Evidence in Scripture disproving god once and for all

reply to post by noobfun


Noob, to be a SAUDI CITIZEN you have to be MUSLIM. PERIOD!
THERE ARE NO OTHER religions there according to that government!
U.S. Department of State

Islam is the official religion, and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims.

REMEMBER my link about the woman burned alive for converting to Christianity by her father, a public official?
Don't ignore truth, it can make you stupid.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Clearskies

Noob, to be a SAUDI CITIZEN you have to be MUSLIM. PERIOD!

yes exactly

you can still live there as a none muslim you have a gurest status identical to how christain germeny did it in 1939

if you wernt a christian and arian you were a guest

commnuists guests by law
athiests guest by law
jews were guests by law
any other faith guest by law
none arian christain guests by law

this has a lower legal status but does not make it a crime

and as the quotes show that you didnt read ole bush snr wanted to drop the legal status of athiests to below citizenship

THERE ARE NO OTHER religions there according to that government!
U.S. Department of State

Islam is the official religion, and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims.

there are other religeons but islam is the only one allowed to practice in public everyone esle must do it behind closed doors

watch out when your swimming in deNile those crocodiles bite

dont look at this though

www.time.com... you may have to eat your words

REMEMBER my link about the woman burned alive for converting to Christianity by her father, a public official?

did you look up that documentary i told you about on youtube? saving africas witch children?

really want to pull out lists and play compare of who did what? the missionaries did a great job of enslaving people or refusing to help them with medicine until they converted, shall i drag all those out?

islam is as guilty as christianity in the killing folks game possably more so christianity they had 600 more years to get a good head start and they lay calim to all the OT massacers to by callsing that as a christian book

Don't ignore truth, it can make you stupid.

couldnt have said it better maybe try it once in a while?



[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by noobfun




Noob surely you are not saying that Hitler and Bush Sr were Christians (like the real ones) ?? They were SKULL AND BONES ...ARYAN NATION crap ...which they used CHRISTIANITY as a cover to make it so people like you would always accuse Christians of exactly what you do now ....every single evil act done is all the fault of Christians and their Christian God ..Dont you see satans elaborate plan worked very well on you .........and on most of the world .

Hitler and Bush Sr or Jr ..are about as Christian as Charles Manson is ...NOT.
Enough said .....

Sheeshh ..surely your not that naieve(dang cant spell that word either) are you

reply to post by Simplynoone


did they accept and love jesus? yes yes they did with all thier hearts


Mark
16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned

John
8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John
14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Acts
16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Romans
8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

sorry they meet all the criteria theya re friends of jesus and he loves them

and as romans say a christian can never be judged to have done anything wrong as they stand with god, so stop judging them or you will make god angry

Dont you see satans elaborate plan worked very well on you .........and on most of the world

well satan is doing gods work he is a tool of god so anything he does is of god ^_^



[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

The healthier aspect of this thread is the thumbing between the pages for those involved.

and if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light to those in darkness, 20an instructor of ignorant people, and a teacher of infants because you have the full content of knowledge and truth in the law — 21as you teach others, do you fail to teach yourself?

The teachers become the students, and what one of us in doing so has not recognized that which our eye has passed over before.

When pondering God, one can debate whether one has found him. Yet in another place, it is written, perhaps God has already found you.

Peace

[edit on 5-12-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


It's also written "Man may just be a thought in the mind of God, or God may just be a thought in the mind of man."

Hey guys! I have a new thread which may not tickle your toes as it's another Bible one, but it offers something a little counter to this thread!

Go here or go to jail!

reply to post by MatrixProphet


I'm not sure you are allowed to advertise other threads in posts.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Well, I have certainly seen it done countless times! I have done it myself several times. Hopefully it is okay. Thanks for telling me.

Originally posted by noobfun
did they accept and love jesus? yes yes they did with all thier hearts

sorry they meet all the criteria theya re friends of jesus and he loves them

and as romans say a christian can never be judged to have done anything wrong as they stand with god, so stop judging them or you will make god angry

Dont you see satans elaborate plan worked very well on you .........and on most of the world

well satan is doing gods work he is a tool of god so anything he does is of god ^_^

Who you talk of are those without understanding. They did not have John 14 happen to them, and thus they did not have the holy spirit, and did not have understanding.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


Yea, I'm guilty on that too. I've done it, but I've seen people talking about people getting told off for it.

I flagged your thread

Originally posted by badmedia

Who you talk of are those without understanding. They did not have John 14 happen to them, and thus they did not have the holy spirit, and did not have understanding.

how do you know that?
can you prove it?
or just a way to distance them from your book of choice?

they accepted and love jesus and god, the bible says that is enough to be saved and considered christians

so romans applies

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Noob surely you are not saying that Hitler and Bush Sr were Christians (like the real ones) ?? They were SKULL AND BONES ...ARYAN NATION crap ...which they used CHRISTIANITY as a cover to make it so people like you would always accuse Christians of exactly what you do now ....every single evil act done is all the fault of Christians and their Christian God ..Dont you see satans elaborate plan worked very well on you .........and on most of the world .

God doesn't need any help from Hitler... If he exists, he's commited more acts of genocide than Hitler could hope to accomplish in a million years.

You say that this is Satan's elaborate plan, but if it is Satan's plan than it's also God's. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then he made Satan how he is and forsaw what would happen, therefor everything Satan does is according to God's plan. So is it God's plan to make us think that God is evil?
Or does God simply not exist?

Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by badmedia

Who you talk of are those without understanding. They did not have John 14 happen to them, and thus they did not have the holy spirit, and did not have understanding.

how do you know that?
can you prove it?
or just a way to distance them from your book of choice?

they accepted and love jesus and god, the bible says that is enough to be saved and considered christians

so romans applies

I know that because it happened to me. And it happened to me when the bible was the last thing in my mind. It all started with John 14:20. When I felt and understood that connection everything I understood changed dramatically. I was trying to explain the things Jesus says to people and I never mentioned or knew that the bible said the same things. The first time I saw John 14:20 just in a random quote I nearly feel right out of my chair.

The only way you will know if it is true or not is to experience it for yourself.

All you are doing is trying to pigeon hole people into a certain belief set so that you can point out the holes in those beleifs sets. But to do so is to spread ignorance for your own purposes. You purposely ignore any other understandings and will only debate the worse points.

This is no different than the kind of crap the media pulls all the time. Take a bunch of people with actual points over some issue, then find a couple of people who show it in a bad light, and highlight the few bad people as being representative of everyone there. Kind of like a medical marijuana rally, and people with real issues trying to get things out, throw a couple of teens in the front saying "I dunno man, I just came to get high" and the media focuses solely on the teens.

That is all you are doing here, no different. Just like them, you also can not handle independent thinking, and figure everyone must fit into the stereotype.

Check out the Jesus vs Paul thread on here. Obviously not everyone subscribes to the simplest dogmas you get such pleasure in poking fun at. I don't take it very easy on Paul.

And personally, the fact it's always Romans and the teachings of Paul that get pointed out - and what is said is true. It is just more proof to me that stuff is not the true meaning behind things, but a manipulation that was used to control and blind people to the truth and then the manipulation could be used to discredit everything, and the entire message is rejected and thrown out by society. Just as you do now, just as I did before I gained understanding.

So that once people see the evil in the church and in the words of Paul, they will reject the words of Jesus that Paul was attached to in the process. Is that not what has happened?

But why should I or anyone else allow what was attached to it ruin what the true meaning was, rather than separate the differences between the 2? And why is it that both hardcore christians and people such as yourself feel the need to make it all or nothing? Why do you not realize that when you put that what you know to be false as representing something, that in the process you are telling a lie?

Why is it that neither of these sides you like to put things into context of for your arguments actually allow for a personal relationship with god?

Are these ways really any better than those who you point fingers at? Are you being more open minded when you only allow 1 belief to be what something is talking about?

reply to post by Good Wolf


Thank you! Well, your thought is right and I apologize to nj!
I am interested in any new slants. I have really enjoyed this thread. If nothing else we were able to show that a believer can get along with an atheist and visa-versa.

Originally posted by badmedia
The only way you will know if it is true or not is to experience it for yourself.

I understand the whole 'personal experience' argument. If I had one, it would be hard to discount... But the truth is, if personal experiences were worth anything, than every belief you could imagine would be true. When you put it under the microscope, however, you find that emotions are extremely fallible.

Originally posted by badmedia
All you are doing is trying to pigeon hole people into a certain belief set so that you can point out the holes in those beleifs sets.

I believe that is the point of the thread. No one can disprove God, however, one can disprove the Bible's version of God, as if you look at the whole thing, not everything the Bible says can be true at once due to the contradictions.
Your personal view of who/what God is can not be disproven unless you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. However, there are still logical arguments against any god.

Originally posted by badmedia
This is no different than the kind of crap the media pulls all the time. Take a bunch of people with actual points over some issue, then find a couple of people who show it in a bad light, and highlight the few bad people as being representative of everyone there.

If you don't believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God, then none of the contradicting scriptures I give you will mean anything to you. Of course we disprove the core of Christianity, because it's the easiest to disprove and the most widespread.

Originally posted by badmedia
Check out the Jesus vs Paul thread on here. Obviously not everyone subscribes to the simplest dogmas you get such pleasure in poking fun at. I don't take it very easy on Paul.

Good, then you don't believe that the Bible as we know it today is perfect. So then how do you know which scriptures are accurate? If the Bible is not infallible, then which parts are and which parts aren't? You'll probably say something along the lines of 'divine revelation'. That's fine, but don't expect that to hold up in an argument. Peope have had 'divine revelations' to kill others...

Originally posted by badmedia
And personally, the fact it's always Romans and the teachings of Paul that get pointed out - and what is said is true. It is just more proof to me that stuff is not the true meaning behind things, but a manipulation that was used to control and blind people to the truth and then the manipulation could be used to discredit everything, and the entire message is rejected and thrown out by society.

If God is omnipotent, it would be a very simple task to have an infallible book written concerning him and his nature so we would have something concrete. Ever wonder why this is not the case?

Originally posted by badmedia
But why should I or anyone else allow what was attached to it ruin what the true meaning was, rather than separate the differences between the 2? And why is it that both hardcore christians and people such as yourself feel the need to make it all or nothing?

Because if the Bible does have flaws, then it is not infallible. If it is not infallible, then our understanding is based on assumption, as we have to pick which scriptures we think are truly from God. What % of the Bible is actually from God? 50%? 40%? There's no longer a logical reason to believe any of it if the rest contradicts itself. It's like me asking you why you wouldn't believe someone who constantly lies. He may be telling the truth now, but that would be an assumption.

The Bible paints two different versions of God. A maniacal, angry, wrathful God, and a forgiving, loving, cookie giving God (who ironically still sends you to Hell for a belief). But who are you to say that one version of God is more accurate than another?

Originally posted by badmedia

I know that because it happened to me. And it happened to me when the bible was the last thing in my mind. It all started with John 14:20. When I felt and understood that connection everything I understood changed dramatically. I was trying to explain the things Jesus says to people and I never mentioned or knew that the bible said the same things. The first time I saw John 14:20 just in a random quote I nearly feel right out of my chair.

but that in no way means they didnt your stil just saying they didnt

All you are doing is trying to pigeon hole people into a certain belief set so that you can point out the holes in those beleifs sets. But to do so is to spread ignorance for your own purposes. You purposely ignore any other understandings and will only debate the worse points.

understanding comes through evidence not faith or belief, got any?

how is this pidgeon holeing? the believe and love jesus that makes them christians as they follow(ed) all the dogma that goes with it

This is no different than the kind of crap the media pulls all the time. Take a bunch of people with actual points over some issue, then find a couple of people who show it in a bad light, and highlight the few bad people as being representative of everyone there.

red herring? yes think so and an ad hominim

Kind of like a medical marijuana rally, and people with real issues trying to get things out, throw a couple of teens in the front saying "I dunno man, I just came to get high" and the media focuses solely on the teens.

more red herrings this relates in anyway to what i have said on the topic how? it doesnt

That is all you are doing here, no different. Just like them, you also can not handle independent thinking, and figure everyone must fit into the stereotype.

please independant thought? believing a book without actually knowing most of it is independant thought? denying they cant be christians becasue i dont like them is independant thought?
ad hominims red herrings and poor analogies are independant thought?

rehtoric is anything but independant thought

Check out the Jesus vs Paul thread on here. Obviously not everyone subscribes to the simplest dogmas you get such pleasure in poking fun at. I don't take it very easy on Paul.

good he doesnt deserve an easy life

And personally, the fact it's always Romans and the teachings of Paul that get pointed out - and what is said is true. It is just more proof to me that stuff is not the true meaning behind things,

so you missed ALL the other quotes? ya know all the ones i made from the gospels? cherry picking much?

but a manipulation that was used to control and blind people to the truth and then the manipulation could be used to discredit everything, and the entire message is rejected and thrown out by society. Just as you do now, just as I did before I gained understanding.

no you gained faith unless you have evidence?

i throw it all away becasue its all corrupt edited or fraudulent, any glimer of truth has long since been changed if there was any to begin with

So that once people see the evil in the church and in the words of Paul, they will reject the words of Jesus that Paul was attached to in the process. Is that not what has happened?

nope

when people reject it its usually for the whole thing OT and NT so i guess your mistaken

But why should I or anyone else allow what was attached to it ruin what the true meaning was,

its all(NT) been added too and altered and editted and copied from one another and mistranslated

rather than separate the differences between the 2? And why is it that both hardcore christians and people such as yourself feel the need to make it all or nothing?

honesty

Why do you not realize that when you put that what you know to be false as representing something, that in the process you are telling a lie?

good job im presenting what i know to be false as false then so no lie required

Why is it that neither of these sides you like to put things into context of for your arguments actually allow for a personal relationship with god?

pdgeon hole mutch? most christians beleive in a persoanl god so you seem to be off the mark. and as i dotn believe in any god its imposible to have a personal relationship unless you like talking to imaginary friends

Are these ways really any better than those who you point fingers at? Are you being more open minded when you only allow 1 belief to be what something is talking about?

the fact i question and explore would indicate yes an open mind is there, if im disproven im disproven i work on facts and truths not faith and belief

but calling pidgeon hole then doing that same action
calling foul then fouling
make your way worse have a nice day

[edit on 5/12/08 by noobfun]

The Christian Bible, both Tanakh and New Testament, are anthologies and no one true book. The inconsistencies are easily attributed to different authors penning different books. I would argue that the Tanakh is in some ways incompatible with the New Testament; thus, only the New should be used in regards to Christianity in a unique sense. The validity of the text really isn't a smoking gun against the existence of the Christian God. It is possible that the Bible is simply a result of human imperfection. The God might also be an egregore, a entity brought into existence from human belief. I think this really is an unanswerable question which will continue to remain subjective. I think sighting a religious text as reason for there definitely being or not being a god is ridiculous. I find belligerent atheism and religion both very obnoxious. I wish there were more agnostics and "seeking" religious.

[edit on 5-12-2008 by VicSage]

reply to post by noobfun


NO THEY DID NOT ..because if they did for real they would not have done the things they did Noob ...now just stop it ...You know that Jesus was not behind that madness .....

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I understand the whole 'personal experience' argument. If I had one, it would be hard to discount... But the truth is, if personal experiences were worth anything, than every belief you could imagine would be true. When you put it under the microscope, however, you find that emotions are extremely fallible.

The only thing you will take as proof is in the form of the external and what the senses can provide for you. However the connection to god is internal, not external and that is where you can see god. If you keep look in the external, you aren't going to find god.

As such, it is not something I can even being to prove to you. It's just something you have to experience and see for yourself.

I believe that is the point of the thread. No one can disprove God, however, one can disprove the Bible's version of God, as if you look at the whole thing, not everything the Bible says can be true at once due to the contradictions.
Your personal view of who/what God is can not be disproven unless you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. However, there are still logical arguments against any god.

When I said pigeon hole I meant that he says I have to take the book of Romans in what I believe or I'm not a true christian. I've had this discussion with him before, and he always does the same thing. He suddenly starts sticking up for the mainstream christian belief and paints anyone who doesn't go that way as not being a believer. He only wants to argue against those without understanding like the mainstream belief system.

There are no logical arguments against god, only ignorance which takes our own unique and limited perspective as being representative of all which there is to perceive. At best, the only argument which can be made in honesty is - I do not know.

I do not believe in god because of some book. Again, this is just another stereotype that is used against people. I believe the book has truth in it with the words of Jesus because I already know god. I do not take authority as truth(the bible says so), I take truth as authority(where the bible speaks truth it is correct).

If you don't believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God, then none of the contradicting scriptures I give you will mean anything to you. Of course we disprove the core of Christianity, because it's the easiest to disprove and the most widespread.

Where does Jesus ever say this to be true? Never. I believe the words of Jesus to be the word of god. Not the entire bible which was written by men.

Good, then you don't believe that the Bible as we know it today is perfect. So then how do you know which scriptures are accurate? If the Bible is not infallible, then which parts are and which parts aren't? You'll probably say something along the lines of 'divine revelation'. That's fine, but don't expect that to hold up in an argument. Peope have had 'divine revelations' to kill others...

The words of Jesus are accurate. The rest is just how people understand it.

But when someone does not believe in the entire bible. And no, I did not understand the words of Jesus at all until I had understanding. That is revelation.

If God is omnipotent, it would be a very simple task to have an infallible book written concerning him and his nature so we would have something concrete. Ever wonder why this is not the case?

I would say if god is omnipotent, then why would he be limited to just a book when you can speak directly to him? It is not just about having the "word" it's about understanding. They had the commandments before Jesus, Jesus brought understanding of it. It's not just about memory, it's about understanding. Stuff that is actually useful.

Because if the Bible does have flaws, then it is not infallible. If it is not infallible, then our understanding is based on assumption, as we have to pick which scriptures we think are truly from God. What % of the Bible is actually from God? 50%? 40%? There's no longer a logical reason to believe any of it if the rest contradicts itself. It's like me asking you why you wouldn't believe someone who constantly lies. He may be telling the truth now, but that would be an assumption.

The Bible paints two different versions of God. A maniacal, angry, wrathful God, and a forgiving, loving, cookie giving God (who ironically still sends you to Hell for a belief). But who are you to say that one version of God is more accurate than another?

Not all things done in the name of god are the workings of god. Surely you have figured that out on your own. The man who is rich in the eyes of god is the man who has wisdom and can determine right and wrong for himself. If you can see the contridictions in the bible, why must you throw it all away, or accept it all if you have the wisdom to decide for yourself what is true and what is not.

And of course, there are more than 1 god in the bible. There is the god/ruler of this world, and there is the true god.