Teenager commits suicide live online while 1,500 people watch

Originally posted by detachedindividual
As I said in my last post on this, there is no artistic merit in media depicting torture and murder, so the enjoyment has to be voyeuristic and sadistic in nature.

No. I don't enjoy the 'splatter-porn' genre (ie Saw, Hostel), but to say that it has no artistic merit is to deny the very subjectivity that makes art art. I think The Scream is a pretty horrible painting. I wouldnt pay ten dollars for it. Clearly, somebody sees more merit in it than I do. Just because I can't see the artistic merit in a piece, I can't say something like, "It has no artistic merit."

Just that I don't see it.

It's like picking up a stranger's wedding photo album and saying, "That photo album has no value." You don't see it, but there may be (and probably are) people that find value in it.

Also, on the original topic, this is something I personally would never watch. But then, if I lived in Roman times I probably wouldn't have gone to the arena, either. I don't watch racing, and many of the people I know that do watch it just watch it for the crashes. They cannot be held responsible if someone tries to corner at ludicrous speeds and crashes and kills themselves. The peasants that watched the gladiators stab each other to death cannot be held responsible for that. Entertainment has a loooong history of violence, and this is probably the next step. Attempts to regulate live video feed over the internet will probably just lead to us losing the last real venue of free speech left in the US.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by '___'eviant]

reply to post by '___'eviant


Thank you for this. I wish more people would actually approach things like this.

"Just because I see no artistic value in something, doesn't mean it doesn't hold value to others".

So many times people simply believe that the objective truth mirrors their subjective interpretation.

Thanks again.

Threatening to kill yourself is a cry for attention. As it happens people who want to kill themselves just do it. In this case he went a bit too far in his cry for help and ended up not being able to change his mind half way. That much is obvious. But there needs to be some population control from somewhere.

Since some had brought up moderation and the website, let me tell you I'm very disappointed by the moderators there. Threads like this one should never be left on the board. For a moderator to call him an 'attention whore' leaves me speechless.

The site is not run by a small group of friends. It is owned by Liberty Media. I'm sure they could ask to have her demodded, if they wished.

[edit on 24-11-2008 by Duzey]

You know, thiis a sad story for only one, while not the other. Seems that one of the chaps just might be a real hard assed bloke. Look out and we"ll show them how to get it done.

Originally posted by Duzey
The site is not run by a small group of friends. It is owned by Liberty Media. I'm sure they could ask to have her demodded, if they wished.

Wow...you are right. And it looks like Liberty Media has very deep pockets! Definitely big enough to attract a lawyer, though hopefully if anything legal is pursued it will be settled out of court with hush money.

I said they looked small because of their board script, i never looked at the site. That is the same basic board script used by lots of small non-profit sites. Kind of tacky for a large website that has revenue and a big backer to use a basic script like that without even adding a fancy skin.

Once again lets remember the beauty of the internet is that...
-- most of it is free! free websites, free forums, free information
-- so much is relatively anonymous! how many would post here if they had to provide real info to register (that would happen if websites were liable for the posts of their public users)
-- for little or no money anyone with basic computer skills can share their visions, ideas, and knowledge on the web for the whole world to see

Those are major factors. If lawsuits ever become prevalent online that will stop, the regular little people will have to be afraid of what could happen. The net will be run by big business that can cover their own asses and fend off lawsuits. But hey maybe it would be a safer internet if big corporations ran it! And it is all about safety! We don't need free speech all that much anyway.

reply to post by Sonya610



i told you it was a big site! as for not being held responsible, that moderator should get in trouble and believe me she will one way or the other, karma is a dog in heat!!

don't forget about the myspace case that is going down as we speak.
some mother created a fake mysace page to humiliate a neighborhood girl that started rumors about the mothers 13 yr old daughter. well the people involved told the girl through the made up myspace profile that the world will be better off without her. well the girl immediately killed herself, and the mother that created the fake profile is now on trial. keep an eye on what happens in this case it will pave the way for idiocy like this on the internet.

we can't let idiots provoke mentally unstable people on the internet or anywhere else. imagine if someone goes online and threatens to shoot up a school and some other idiot goes yea do it kill them! both of those idiots should be held responsible for their stupidity. i agree it would be hard to prosecute every last person that makes threats online, almost impossible. what i'm saying is that action should be taken in clear cut cases as these, then maybe people will think before they say or do something stupid online!

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
don't forget about the myspace case that is going down as we speak.
some mother created a fake mysace page to humiliate a neighborhood girl that started rumors about the mothers 13 yr old daughter. well the people involved told the girl through the made up myspace profile that the world will be better off without her. well the girl immediately killed herself, and the mother that created the fake profile is now on trial. keep an eye on what happens in this case it will pave the way for idiocy like this on the internet.

Yeah I remember that case. Though I do not think the family ever tried to go after MySpace (did they?). That case is a bit different in my opinion. For an adult to intentionally manipulate and deceive a child for the purpose of causing psychological harm, especially a neighborhood child that was a friend of your own child, well that is sick and very intentional. That was intimate and very personal, they knew the kid and did it for revenge.

That is a whole lot different than an unstable adult making multiple, crazy threats on the internet and getting snide replies from anonymous strangers.


[edit on 25-11-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by aleon1018
I had heard of a website where people such as tourists are often abducted and murdered live in some desert.

thanks, I will be writing the screen play this weekend.

I'll make a fortune, I'll have that Dwane "The Rock" Johnson guy play the lead and maybe that other wrestler Steve Austin play the evil guy who does the killin' everyone will be abducted and flow to a secret desert location that is hooked up with a million dollar web cam setup and a steel cage and Stone Cold and The Rock will have a showdown at the end where the "Rock" will win and shut the place down....

BITCHIN!!!

Or maybe I'll just pop in one of the 50 odd flicks you just described similar plots of and watch it.



- honestly.. you really think that happens or perhaps your mind works a bit overtime eh? A few too many #e "b" action flicks?

reply to post by Sonya610


once again i am not talking about going after the web-sites. i am talking about going after the people that make the irresponsible comments and especially the moderator who let the threads go on for days, and actively participated in those said threads. people have to start taking responsibility for their actions!! i'm not talking about law-suits, i'm talking about jail time/fines/punishment of some kind.

I agree
Runetang says"[In their usually victimized minds, where the world is entirely against them and they have no friends, they are driven by their anger, resentment, and frustration at reality for them as it exists. "
When i was young I tried to kill myself, and this is what people thought I was feeling. The truth was I hid my sorrow and feelings of aloneness and loss behind what looked like hate and anger, all I needed was one single human being to see through that and make me feel like MAYBE someone could actually care about me, love me. I had never had love from anyone and a single hand reaching out in kindness changed my world and my entire life. Some people's bad childhoods and experience of the world are so extremely bad that they never have any reality other than, that they ARE truely victoms, and I personally never had one single teacher of adult or anyone my own age reach out to me in 15 years, I now make a real effort to smile at the angry looking, a kind word to the sad looking or shy acting, many of the worlds greatest were like these in their youth I am a writer and artist, a little love and kindness can go to the heart.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
once again i am not talking about going after the web-sites. i am talking about going after the people that make the irresponsible comments and especially the moderator who let the threads go on for days, and actively participated in those said threads. people have to start taking responsibility for their actions!! i'm not talking about law-suits, i'm talking about jail time/fines/punishment of some kind.

Going after individuals is going to be difficult. And even if we manage to give the odd moderator here and there a 'telling off', the big picture will remain the same.

The rules and regulations surrounding forum/chat room activity need an overhaul. Ultimately, the site owners are responsible.

Originally posted by thebox

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
once again i am not talking about going after the web-sites. i am talking about going after the people that make the irresponsible comments and especially the moderator who let the threads go on for days, and actively participated in those said threads. people have to start taking responsibility for their actions!! i'm not talking about law-suits, i'm talking about jail time/fines/punishment of some kind.

Going after individuals is going to be difficult. And even if we manage to give the odd moderator here and there a 'telling off', the big picture will remain the same.

The rules and regulations surrounding forum/chat room activity need an overhaul. Ultimately, the site owners are responsible.

who we all think might be responsible with our second-hand knowledge is irrelevant. this case made international news so presumably there will be an investigation; lets hope something positive will come of it.

Originally posted by ll__raine__ll
who we all think might be responsible with our second-hand knowledge is irrelevant. this case made international news so presumably there will be an investigation; lets hope something positive will come of it.

I'm not saying the site owners are responsible for the suicide, I'm saying they are responsible for the provision of moderation.

Okay, I've finally made it through 12 long pages to here.

1. To Hunkahunka - people are no doubt responding incredibly aggressively to you, because as I read it, your compassion is around about non-existent. People suicide for alot of different reasons, and I believe you have over-generalised the catagory of Suicidal.
You yourself have admitted to having to deal with a form of depression. I believe it was Seasonal Affective Disorder, which as it is implied, is not a constant permanent depression. It is a mood disorder. If you have suffered during your lifetime, with a severe depression, it is not reflected in your attitudes towards those who may be struggling with their own mental health. You may very well have no time for those who "wallow" in their own self-pity, and who do not appear to be doing anything constructive for themselves in regards to their mental health. You may have overwhelming true pity or sympathy for these left behind by the seemingly 'selfish' act of suicide. You have every right to your own opinions and thoughts.

However, that said. Nothing you have expressed in this thread has led me to believe that you have ever walked the steps of a true state of depression - for only in understanding, and feeling the true suffering of pain, do we form the seeds of compassion for others treading similar painful paths. We do not have to encourage or support a self-pitying individual or 'waste our time on them'. But where is our compassion and understanding of another human being's pain, or emotional crisis???

2. As far as the boy who would die with the audience. Of course he has my pity, and my compassion. My heart goes out to any family and friends he has left behind.

I do not believe anyone other than the boy himself was to "blame". You all are sitting next to a keyboard. You ALL have the ability to exit out of this screen at the push of a button. So too did this boy. If he did not want to listen or hear any of the cruel comments or actions of his online audience, then he had full command of his arms and fingers to exit the stage. Yes, it is loathsome that people would egg on another person to kill themselves. That said, has anyone considered the possiblity that he was seeking preciesly this type of negative reinforcement he apparently received on this website? If he wanted a crowd cheering him on towards death, as it appears he did, then he got his wish.

Regardless of this, the boy was alone in a room. There was no one holding a gun to his head. It was entirely his own decision and choice. The only 'accountable' person in this scenario is the boy himself. He picked up the pills, he put them in his own mouth - of his own free will, and he swallowed them. No one can argue this, as apparently there were over a thousand witnesses to the event.

I see no reason why anyone would be pressing charges or taking people to court over this. I do agree that notifying the police would have been a good idea. That the decent thing to do, would have been to seek help for him as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, if a person wishes to kill themselves, they will eventually do so. You can attempt to get them 'help', but as the saying goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

Originally posted by gormly

Originally posted by aleon1018
I had heard of a website where people such as tourists are often abducted and murdered live in some desert.

thanks, I will be writing the screen play this weekend.
honestly.. you really think that happens or perhaps your mind works a bit overtime eh? A few too many #e "b" action flicks?

LOL…yes that is a silly, movie type, scenario. However for many years I have been associated with a subculture of sites and chat channels devoted to fantasy death scenarios. We always thought if anything “really happened” the media would fixate on it and put a lot of pressure on the internet communities devoted to that topic.

In fact at least two separate murders were directly linked to those sites (the victims met their killers online and then voluntarily hooked up with them in real life knowing full well what would happen). Honestly there were probably a few more that never made the news (because the participants were smart about it).

Both cases can be googled, the Armin Meiwes (the german cannibal) and Sharon Lopatka (a separate case) and both cases revolved around the same relatively small network of sites.

Fortunately the media never went crazy on those stories, and it never impacted the network of sites, so our worst fears went unfounded. No one ever decided to shut down their sites or channels because of this, there are always going to be a handful of crazy people in the world, and stuff will always happen. It can’t be prevented.

But that certainly makes some of us jaded, and enforces my personal belief that people are responsible for their OWN actions. It maybe easy to blame internet sites but that is just a cop-out.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by Sonya610]

bottom line - that moderator should have reported that kid the first time he started making threats, at the very least she should have closed the thread, instead she actively participated in the thread and egged him on.
if all the other idiots said stuff whatever, she was A MODERATOR.

god forbid some idiot makes a thread like that on ATS the thread would have been deleted within a day, heck if someone makes a weed thread it gets deleted!!! i have had threads deleted within minutes for far less!!!

we need to put an end to people making internet threats, start prosecuting irresponsible people and maybe they will think twice next time they open their mouth!!!

say what you say i have a feeling that moderator is going to pay for her actions!

I've had a really tough time as well that continued over several years, in which I often contemplated suicide. Lost a lot in a short period of time, with no apparent way to ever recover and I just short-circuited.

I'm just glad I never posted about these feelings on a forum while I was suffering from them, I knew I either had to endure it or end it, but at least the voice egging me on was just my own, inside my own skull. Not some faceless boogymen who understand enough about human nature to know how to hurt someone, without the temperance of compassion.

When contemplating this with any modicum of seriousness, one hàs to know a bit about the nature of mankind. Lowering your 'mental armor' in a faceless community without expecting several of the 'avatars' to get a kick out of people suffering seems to me ill-considered.

If you want to let your guard down and talk heart to heart, do it with people you at least know a little.. no guarantee they will be understanding and patient, but at least the odds will be better..

Maybe posting it on a site with a lot of cruel people was a way of masochism, of having to reaffirm one's belief in the incapability of man to truly have compassion, seeking the pain to make it easier to depart?

Funny thing, when I was contemplating these dark thoughts, it was like I was a magnet for emotionally disfunctional people, at least 1 in 3 persons I chatted with had the same thoughts, or at least claimed to have them.

Now that the pain has eroded a bit, I don't seem to meet many people online anymore who are suffering the same.

There is a saying that goes something like 'kind seeks kind', could it be this also applys to this electronic community which, for many people, is just about home ?

Originally posted by Phatcat
If you want to let your guard down and talk heart to heart, do it with people you at least know a little.. no guarantee they will be understanding and patient, but at least the odds will be better..

Excuse me but is there any evidence this person read or responded to the offensive postings?

From what I understand, he made the announcement then swallowed a bunch of pills and went to lay down while providing a live show for the audience.

I did NOT think he came onto those forums to discuss his thoughts and feelings, or ask for counseling.

If there are logs that showed he engaged other posters, replied to or even READ any of the replies please provide a link to those logs.

Where can i view this video?