I want socialism.

reply to post by Heedbanger


Gordon Brown got put into power for doing his dirty deed for the NWO back in 1999 - by selling ALL of Britain's Gold at 1/4 price it would have sold for the next year.

Becoming PM was his reward for this dastardly act of Treason.

He Ruined England's economy - rendering it fully Debt-based and with no surplus.

Typical Marxist tactics.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by bdswetty
reply to post by jam321

 

Socialism isn't bad. It's not any worse than democracy.

(ahh the American non-education system)
Democracy is about the people electing their government. Socialism is a way for a government to cushion the people from the more harsh aspects of capitalism. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Many democratically elected governments provide their people with socialist networks of help and services through taxation of a capitalist economy. In 1970 President Allende was democratically elected in Chile. He was assassinated with USA/CIA help because he wanted to nationalize mines, which were abusing workers and hauling wealth out of the country. Now we have Chavez democratically elected in Venezuela. Many free countries democratically elect governments that promote a socialist agenda.

Now you have Obama in the USA. Many seemed worried he will promote a socialist agenda. Well good for you. That is what happens when, in a democracy, most people are having a hard time with living! No wonder few support the Bail-out to Wall St., which is socialism for the wealthy. When less than the majority of family units have an adequate 401K, comprehensive health care, or can afford a quality higher education for their kids let democracy rule. And this is not because people are lazy! Individuals and families are working more for less, much less than during the post WWII free ride our parents or grandparents had. Of course the majority is going to swing into some support for socialism. Capitalism is failing and many need a leg up.

Originally posted by Isispriest

(ahh the American non-education system)
Democracy is about the people electing their government.

Or not electing their government. Within the scope of all political ideologies, democracy means the power is in the hands of the people. The power to decide, like you said, to elect their government. It could also mean the people deciding not to elect their government.

My friend, if you were only in Yugoslavia...

It is not important what came after, for it was all enforced by external factors both east and west..

But the most important thing is that the big majority of people who experienced and went through both Capitalism and Yugoslavian socialism would choose socialism...

The minority which wanted Yuga to break apart were tied to nationalistic illusions caused by bloody history but they still consider the former type of living far better...

those were the times.. I will have to start a separate thread on this subject/phenomena, I dont think it is there yet..

We werent rich buth we werent poor
The things that made us happy were balance, free time, sports, singing and most of all, socialisins




www.youtube.com...

The only people that are scared of socialism, are the rich (and too bad for you money hungry bastards, your sooo greedy you are now such a minority that your vote/voice isn't gonna mean a thing when it hits the fan), and the ignorant people who confuse socialism with communism.

Personally I grew up with a father who worked his butt off as a plumber and through his sweat and blood made many a company rich, then he got his own company and did very well for himself, but kept only one truck. Me or a family friend as a helper, and he lived well. He was not greedy, did not hit people over the head when he could have and become rich. But he raised 4 kids with no government help.

Growing up I wanted to emulate him, I was a plumbing mechanic, until I lost a leg(when i was " bumped" onto the LIRR tracks), while not on the job, and at the time I was working for a guy who was the "out to get rich type",had no medical as I was off the books. I had worked several plumbing jobs , honeing my skills as a mechanic, most on the books, some off the books when times were tough. During this time, times were tough I had a 5 year old daughter.

Now I live in FL, Do you know what the governament pays me a month? a little over $600/per month, yep thats $150 a week. I have 1 leg. They are not gonna pay for my schooling. They do not give me low income housing since I'm not 55+, I'm only in my 30's. My daughter is now 11, if not for her amazing grandmother, on her mothers side, she'd be living under the states system, well no she'd come live with me and my parents, and we'd make it work somehow.

I live with my parents, since I could not afford my single bedroom apartment when I got out of the hospital.

My old man has basically lost his mind due to a breakdown some years ago, although thankfully he had a good on the books union job when he was declared mentaly disabled. so he brings home a "whopping" $1100 a month. Whoopy!

My mother being a stay at home Mom her whole life has no job skills, shes in here 60's and cannot learn new job skills, her hands barely work. So she works at the local food mart and makes like $375 a week, and gives the government almost 1/3 of that. Thank you America!

So as a family of 3, we are trying to pay our mortgage/home owners insurance, feed ourselves,cloth ourselves, cover medical bills, and keep 1 car on the road all with about $2500-2700 a month. Wanna go out to a restaurant? or to the Cinema? haha. Buy gifts for eachother on B-days/ Holidays? hahaha. These things now are luxuries for us.

Don't get me wrong I'm grateful for what I do have, I'm alive, I have my daughter, although I can only visit her about twice a year for a couple weeks,as I live very far from her.

But when I see our goverment throwing millions/billions of dollars at other countries, to house, and feed people...well it makes me frigging sick.

Also when I hear a rich bastard complain about chipping in a couple hunded more a month out of his 6 figures, I wanna shoot them in the face. Or "accidently" bump them on the nearest railroad tracks.

But I don't do it, I'd never do it. Cause I believe in the great universal equilizer. Karma-

I am just one case out of hundreds of thousands. So all of you rich people outta be scared, because...

Originally posted by jam321
It is right around the corner.

Socialism isn't a bad thing. It just isn't something I want or want to see. I believe it makes people less productive in life. Why work hard if you are still going to get an equal share? Why study? Would you still have rich people in a socialist society? I also don't like the way it makes the people dependent upon the government rather than the other way around.

The "socialism" you describe here does not exist anywhere.

All forms of politics these days are mixes of "unregulated market mechanisms" and "regulating directives steered by political structures and institutes and corporations". Which also includes all kinds of different balances between central control and decentralization.

Nobody talks about "socialism" anymore, but maybe post-socialism, just as liberalism is neo-liberalism and coservatism neo-conservatism. You could say, that is all bull, different names ,same thing, but in reality that is not the case. I think we are arriving in a an age we can not afford to stand just in one corner, we have to find a new balance between regulation and free markets.

Humans are SOCIAL creatures....
And live in SOCIETIES

Well mostly, but not in America



Seriously, we all depend on each other anyways. I couldnt survive if farmers decided to keep their food for them. And all your paper money you cherish so much, you already pay tax on it..its called INTEREST. So you pay for the welfare of the rich Feds and Bankers and that for you isnt a problem?

I am very happy to give a share of my pay if I can get all the benefits I couldnt afford anyways if I had to rely on greedy private insurers and pharmaceutical companies. I want to live in peace and not fear the day I lose my job for whatever reason, or if I am simply ill and unable to work.

Who are the slaves?

I don't understand why you Americans are so damn black and white.

You seem to think that the "socialism" that Obama wants to supposedly adopt is like, mega hardcore communism or something.

It's not. Look at Canada. We are about as socialist as American will become. Guess what guys? There are still rich and poor people. You can still get a great job and make millions of dollars just like you can in America. The difference is you aren't completely screwed over if you're broke.

That's right. I just blew your mind didn't I?

Originally posted by Nola213
So all of you rich people outta be scared, because...

I'm not scared, nor mad at anyone either (yet). Nobody owes me jack, and I don't owe anyone else anything (well okay, I still have about 6k to yet pay on some medical bills of MY OWN, but it's my problem and I'll deal with it thank you). I wouldn't think to get mad at anyone else and make demands of them, regardless of my predicament. I do my own thing and mind my own business the best I can and that is that. I will get mad however if anyone tries to mess up my life and get in face and start making demands of me. I do not covet anyone, not even the rich. I accept who and what I am and would never sell my soul for mandatory socialism and ideals. I just want to be left alone!

I am not a rich man, but I don't think that entitles me to someone else's wealth.

One point was raised that the average tax payer has never “earned” the roads, hospitals, and other public services that were funded by tax dollars. Apparently you have to had built all of these things by hand to have a right to use them. My response to this point is that not everyone has a primary hand in building infrastructure, but that does not negate the fact that citizens pay taxes to the government, and in turn get to utilize these resources. To say that someone has not earned the public resources is arrogant beyond belief! That notion would just work to defraud every citizen in the US.

Another point was that the only people who don't like socialism are the rich and ignorant. This is laughable. I demand that all those who so greatly attest to socialistic values to please read up on the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and so forth. “Oh that's not the socialism we are talking about”, you complain. “We want the happy kind were everyone behaves and follows along with how they are suppose to act in a socialist paradise.” Utopian socialism does not exist for large, strong, centralized governments! If the US were to even attempt what some of you are insisting the people would turn into a governmental commodity in law and practice.

One last point. No one ever said that you would get an easy or fair life. I am tired of people telling me hard up stories and then using that to justify growing the state to a tyrannical size. If you have a family, stop with all the nonsense that you can't provide for them, and so the government has step in to pay the difference. News flash, if you can't provide then maybe you should not have kids and costs you can't pay for. It is amazing how everyone feels entitled to a large family, a stable job, health care, and other various “stuff”. You have a problem, turn to your family, church, or charity. Leave me alone. I don't know you. I have my own problems to deal with. I will defend my wealth and property to the very end. Stop trying to use the state to steal wealth and just go do it yourself if you believe in socialism so much.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Seriously, we all depend on each other anyways. I couldnt survive if farmers decided to keep their food for them.

Sounds like a personal problem. If you want to be self sufficient you can, you just have to work for it. Just because you can't survive doesn't mean that no one else could. You are using a personal trait to force socialism on other people. If you want to be dependent on other people that is fine, just don't force you perspective on me.

And all your paper money you cherish so much, you already pay tax on it..its called INTEREST. So you pay for the welfare of the rich Feds and Bankers and that for you isnt a problem?

Yes that is a great problem for me. Why then would you throw more of your rights and wealth at these people? Abolish the Fed, have sound money, that doesn't mean we all have to grow government.

I am very happy to give a share of my pay if I can get all the benefits I couldnt afford anyways if I had to rely on greedy private insurers and pharmaceutical companies. I want to live in peace and not fear the day I lose my job for whatever reason, or if I am simply ill and unable to work.

If you want to voluntarily give and help out others that is great, just don't go looking to back your adventure with the state's money and guns.

Who are the slaves?

Those who attest to socialism but have no understanding of the real world effects a system like that entails.


[edit on 19-11-2008 by NettleTea]

[edit on 19-11-2008 by NettleTea]

Do you fully understand Socialism? or just what you see as being perks of Socialism? Ever been to a Socialistic country and try to get 'good' health-care quickly? Want to witness an emergency room where people with pretty serious problems wait countless hours only to be seen using substandard equipment with under trained personnel...sure Socialisms for you guy!!! Ever see the state of dentistry in nations like (first world mind you) Great Britain? Reason the world pokes fun at their teeth is directly related to yup Socialism....practically NO good dentists in that entire nation...no money in it. Also, unemlpoyment rates skyrocket in these nations and then leave the burden on the very govt /people you wanted in place to begin with...no one wants to works 'as hard' now..the state will look out for us......not exactly a recipe for ambitious progress...like we've seen here in the USA..we've led the WORLD in Industry, tech, pretty much all around due to Capitalism and its ideals and drive for success....so, ya sure go move to a socialistic country , quit your job, relax and wait countless hours for sub-par medical treatment, have fun.

Instead of continuing to tell you why socialism is bad, I will be positive and tell you socialists what to do here in America.

If you want the sweeping universal programs, with the taxes to pay for them, go and argue for them at the STATE level! This is the way to go because...

1) This is the more Constitutional route (Tenth Amendment and such).

2) It provides for a more personal discussion that allows for local sovereignty and personal responsibility.

3) If worse comes to worst you can always MOVE to another STATE that is more in line with your views (giving people choice in how they live their lives)

Why get the Federal Government involved?

Originally posted by Camilo1
Go live in Cuba for a while and tell me in a couple of years if you still like socialism....

Bingo!

It never works and if you look up the definition (on dictionary.com) it's the precursur in marxist thought to communism.

A lot of people confuse socialism with the Nazis version of "national socialism" which was not exactly true socialism.

I believe that hit the nail on the head right there. A lot of people think of Cuba, Nazi Germany, and the USSR when they think of Socialism...and while their systems may have been based off Socialism, it was done wrong and wasn't true to it's roots.

For anyone feels 'putting hands in each others pockets" or anything along those lines is some sort of taboo, I feel sorry for your mentality because the fact is that capitalism doesn't work. In fact, it could be compared to a sinking ship, kept only afloat by desperate actions (bail outs anyone?) taken by those in charge (elites).

Now I'm not saying Socialism is the end all answer either, but I don't think people will ever be equal to one another until we are truly just that. Equal. I also think people need to realize we don't have to 'cling' to one way of life, especially if it makes so many people unhappy, just because Mother Culture has taught us that there can be no other way to live because there is nothing better. That's a lie.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by JayTaylor]

Originally posted by JayTaylor
Now I'm not saying Socialism is the end all answer either, but I don't think people will ever be equal to one another until we are truly just that.

We weren't meant to be equal. We should however have equal opportunity to succeed or fail based upon our own merit and worth and efforts. I mean, you can take this equality (a.k.a. COVET business) stuff to far. "Hey, it's not fair I'm not attractive or talented enough to be a celebrity movie star making millions ~ so compensate me, it's only fair!" Yeah, right. Say, lets resequence everyones DNA so we're all the same, then we'll have true equality. Right? Socialism sounds like a COVETERS dream come true.

Granted, there should be safety nets to catch the truly disadvantaged and disabled, but instead of involuntarily enslaving others to pay for those in true need and unable to help themselves, why not fund it through other means, voluntary means. This is a social issue that should be resolved with a moral solution.

Don't buy into this "socialism for all" scam, it's only a ploy to implement the NWO, and once they have you totally dependant upon them for all your needs, you'll all be sorry. There are other solutions, morally righteous solutions, for these social issues! We don't need a nanny state for all to help the few disadvantaged among us all that aren't.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Very nice. Now look at Canada or the Netherlands and tell me how what you said applies there.

..
We weren't meant to be equal..

Says who? You? Your govt? Your God?
Actually, other than genetics, we are all born equals. We all have hands and a brain. Who are you to say that mother nature has some bigger plans for one or the other? Any poor african kid can learn and do the job you are doing, but people in your mentality prevent equality.
All our inequalities are man-made. Politics, racism, greed and so many other factors we inflige upon each other.

Originally posted by littlehorn
Do you fully understand Socialism? or just what you see as being perks of Socialism? Ever been to a Socialistic country and try to get 'good' health-care quickly? Want to witness an emergency room where people with pretty serious problems wait countless hours only to be seen using substandard equipment with under trained personnel...sure Socialisms for you guy!!! Ever see the state of dentistry in nations like (first world mind you) Great Britain? Reason the world pokes fun at their teeth is directly related to yup Socialism....practically NO good dentists in that entire nation...no money in it. Also, unemlpoyment rates skyrocket in these nations and then leave the burden on the very govt /people you wanted in place to begin with...no one wants to works 'as hard' now..the state will look out for us......not exactly a recipe for ambitious progress...like we've seen here in the USA..we've led the WORLD in Industry, tech, pretty much all around due to Capitalism and its ideals and drive for success....so, ya sure go move to a socialistic country , quit your job, relax and wait countless hours for sub-par medical treatment, have fun.

Okay where do I start.

I actually work in the UK NHS for a start off. UK doctors and nurses are no worse trained than US ones nor are other EU, Canadian or Australian Healthcare medical staff. True, dentistry is a problem in the UK, but that is because it was basically privatised. Unemployment is no worse than anywhere else in the western world.

As for the US leading the world .... do me a favour, what a crock full of # that statement is. Go read about inventions and tech and other things first before making such a rash statement.

If the US healthcare system is so great, how come it is ranked in the world so low? Look it up yourself.

Stop deceiving yourselves that US is best ....... In many cases it is not.

Originally posted by TheOracle
Says who? You? Your govt? Your God?

Nobody says, it's just the way it is. Look around. Some are born short, others tall, some inept, others not. Fact of life, deal with it, live with it. Covet is a bad thing.

Actually, other than genetics, we are all born equals.

NOT. Most do not have equal opportunity to succeed. Now, I'm totally against a socialist NWO, but I'm for a socially responsible equal opportunity One World Order. Nothing would please me more than to see all the borders and fences disappear. And, abolish all income/slave taxes (tax things on the front end to pay for social and infrastructure programs). And, lets level the playing field with a One World global currency.

Don't enslave people, or tell them where they can live and work and how much they can earn. Equality is equal opportunity, not socialism.