheists can do, is sit here, and watch our numbers grow. Atheists and Agnostics are already the 3rd largest "religion" worldwide, comprising 1.1 billion people (16%). (source) Using quotes because atheism is not truly a religion, instead is only classified as such for census purposes...

Something must be happening... these statistics were vastly different not more than a decade ago... Perhaps, as I've often pointed out, Religion is dying, and Reason is winning...

One can only hope...

Hope and wait. I like that humanity is socially maturing out of this dogma.




I'm back in the saddle people!

Originally posted by Mr.Fletcher
I will tell you something that was a VERY interesting watch. Banned from the Bible. (BTW I am new so go easy on me, just heard of this site today) I want to say it was a History Channel documentry, but finding ALOT of what they said VERY interested.

There was "Two" Eves the first one had "free will" the second was obedient to Adam.

Welcome to ATS .
All the contrary myths and stories surrounding the Bible is another indicator that the whole concept of God is a myth.
I wonder how different our world would be if the Bible was made up of some of the other books you're talking about .


reply to post by Good Wolf


Welcome back.
I hope your absence didn't give you 'creationist nightmares'.
Those are the worst kind...
I had a nightmare that the whole world had converted to Christianity (I know, scary)...
Then I woke up in a cold sweat and logged on ats .

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Hope and wait. I like that humanity is socially maturing out of this dogma.

i believe it was Douglas Adams said

'mankind is mature enough to stop inventing new gods, but immature enough to not got rid of the ones we already made up'

looks like we just hit puberty and are growing up fast ^_^

cant wait till the 2009 batch of statistics are released. sometime between now and march PrexicKehdaki usually does a good job of compiling them on youtube

my moneys on 17.5% for america and i recon the UK is going up again too ^_^

I'm back in the saddle people!

woohoo welcome back mate ^_^

dumb ignorant post, the idea is that yes you have free will but God already knows the choice you will or have made there is no distinction between past future present to God or the soul it is outside of time like you know it, for example the workings of the universe may take an event to happen in a million years its relative yes like einsteins theory of realitvity to us its a million to god its a few minutes.

reply to post by Good Wolf
just one thing to say... me thinks thou dost protest to loudly! are you afraid you are not in total control or are you fighting the fact that you have been judged ? something you dont want to face about yourself?....or is it not politically corect!?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
-- Epicurus

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

-- Albert Einstein, 1954

If there is a God, It seems to be more like what Christians ascribe to Satan, than to Jesus Christ. At least according to the basic principles on which the universe works. And so the more of humanity who worships It, the more endangered we all become. a - j r m o o n e y h a m . c o m - o r i g i n a l

The "God" of the Christians, Jews, Muslims etc is a primitive mindset. Sort of like the natives in the movie "Joe vs The Volcano" with Tom Hanks & Meg Ryan.

The "God" concept, the Bible, The Koran, etc were all contrived ideals invented to control and manipulate the vast majority of man into subservience.

Organized religion has been behind many of the maladies that have plagued humanity and has blinded (on purpose) man from his true spiritual nature.

Read: "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley.

[edit on 21-12-2008 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by christimv

3. Yes, the Christian God exists.

Prove it.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

-- Albert Einstein, 1954

Is that the same guy that said something about God and dice?

The "God" concept, the Bible, The Koran, etc were all contrived ideals invented to control and manipulate the vast majority of man into subservience.

Yeah I can see how that works considering the vast majority of people are held subserviant through lack of education, extreme poverty, hunger and disease. I bet that is all religions fault too huh, and not humanities in general.

Organized religion has been behind many of the maladies that have plagued humanity and has blinded (on purpose) man from his true spiritual nature.

Point 'em out. Show the proof. Reveal mans true spirituality!
I love how easily people dismiss any belief in religion due to a lack of proof in God, and then offer their own explanations of religious origins as merely a conspiracy, a contrived manipulation that is accountability for historical or contempory wrongs. But wait, they then offer zip, nada, zero! Just words, umm and a book of their own that they believe. Hey, ain't the bible a book? Ain't the Koran A book. The Torah!

.......and wait for it folks here is our book........

Read: "The Gods of Eden" by William Bramley.

I have read it.


It was almost as biblical in nature as theTERRA PAPERS, but these are not the only things I've read.
I suggest you read "The Gods Have Landed: New Religions" By James R. Lewis. Or Tim Swartz on "From Angels to Aliens the Genesis of new religions".
Perhaps Cicero' Classic "The Natue of the Gods" the Oxford World edition by P.G. Walsh just for some historical philosophy on the topic.
Jason Culavito makes some remarkable observations regarding alternative archeology in "The Cult of Alien Gods" that i think relate to Bramley and Morningsky. At the time that the book was published he recieved some criticism about his comments relating to his belief that western culture was on the decline, I wonder if these criticisms need to be reviewed in light of our current predicament!

Anyway happy reading, I find your post ammusing, as you seem to have replaced the "Conspiracy GOD of religion" with that of Aliens as conspiritors to create religions as a conspiracy to control man, that you have absolutely no Proof off. Bravo. Close the casebook on God.









[edit on 22-12-2008 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by atlasastro

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

-- Albert Einstein, 1954

Is that the same guy that said something about God and dice?

NOO!!! Not that pile of crap again!
Albert Einstein mentioned God as many scientists do to please the mobs.
In the statements he makes about God, he does not mean any religous idea, he is simply using it as a word for the universe or "all that is".

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein was an agnostic/atheist.

www.skeptically.org...

Read it 5 times.
And tell all your creationist friends.
I'm tired of people claiming the man was religious.
Even after his death he gets this crap.

Einstein hated when athiests quoting him as proof of no god when he was alive now i guess he hates relieons for doing the same to prove thier god

he was agnostic/panthiestic id say

we learnt our lesson and accepted who he was and what he believed whats your excuse?



[edit on 22/12/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by TruthParadox

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein

Albert Einstein was an agnostic/atheist.

You are making the assumption that most atheists make; that he could not believe in a God because he was against religion.

The two are not synonymous! This is a hard fact to overcome, but true. We have to take into consideration the times he lived in.

Back then God was synonymous with religion. Spirituality is not something that was detached from religion in his time. Whereas now, usually one is spiritual without religion, as religion is a hindrance and is commonly ignorant.

He may not have known the difference! But...it is obvious that he knew there was something greater than us that produced the universe.

He, I believe was confused so he spoke out of both sides of his mouth. There is far more understanding now, regarding an attachment to the idea of God, without religion, but not back in his time. Religion and the Bible were too simplistic to him, and rudimentary.

Don't confuse the two!

[edit on 22-12-2008 by MatrixProphet]

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
But...it is obvious that he knew there was something greater than us that produced the universe.

And that something is nature.
He respected the laws of nature which we can't comprehend.
However, if you had read that link that I gave, you would know that he did not believe in a creator.

reply to post by TruthParadox

And that something is nature.
He respected the laws of nature which we can't comprehend.
However, if you had read that link that I gave, you would know that he did not believe in a creator.

You are right, we both read it differently. I saw his frustration with everyone who tried to tag him...the religious and the atheists. I stand by my perception.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

You are right, we both read it differently. I saw his frustration with everyone who tried to tag him...the religious and the atheists. I stand by my perception.

his religeous view throughout his life appears to have changed by world events from bordering but not quite athiesm agnostacsim pantheism deitism but never theistic

he was deffinatley frustrated

you should see some of the great letters he recieved from christian and jewish priests no wonder he was angry and frustrated, personally id have jumped in a car and gone kicked thier asses

Originally posted by TruthParadox

Originally posted by atlasastro

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

-- Albert Einstein, 1954

Is that the same guy that said something about God and dice?

NOO!!! Not that pile of crap again!

Did he say it. Yes. Crap yourself all you want.

Albert Einstein mentioned God as many scientists do to please the mobs.

Oh I see, it was to pander to the mobs when he spoke of a God, but when he critisized it, you are sure it was not pandeing to another Mob? BTW, Einstein did not pander to any mob. You have a nerve sir, to debase the man in such a way, far worse than my infering a religious belief that the man may have had.

In the statements he makes about God, he does not mean any religous idea, he is simply using it as a word for the universe or "all that is".

He does. It is a religious belief he has. It is called Pantheism.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein

Is this a direct quote relating the the one I use. That God does not play dice, that Einstein said.

Albert Einstein was an agnostic/atheist.

Wrong. Pantheist. Oh but schucks you spent all that time quote minning. Poor you.
www.skeptically.org...

Read it 5 times.

Once was enough. LOL.

And tell all your creationist friends.

What about my jaded ex creationist friends, like you.

I'm tired of people claiming the man was religious.
Even after his death he gets this crap.

Your are tired because you are wrong. Being right will make you feel better. Here I will give you a hand.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

(Albert Einstein, 1954)

We are part of Nature as a whole whose order we follow (Spinoza)

The word pantheism derives from the Greek words pan (='all') and theos (='God'). Thus pantheism means 'All is God'. In essence, pantheism holds that there is no divinity other than the universe and nature. Pantheism is a religious belief that reveres and cares for nature, a religion that joyously accepts this life as our only life, and this earth as our only paradise, if we look after it.

I believe in Spinoza's Godwho reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos. (Albert Einstein to Joseph Lewis, Apr. 18, 1953)

Uncomprehendable source of knowledge? Cause of harmony?


Man, Jesus, ghandi and Buddha must be high fiving right now!

The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)

To know that what is impenetrable to us? Really exists! WTF, Einstein and his conundrums. Sounds exactly like an Atheist, not.

I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)

Geez, he sounds like a damn creationist argueing the Foreknowlege paradox.

We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)

Awesome quote. No need for appeasing any mob here.

AND THE WINNER IS.........

In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214)

And Einstein even nails TruthParadox to a tee........

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. (Albert Einstein)

All you creationists, here is where you get a mention!

I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.202)

Alot of people feel this way.

It is no use trying to convince the others of our spiritual and intellectual equality by arguments addressed to the reason, when the attitude of these others does not originate in their intellects at all. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

I feel you Albert. I hope this was not just for the mobs sake.

reply to post by noobfun

his religeous view throughout his life appears to have changed by world events from bordering but not quite athiesm agnostacsim pantheism deitism but never theistic

he was deffinatley frustrated

I work in human behavior and study it diligently. I am really not sure that he knew WHAT he believed! This is the dichotomy. Theism is so attached to religion of which he detested.

He seemed to vacillate between a power with consciousness and pantheism.

Oh, how I wished he were alive!!

As I have mentioned to you before...I have met some renowned scientists that definitely believe in a power with consciousness. They are given the permission to think along these lines as; religion need never enter the picture as it did in the 50's.

We have the ability to imagine a different type of higher power than was formerly addressed or accepted. So our minds can be broadened to the concept.

reply to post by atlasastro


Thank you for your quotes! A *4U! You illustrated very well my post above.

I think we need to take him out of the black and white thinking! Perhaps he saw enough in his brilliance to understand that he didn't know, but was agitated with simple minds.

reply to post by atlasastro


Damn settle down.
You act as though I just ran over your dog .

Oh I see, it was to pander to the mobs when he spoke of a God, but when he critisized it, you are sure it was not pandeing to another Mob? BTW, Einstein did not pander to any mob. You have a nerve sir, to debase the man in such a way, far worse than my infering a religious belief that the man may have had.

When being asked by a religious journalist what your belief in God is, to say that you think that all Christians are wrong (in such a time) is not the best idea. He was smart enough to stay away from that and use the word "God" to express how he felt about the universe - but it is not the same definition of God that you would like to think he used . Was that not my point?

Methinks someone doesn't like being corrected .

Albert Einstein was an agnostic/atheist.

Wrong. Pantheist. Oh but schucks you spent all that time quote minning. Poor you.

You don't know that he was a Pantheist lol. He might have been and he might not have been. Either way, my point was that he does not believe in a personal God.
Did you not get that, or shall I repeat it?
When he said "God does not play dice", he was really saying "The universe and the laws that bind it does not play dice" - because he saw the order in the universe.

Shall I point your mistake out further?

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions"

-- Albert Einstein, 1954

to which you replied:

Is that the same guy that said something about God and dice?

But, as you so aptly point out in your post here, his word for God is not the same as the Jewish religion or any other god, deity, or religion - so your reply made no sense.
Which is why I corrected you right there.

Originally posted by atlasastro
Your are tired because you are wrong. Being right will make you feel better. Here I will give you a hand.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

(Albert Einstein, 1954)

umm... yeah... You just quoted what I quoted in my post to you...
Reading comprehension, much?

In essence, pantheism holds that there is no divinity other than the universe and nature.

Thus no belief in a personal God.
So I could argue that he was an atheist with a respect for nature and the universe - though he may have been a pantheist.
As I said though, I believe that he was agnostic.

And Einstein even nails TruthParadox to a tee........

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. (Albert Einstein)

Yep, you got me there.
I have not denied this lol.
One of the main reasons I'm doing this is because I was indoctrinated as a child, and many other people are. I would like to correct this. I wouldn't be surprised if you were indoctrinated as a child also .

"You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."

He said "you may call me an agnostic", so that's what I'll do.
I suggest you do the same, and drop this.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by TruthParadox]

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

He seemed to vacillate between a power with consciousness and pantheism.

Oh, how I wished he were alive!!

if he were he would probabily still do what he did then

step around the issue with a grace of the vague

and never really give an answer as it was between him and what ever if any form of god he believed existed

As I have mentioned to you before...I have met some renowned scientists that definitely believe in a power with consciousness. They are given the permission to think along these lines as; religion need never enter the picture as it did in the 50's.

the view is generally as long as what ever you believe doesnt interfer with your work and you dont start using magic and mystacism to explain things you can believe pretty much anything you want

still doesnt mean you should believe everything and anything though

as the phrase goes "of course be open minded, but not so open minded your brain falls out"





[edit on 23/12/08 by noobfun]