The great flood.

Just a few observations and questions.

OK, so first off, how did Noah pick up and return the animals in Australia and the arctic?

Secondly, I presume the rains were freshwater, so, did the de-salination of the oceans affect marine life?

Thirdly, how big was his ship? I'm guessing it was pretty huge to house 2 of everything. Did he build it on his own? How long did it take? Did it have sails? Could it fight currents?

Fourth, what did he feed the carnivors, and how did he get them to not eat each other.

Fifth, did he have a special section for microbes, algae and bacteria, and if so, how did he find them?

thanks.

John's quick capsule review, "It's all bull****."

Expanded reply, the deeper into the flood myth you take it, it sees its source as a farmer who survived a flood of the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers on a barge with his live stock.

As for the specific questions

1. Magic
2. What are you talking about, water is water.
3. Even the largest wooden ship possible would have a rough time as sea, nvm filled with animals.
4. God reverted them all back to pre-eden conditions when even T-Rex apparently lived fruit salad.
5. If he did he was acouple thousand years of his time. But that's God for you, keeping knowledge held back.

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
2. What are you talking about, water is water.

No, marine animals have adaptability for certain salination levels.
I just figured all that freshwater falling would really mess up the salt-lovers among them.
I mean, shallow-water creatures can't go deep because of temperature and pressure, but at the same time, they can't survive in freshwater.
I figured they were probably all killed, but then we have such a rich and diverse shallow-water eco-system, it doesn't seem right they could have re-materialised globally.

Actually Noah did not have 2 of every animal on the ark. Read Genesis a little more closely and you will see what I am saying. I also find the ark story a little far fetched to say the least, but most civilizations if not all have a story of a great deluge that covered the earth. The Hebrew,Sumerian,Hittite, etc. all have stories of a great deluge. And if there was a great flood maybe there was a great ship as well that was a safe haven for some of mankind and the animals as well. Here is one website with some opinions on Noah and the flood www.answersingenesis.org... I would also recommend Zecharia Sitchin as his books raise a lot of questions and make a good amount of sense to me on the creation of man and of our history.

of course you realize the flood probably didnt happen around all of the world, but the known world to noah, which would be africa, mid east and those regions. although there are like 100 somethin flood stories floatin around out there.... of course if it flooded everything, majority of the plants and trees would've died as well.

reply to post by cruzion


FSblue was being scarcastic. He understands slainity, he was just echoing tired old rhetoric.


reply to post by wkdclwn96


It says 2 at times and 7 at others.

The thing I would question is this. How the hell would all the trees and other plants survive the flood?

[edit on 19/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

I know I'm going to regret this as this forum is extremely hostile to creationists- even when our opinions are asked. This will be my one and only reply to this thread and it will strictly be brief answers to the questions posed in the OP.

Originally posted by cruzion
OK, so first off, how did Noah pick up and return the animals in Australia and the arctic?

Some believe the division of the continents took place after the flood. This is due to the fact the land being divided is mentioned as occurring after the flood. If this interpretation is correct, then the animals could have traveled and adapted prior to the separation. However, others believe this division relates to the separation of the languages and dispersal of people that would eventually lead to the different races.

Secondly, I presume the rains were freshwater, so, did the de-salination of the oceans affect marine life?

We believe many fish species actually died in the flood. Also, there is evidence that large pockets of fresh water can 'survive' mixed in with salt water. There are even current locations in the world where large pockets of fresh water are mixed in with salt water.

Thirdly, how big was his ship? I'm guessing it was pretty huge to house 2 of everything. Did he build it on his own? How long did it take? Did it have sails? Could it fight currents?

The ship was massive, he built it on his own with his family, it took a very long time but I can't remember exactly. Possibly over 100 years. No sails are described, not sure about the currents. Also, studies have been done to show that the dimensions of the ark, as given in the book of Genesis, would make it one of the most sea worthy vessels ever created. Compare this to the flood myth of ancient Sumeria which described the ship being shaped like a cube (impossible).

Fourth, what did he feed the carnivors, and how did he get them to not eat each other.

Some believe animals did not become carnivorous until after the flood. Humans were later allowed to eat meat after the flood. There is internal biblical evidence that implies nature accelerated in it's rate of degeneration after the flood due to the original fall, therefore requiring the consumption of meat in order to get the necessary nutrients.

Fifth, did he have a special section for microbes, algae and bacteria, and if so, how did he find them?

Nothing in the Bible mentions the above but I would assume many of them would be on the animals harbored inside the ark, survive in water, etc. Completely speculative since the Bible is silent.

Do with the above what you will. Debate it, pick it apart, or ridicule it but there you go.

[edit on 11/19/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by cruzion
Just a few observations and questions.

OK, so first off, how did Noah pick up and return the animals in Australia and the arctic?

Secondly, I presume the rains were freshwater, so, did the de-salination of the oceans affect marine life?

Thirdly, how big was his ship? I'm guessing it was pretty huge to house 2 of everything. Did he build it on his own? How long did it take? Did it have sails? Could it fight currents?

Fourth, what did he feed the carnivors, and how did he get them to not eat each other.

Fifth, did he have a special section for microbes, algae and bacteria, and if so, how did he find them?

thanks.

more to the pint why the hell did he let 2 cockroaches on to that ark?

Or fleas, ticks, flies, mosquitos, viruses, rats, mice, a whole lot of bad bugs and worms, snakes, parasites, harmful bacteria. Noah had a chance to leave all these pests behind so we can blame him for all these things. That is if it were real and not a fairy tale.

The ship was massive, he built it on his own with his family, it took a very long time but I can't remember exactly. Possibly over 100 years. No sails are described, not sure about the currents. Also, studies have been done to show that the dimensions of the ark, as given in the book of Genesis, would make it one of the most sea worthy vessels ever created. Compare this to the flood myth of ancient Sumeria which described the ship being shaped like a cube (impossible).

hey Ashley

just for the record an Ark is also a cube or rectangle,

and its not the most sea worthy, its the largest ever built and that includes steel and iron built ships

a ship of those dimensions made from wood would leak like a sieve

reply to post by AshleyD


We, on the whole, are not hostile towards creationists, but to the illogical and irrational. Anyone can believe anything they want, but as soon as they try to argue against verifiable science, that's when the poop hits the fan.

Keep it rational, and you won't find any hostility here.

And seeing as you asked for it, the rest of your post wasn't exactly a great explanation of how the biblical account could have happened. Yes, saltwater and freshwater can coexist in the same body of water without mixing, but when you are talking about a sea-level rise of such magnitude, mixing will definitely occur. Either the rained water was saline, in which case it would have killed all the plants on the land, and rendered most of the arable land unsuitable for crops for hundreds of years after the floor receeded, or it was fresh water, in which case the fish in the sea - all of the species which live near the surface (except a few species, such as the Bull shark, which can live in fresh and saltwater) - would have died. It would be like filling a bath-tub half-full of red water, then topping up the water to the top with blue water from a shower. You'd definitely get purple water, not a nice and neat line of blue water on top of red water. That means Noah would also have to have a selection of fish in his ship, meaning it would be very likely to capsize. Not to mention the logistical problem of him catching, alive, the fish required, then sorting out the salt levels of the sea after the flood receeded.

Also the geological record clearly shows Pangaea split about 250 million years ago, when there were no humans.

As for building a wooden ship over 100 years, that is not going to work. The difference between the first wood laid down and the fresh wood being added decades later would mean irreparable breaks and flexing of brittle wood. The ship would fall apart before it could be floated.

And not to mention - where did the water come from, and where did it go?

It's not the most sensible account in the bible of anything, which is saying a lot.

Originally posted by dave420
And not to mention - where did the water come from, and where did it go?

Where did it come from? Good question. Where did it go? That's obvious isn't it?



You're assuming that the Earth is the exact same size it always was. There are several threads here on ATS that seriously debate this question. Think about it. Does it make sense that a molten Earth would cool with all the land mass on one side?

"Earth is Expanding" New Model For the Universe
Earth is Expanding

[edit on 19-11-2008 by dbates]

After the Hadean, the land masses were distributed, right? Was that not Rodinia? The cooling down came after the proto-planet bombardment ceased, at the end of the Hadean. Also, water began forming mid-Archean, if I remember correctly, and was formed by outgassing from volcanic vents. The surface of Earth had cooled before we even had seas.

That was another point, where the heck did all the water go to? There must have been some super-rapid glaciation going on up north for the water to dissapear like that. But wouldn't there be a record in the ice cores we have? The cores go back 240,000 years. No record of it there.

reply to post by cruzion

That's what I was hinting at. If the surface area of the Earth grew then the water depth would decrease. There would be no need for the water to all freeze. AshleyD hinted at this earlier and it's mentioned in the flood account that the Earth was divided.

While other planets have traces of water, the Earth is mostly covered with water. While it's unclear how it all got here, it does appear that the water is still here.

does it make sense no

do maps support that yes

are those maps accurate to area preservation? no

the accepted maps distorts land mass so that points of lat long appear as striaght lines on a map so when the earth gets rolled out it looks funny

take a look at the equal area maps near the bottom suddenly its not so heavly weighted on the one side en.wikipedia.org...

depending on just how you warp the earths land mass to fit your map design reasons you could be asking why all the lands near the top

[edit on 19/11/08 by noobfun]

If you've read the book of enoch, (enoch is a relative of noah) then you may see why the flood occurred. Also, I've watched Miriam Delicado on Project Camelots, and she speaks of several "eras" being brought to an end. I believe that ets were responsible, and that there were 2 opposing sides to the issue, the second group alligned with Alantis and Lemuria. The ark, probably contained some animals, but it possibly was symbolic for stored dna.

reply to post by dbates


It might not make sense knowing what you do, but it makes sense to every geologist out there worth their salt.

May I suggest you read the Geological history of Earth? It will explain a lot of things.

reply to post by mystiq


There's no evidence for any of that. It's as close to guesswork as to make it practically no different.

If God did indeed have the power to cause the great flood in he first place, it would demonstrate that He had control of the forces of nature.

It would be no great leap then, for Him to use his power and ability to make sure that the Ark survived the deluge. The same force that was used to create the universe, would be applied in all matters related to this event.
It may seem too simplistic for some, especially those that deny the existance of God, but the Bible clearly states that Faith is not a possession of all men.

Modern science does not know how the ancients constructed many of the massive structures that exist or existed, so until the Ark is found and scientists have the opportunity to examine it constructon, people should not dogmatically conclude that it would not be sea worthy.

IF God could cause this catastrophe, He could sure ensure the safety of the passengers, human & non human, on the ark.

We should not limit the Power of a Divine Being to what we as mortal man can accomplish or understand.

reply to post by Sparky63


True, modern science doesn't know exactly how all the ancient structures were built, but they do know that the laws of physics means they are possible. The ark is completely different - it requires leap of faith after leap of faith after leap of faith. It doesn't make any sense, not considering the story and the evidence we have right now.

OK, if we assume the great flood did happen, then where is the evidence for it? All the geological and biological evidence suggests it never happened.