U.S. Military Recruit? Here is how you will be respected.

Originally posted by rcwj75

So shes a cow because

You're right. I shouldn't have called her a cow. I think cows are fairly gentle animals. I'm going to modified it to vermin...I believe they eat their own young.

My bad.

While at basic training she can ask for a supervisor that is above the Instructors. Maybe just start by asking for the 1st Sargent as they usually can get things done.

Tell her once she leaves Basic Training, if the problem isn't resolved, to contact the base OSI (Office of Special Investigations). They are not necessarily confined to just one branch of the military they can pretty much investigate anything within the military and often times are civilians.

Either way a commander gets a call from OSI someone is getting fired or jailed. I had never heard of them before, until we had some problems on the base and I ended up getting stuck in testifying against someone. The base I was on the OSI turned out to be contracted civilian private detectives. There was one active duty one also.

Just a couple routes that could be taken but I highly suggest she go in the order of:

1. Talk to the first Sergent on the base.
2. Talk to the Officer in charge of her section/Unit.
3. Talk to the base commander.
4. Contact the OSI.

If she goes out of the order I listed she could get in a lot of trouble for not using the chain of command.

Originally posted by rcwj75
Hate to be this way but the military IS NOT college. Your training is hard and diciplined for a reason. Now mind you it was MP basic which is not very difficult compared to some but still challenging and serves a purpose due to the MP role in todays military.

Basic/AIT are designed to SEPERATE you, TEST you, PUSH you, etc..on your physical limits but more importantly your emotional limits. When your sent to a combat zone where EVERYTHING your used to, or use for motivation or convienence can be taken from you, and you find yourself on your own...NO SUPPORT...NOTHING... is your mommy gonna save you, write a letter, etc...NOOO..YOU are going to save you, and the soldier next you you is going to save you...having mommy and daddy come to your rescue when something tramatic happens does nothing but prepare you for a bad ending and failure to adapt to situations.

Now I understand the meaning and value of that photo, and I feel bad that it was destoryed but your daughter went to basic and AIT and should of went understanding 2 things. 1. this is no joke, you don't join the MILITARY like you join a club or run off to college and think you can do things YOUR way...and 2. it is only 16 weeks long, then you can have ANY and ALL pics you want anywhere you want....so IMO no pics were needed...or should be needed for such a short term seperation....and if you can't handle that short of a term away from home ALONE/WITHOUT pictures and other reminders, then you should reevaluate your understanding of what the military is about.

We all experianced tough times and challenges in some shape or another...but sorry a MILITARY should not change its way or role just because people don't like the way things are done. Thats the reason why the military has become softer and much less effective over the years...we allowed mommys and daddys to complain rather then let the military harden their children...we worry more about a female crying because she got yelled at to much or was offended then her sucking it up and worrying more about being in combat when/if she graduates Basic/AIT!!!

The military isnt a 9-5 job, it isn't college, it isn't the boy scouts, it isn't some club or orginization...when you sign that line you NEED to know what it is your doing..and if you dont ASK!!! Don't cry about it after you join and don't like it...

So she was supposed to save her self from her picture with her dad????
Most of what you say is just duh common sense, but this person of authority obviously is a power hungry B***h.
I really and truly hate our leaders and military.
They are arrogant, iggnorant, mean, and don't give a crap about anybody but themselves or their own families. Your family means absolute Sh*t to them but they value their own.
These are the type of people that are so ingrained into the system that that can't put 2 and 2 together for themselves and realize they are being mean for no reason except to be mean.

Originally posted by Darthorious
While at basic training she can ask for a supervisor that is above the Instructors. Maybe just start by asking for the 1st Sargent as they usually can get things done.

Tell her once she leaves Basic Training, if the problem isn't resolved, to contact the base OSI (Office of Special Investigations). They are not necessarily confined to just one branch of the military they can pretty much investigate anything within the military and often times are civilians.

Either way a commander gets a call from OSI someone is getting fired or jailed. I had never heard of them before, until we had some problems on the base and I ended up getting stuck in testifying against someone. The base I was on the OSI turned out to be contracted civilian private detectives. There was one active duty one also.

Just a couple routes that could be taken but I highly suggest she go in the order of:

1. Talk to the first Sergent on the base.
2. Talk to the Officer in charge of her section/Unit.
3. Talk to the base commander.
4. Contact the OSI.

If she goes out of the order I listed she could get in a lot of trouble for not using the chain of command.

I would like to add one thing to this she should first talk to the DS before going to the First Sergent than ask to go to IG because they can and will investgate the whole situation.

I may come off like an ass, but don't you think this is mostly your daughters fault?

She was told ahead of time that she was not allowed photos that had people that were not completely dressed ahead of time, but she still took the photo. If it was really that important to her then I would think that she would have had every bit of that photo memorized. She should have left it at home and taken another one of her father, I know you must have more then just that one.

When I went to basic they had a huge dumpster rolled into the reception hall where any and all contra band was thrown into it. It did not matter what it was. That is why soon to be soldiers who head off to basic are told ahead of time what they can and cannot bring. She should have listened and packed accordingly.

I remember being told that I should not get a hair cut before I go because I would be getting one regardless if I needed it or not. I didn't get one, but there was a guy there with a freshly shaven head, completely bald. He still had to sit in the chair and have the clippers run over his head.

They do not make any exceptions, they assume and rightly so in this case, that they are told ahead of time what to bring and what not to bring. She chose to bring something she was told she cannot take and suffered the consequences. Her fault not theirs. Don't worry though, they will teach her personal responsibility.

Good morning. I would like to apolgize for how you and your daughter have been treated. unfortuneatly the likes of that D.I. and and Mr. R.C.W.J.75 are becoming more common. They think what they been through makes them better, and their egos and hypocricies blur lines. He thinks nothing of your troubles, but can't wait to reiterate his hard times over and over OK you went to basic and Adavanced infantry training, wow! He says this is just preparing her, but if it was as tough as he's making it they wouldn't allow you to write home. Obviously he's army, and now a cop, go figure. Care to throw your weight around much? You're forgetting its suppose to be a brotherhood, and she is suppose to be learning leadership traits. which that DI broke almost all 14. He said your daughter should have known what she was getting into, well the same for the DI . Like you said it's theft and destruction of property. Tell your daughter to stick with it, we need good people in there. Its not her respect for property and morales thats the problem with the service these days its the worthless and disrespectfull that some how get ahead that made it how it is today.

reply to post by Valhall


the woman who ripped up the photo was sticking to the rules a little tighter than she might have but she hardly owes your daughter an apology, to be fair. it wasn't personal property she destroyed, it was contraban.

the thing you need to be asking yourself is not "how could they do this?", it's why you feel it is any of your look out. your daughter is off to kill or be killed in a war, you need to cut the apron strings and reassess your priorities.

your daughter is going into an environment where something this obvious "not clicking" will get her, and others, killed. this is your daughters fault, she made the mistake and all that was lost was a photo, which you have scans of. the next time she makes this kind of mistake she might lose her life.

reply to post by Valhall


Valhall

As much as I have respected you opinions over the years while reading your posts, in this case I truly believe you are all wet.

Many, many years ago, I too entered basic training. Long before I ever step foot on the plane that took me to basic, my recruiters gave me a long list of things to bring to basic, and things that were forbidden. Your daughter apparently did not read the list closely enough, or take the time to review her possession before she left.

In the military, we have this thing called attention to detail. It rules our life, especially in our formative years when we are learning basic responsibilities and habits, that later on can save your life, or the life or your fellow servicemen. If you don't pay attention during firearms training, you may accidentally shoot and kill someone. If you don't follow procedure while repairing a radar, you may electrocute or irradiate some else nearby. In the military, very small details can kill people or doom an operation to failure.

On of the basic premises of "basic training" is to break people of their bad, lazy habits, and their "me first" mentality. BT is designed to promote a cohesive, team-first attitude, which is absolutely essential in any military unit. Almost everyone I know who came out of basic was "changed" - although not permanently for goodness sake.

The level of hostility and offense that you are articulating indicate to me that you are either not comfortable with your daughters decision to join the military, or not fully informed / prepared to deal with the consequences, or perhaps both. The military is harsh sometimes, especially to new "boots" who don't know the system and demonstrate bad habits. In time your daughter (hopefully) will figure it out and learn the system.....it's really not that hard. Do what you are told. Pay attention to details. Act honorably. Be diligent. Work hard. If you follow these concepts, even the most mediocre person can excel in the armed forces.

If your daughter is that offended over a lost photograph, I shudder to think about the long road the military has in store for her. This country is turning into a nanny state, and attitudes like this aren't helping.......just my 2 cents worth.

I'm sure she will be fine, it's probably just the initial shock of BT that has her all wound up. Once she graduates and has a few stories to tell, it will be nothing more than a minor annoyance....

reply to post by Valhall


These comments and e-mails i'm sure will get to the DI's or word off. So be as upset as you may but, i do fear you may be unintentionally making things very difficult for your daughter.

Things are what they are in the military, albeit tough sometimes. The pic thing sucks but i would recommend focusing more of your anger towards pride in your daughter. Tell her me and my family said thanks in your next letter instead of mentioning the picture, it's gone.

And to the poster pretending to support this women while bashing the military i must ask, are you 12 or ignorant?

Guys (and gals),

Seriously...don't waste your time giving me schooling on how the military works, how this is my daughter's fault, how I'm making things worse, etc.

There was one purpose to this thread...to put the event out in a public forum.

Just another data point on how crap like Abu Ghraib happens - a bunch of sick, twisted, control-freak vermin like this woman are getting in the service...and the service turns a blind eye to the sick unacceptable behavior because it's desparate for more cannon fodder for its latest false initiative.

Originally posted by Valhall
There was one purpose to this thread...to put the event out in a public forum.

Seems to me that the purpose of this thread was for you to bash and blame the military for something that your daughter did.

Just another data point on how crap like Abu Ghraib happens - a bunch of sick, twisted, control-freak vermin like this woman are getting in the service...and the service turns a blind eye to the sick unacceptable behavior because it's desparate for more cannon fodder for its latest false initiative.

See what I mean.

The simple fact is that your daughter was in the wrong and you cannot accept that. I am certain that she, just like everyone else who joins, was given a packet of information on what they can and (more importantly) cannot bring with them. She either:
A Failed to read it
B Did not understand it and did not seek clarification
C Purposely failed to follow directions

Your daughter had to learn an unfortunate and painful lesson, but hopefully she does learn from this.

Originally posted by Valhall
Guys (and gals),

Seriously...don't waste your time giving me schooling on how the military works, how this is my daughter's fault, how I'm making things worse, etc.

There was one purpose to this thread...to put the event out in a public forum.

Just another data point on how crap like Abu Ghraib happens - a bunch of sick, twisted, control-freak vermin like this woman are getting in the service...and the service turns a blind eye to the sick unacceptable behavior because it's desparate for more cannon fodder for its latest false initiative.

So, you just wanted to come on ATS, and just paint the entire US military with that well-known "ATS Hate the Military" brush?

Should this have happened? Nope. Who knows who's fault it is. Your daughter's for not paying attetion to briefs and failing to follow simple instructions? Or the recruiter for not briefing her on what was expected.

Either way, you might want to just step back and think about what your writing. Being pissed at the DI is one thing; not everyone in the service is a "sick, twisted control-freak vermin".

Wow instead of the military you would think she was being booked or something,that lady did that purposely to be a hardass,I guess intimidation is a part of basic training,why I wouldn't want any of my kids to join,you would think being some are leaving home for the 1st time,that they would be a little more empathetic,I'll be e mailing that person as well,I have 4 kids,you draw the line when it comes to any of them

Valhall,

It was contraban, the AKA Vermin ripped up, Personal Property would be kept in an area where its suppost to be put.

I do think the woman was heartless for what she did and probably did it to prove a point to the other recruits, Woman DI's tend to be that way because of the sex issue being surrounded by a Military controlled by men.

But come on, One of the fundamental rules of BT is not to bring anything personal that could be confiscated and destroyed.

Military is as always Military,

just my two cents.

Val, first let me say that unfortunetly yes, this seems to be a growing thing in the army and armed forces in general. As many people are just ignorant apes who have no respect for any one unless they have more stripes than them. This is not true of course, but it sure damn seems to be more often than not.

I am truely ashamed that the photo was destroyed with a complete disregard of respect. I advise you and your daughter to file a report with IG and push the case for further evaluation. This should never have happened.

blowfishdl

Just to set things straight, not every one in the military is a "trained killer", this is a huge fabricated misperception. Out of the 200 MOS's in the Army, only a handful are actually trained for combat roles. Almost every MOS is a support type job which provides a logistical (bullets, and beans) element for those combat units doing the actually fighting. There are clerks who are paper pushers, for legal and financial roles, communication specialties, and mechanics to name a few.

Even though every soldier goes through a "basic" phase of training, they will probably never fire a weapon outside of the qualification range. Of all the specialties in the military, less than a dozen will actually go outside the wire and see a combat situation.

I felt this off topic post was needed to clarify that not every soldier is a professional killer, and that it does no justice to the Armed Forces for people to assume such. As a combat arms soldier, I can speak for this small community. We only engage as a last resort by the rules given in the escalation of force procedures.

If any one has further questions, please feel free to u2u me.

I'm curious - what if the picture had been on the cell phone. Would the cell phone have been destroyed?

If not, then I don't see why they couldn't just hold the photo the same way they held the cell phone.

I'm sorry that you and your daughter had to go through something like this. But please don't blame the military for the actions of one stupid, heartless person. There as many A-holes in the civilian population as there are in the military. You need to contact the Public Affairs Office by phone. You should also try contacting the Commanding Officer of that facility. Letters and emails can be ignored. A mad parent on the phone is a little harder to ignore.

When I went to boot camp I wasn't allowed to keep anything but they gave everyone the option to mail personal belongings home. Your daughter just had the unfortunate luck to meet an uber bitch during her indoctrination.

I hope your daughter has better luck in the future.

Also, you are not a mindless robot in the military. Others on here seem to insinuate that. You are required to follow orders but I would never compomise something I felt was absolutely wrong. I would take it to the next level in the chain of command.

Originally posted by Valhall
Guys (and gals),

Seriously...don't waste your time giving me schooling on how the military works, how this is my daughter's fault, how I'm making things worse, etc.

There was one purpose to this thread...to put the event out in a public forum.

Just another data point on how crap like Abu Ghraib happens - a bunch of sick, twisted, control-freak vermin like this woman are getting in the service...and the service turns a blind eye to the sick unacceptable behavior because it's desparate for more cannon fodder for its latest false initiative.

I've had a lot of respect for you after reading many of your posts in other forums but this one ruined that for me. If your personal feelings are so negative towards the military then it must make you physically sick that your daughter has joined. Cannon fodder would imply front line duty. As others have said, not many are in that role. And like I said in a previous post there are A-holes outside of the military also.

One thing I learned from my time in the military was personal responsibility. If I want something done I do it myself. I also had a reason for my work everyday. I miss that more than anything else. Even more than traveling the world and seeing things I would have never seen before.

Also, the military doesn't turn a blind eye to people that abuse others. In fact they are on a constant search to rid themselves of sadistic, evil, SOBs. I personally saw many people kicked out of the service for minor hazing incidents. There is training all of the time telling you what is acceptable behavior. In fact IMO they are overzealous. But it's hard to prevent someone from having a bad day and being a bitch like the DI was to your daughter. That person should be reprimanded but shouldn't be removed from the service.

Originally posted by Valhall
I have attached a scanned copy of
the photograph and my daughter's written account of what occurred.

First question I have to ask after reading your post is "Where did you get a scanned copy" of this picture from if it was destroyed?"

If you have scanned copies, why would your daughter bring the original with her? If it is so special, wouldn't you protect it better than carrying it around in your pocket?

Almost 20 years ago I enlisted in the USMC and prior to shipping out I was clearly informed that I would not be allowed to take any personal belongings with me. Further, upon arrival at MCRD, we were each given a box once we received our GI and instructed to put all items not GI into the box. The boxes were then stored until graduation.

I don't believe we are being told the entire story here.