I want socialism.

Originally posted by Mahatma87
Constitutional Republic where unalienable rights are upheld above all else is the answer imo.

Stupid media propagating the fallacy that democracy is heaven on earth does not help. Stupid is not the word, deviant would be better.

Also a "this will do for the meanwhile" sollution....

the Netherlands -> parlamentary constitutional monarchy in which the monarch does not personally exercise power.

also a "this will do for the meanwhile" sollution

Or are you saying that those "unalienable rights" have been, are being or going to be upheld by past, current and future leaders of your country..

Aslong as money plays a role the people with power (read: the people with money) are the ones who have the last say in everything....
Think about it....take away money and what else would remain but a pure social structure in which people do not compete to get the most....

[edit on 25/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

edit: ahh yes..the fatique is setting in again...here come the typos...


[edit on 25/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

Are you talking about a resource economy as per the Zeitgeist Addendum?

reply to post by Mahatma87


I haven't yet learned all about Zeitgeist there is to know but from what if seen it makes atleast a lot more sence than the path we've been following.....i'm not yet sure if i'm ready to believe everything about Zeitgeist.....but the basic principale makes sense.....

but then again....who am i

edit : yep, you've guessed it....typos. I should really take more time for this.

[edit on 25/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

You can have socialist aspects of a society without going all the way, such as we enjoy here in England.
Many people seem to have negative connotations of socialism, ideas of laziness in those who will live of the welfare state. This does not have to be so. Certain aspects of socialism can be taken and used to good effect (the NHS for example). It can be seen as a safety net on which any person in society, irrespective of class, ethnicity or any other aspect, can use when we reach 'tough times', which is inevitable. The only part it seems that many greedy Americans have such a tough time getting their head around is the fact that the working, healthy people who are not currently using it have to pay into this system. It's a question of being selfish.

Yeah, people don't understand that we already have socialist tenets in our capitalist society.

1. Government agencies such as the FCC control business. They regulate what business can and can't do. That's a tenet of socialism.
   
   
2. Acts, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, further control business. This act forces CEO accountability on financial statements and disallows the accounting and auditing firm to be the same.
   
   
3. Welfare - duh
   
   
4. Medicaid - duh
   
   
5. Price floors and Price ceilings
   
   
6. Minimum Wage
   
   
7. Subsidies (Without them, we wouldn't have affordable airlines or food)
   
   
8. etc

People hear socialism and they have no idea what they are thinking about. We are already under a socialist-capitalism hybrid, and some people just want a couple more socialist features.

Socialism keeps capitalism honest and in-check.

do you collect an American paycheck from an American company? I'm grateful I could afford to go to a George Carlin show and listen to him cry about the American dream.

Originally posted by PeaceUk
You can have socialist aspects of a society without going all the way, such as we enjoy here in England.
Many people seem to have negative connotations of socialism, ideas of laziness in those who will live of the welfare state. This does not have to be so. Certain aspects of socialism can be taken and used to good effect (the NHS for example). It can be seen as a safety net on which any person in society, irrespective of class, ethnicity or any other aspect, can use when we reach 'tough times', which is inevitable. The only part it seems that many greedy Americans have such a tough time getting their head around is the fact that the working, healthy people who are not currently using it have to pay into this system. It's a question of being selfish.

In socialism the PEOPLE take care of everything. You're in charge of your jobs and everything else. So actually socialism isn't being lazy at all. I would even argue it's quite the other way around because it's done by the people your country in socialism depends on the people and how everyone works together on it. If you put people in government who don't care and are lazy (see the Bushies) the results will be lazy. I hope all these greedy Americans don't take their Social Security checks when they retire. That'll be hypocritical. I wanted to add more people are dependent on you. You can't be lazy on something because of how many people rely on you. If you're on your own and you don't do something it'll effect only you but with socialism it'd effect everyone.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by LittlePinky82]

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
Yeah, people don't understand that we already have socialist tenets in our capitalist society.

1. Government agencies such as the FCC control business. They regulate what business can and can't do. That's a tenet of socialism.
   
   
2. Acts, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, further control business. This act forces CEO accountability on financial statements and disallows the accounting and auditing firm to be the same.
   
   
3. Welfare - duh
   
   
4. Medicaid - duh
   
   
5. Price floors and Price ceilings
   
   
6. Minimum Wage
   
   
7. Subsidies (Without them, we wouldn't have affordable airlines or food)
   
   
8. etc

People hear socialism and they have no idea what they are thinking about. We are already under a socialist-capitalism hybrid, and some people just want a couple more socialist features.

Socialism keeps capitalism honest and in-check.

Yep. You can't destroy capitalism (even though I'd like to) but it's better to be honest instead of like right now. Don't forget public schools, libraries, the police and fire department are other examples.

reply to post by LittlePinky82


What do you mean that they can't destroy capitalism? Isn't that what they are doing right now with the bailout?

I like the socialism ideology. I think that socialism would work better than capitalism if it actually worked the same as it did on paper. I would like to see an economic system that has capitalist and socialistic elements in it. I don't want capitalism to completely disappear but I would like it more tightly regulated so economic disasters like this one that the world is in doesn't occur in the future.

reply to post by PeaceUk


unfortunately part of the cynisism here in America spawns from a welfare system we already have; one that rewards bad behavior and leads to a sort of vicious circle of crack heads and lazy people abusing the system while the rest of us pay into it, and often can't get it when WE, the payers, need it. One thing people around the world must realize about the American government is that it was never intended to be as big or powerful (on a national level) as it is. It was supposed to basically provide protection and unification for the states, leaving the rest up to more localized governments which can run more efficiently, which is why smaller European governments seem to prosper in areas where America seems to be failing.
America needs not socialism or communism, but a huge reform back to the constitution, back to our forefathers dreams and outline, and back to a society who's actions are based on collective MORALS and LOGIC and not just the hard letter of the LAW. This is where we have gone wrong. Along with an overpowering federal government, we now have a society in which people base their decisions on whether or not it is legal, not whether or not it is right or wrong. I blame 'everyone gets to vote' (something origionally just for the educated, even if it was done so through racism and sexism).

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I agree with your views. What we need is for the Government and economy return to its original purpose. I am not implying that we should bring back slavery but at least we should get the Govt to work for us again. How would we go about doing that?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I honestly have no idea what we can do. Spread the message. one thing I've been doing lately is asking people why they continue to vote republican or democratic, and you'd be surprised at how many people either don't know or ignore the fact that congress runs the country, and the president is supposed to be a balance, while also being a sort of figure head of America; the national diplomat, if you will. It does seem, however, that the more intelligent, free thinking, and cynical a person is, the more open they are to the notion that perhaps we the voters are to blame, and that the bipartisan system is just to help keep us arguing amongst ourselves. I've also noticed that in these same people it's not necessary to explain things to them, if you plant the seed of doubt and mistrust in their mind they'll do their own research and sure enough, no more than a month later, they'll talk your ear off on subjects such as the fallacy that is the government, and how far we've strayed from our purpose, and how everything in american life, you're personal, public, social and governmental lives are all just dog and pony shows.

Unfortunately the majority of people will continue to be idiots, and it seems we have two options: live your life the best you can and take joy in the small victories and philosophical beauty of nature and love, or revolution. cold, hard, possibly bloody revolution. Your choice.

Most people who wants socialism probably have never even read Marx once in their life so its pretty funny when they say "I want socialism", "socialism is about being nice to each other" or "socialism is not marxism" and "marxism is not communism"

I would recommend reading "Das Kapital" and the "communist manifesto" before even attemp talking about "socialism".

PD: The people that fool themselves thinking that european social-democracy like the one in Norway or Sweeden has anything to do with the socialist ideology or marxism should not even be aloud to post

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by PeaceUk

 

America needs not socialism or communism, but a huge reform back to the constitution, back to our forefathers dreams and outline, and back to a society who's actions are based on collective MORALS and LOGIC and not just the hard letter of the LAW.

I would just like to point out that the American people no longer share collective morals or logic. The "melting pot" stopped melting a long time ago. Any state government trying to run an autonomous system would face all the same challenges that our federal government has to deal with right now. All the issues would be the same - gay rights, women's rights, illegal immigrants, gun rights, etc. The list never seems to end. (probably never will)

I also favor a democratic system with socialistic policies for full healthcare and education. We could pay for it easily with a flat tax - One of my professors stated a 10% flat tax would pay for pretty much anything we would ever want, and eliminate our tax debt.

I don't see how *2* additional socialistic policies threatens freedom or encourages laziness. You can't eat your healthcare to survive, you still need a job to buy food. You can't live in your school, I imagine they would kick you out eventually. Not to mention all the other things you would want to buy - a tv, maybe some video games, a dog, the list goes on. I don't see laziness.

Full education would be a godsend to our people, I think. I've been struggling to get through school (I refuse to take out a student loan) and free college education would really help out the American people. If everyone learned a skill, the demand for good jobs would skyrocket, businesses would be pressured to open new stores and offices for people to work at. Competition can be good, sometimes.

I admire the socialism of the Scandinavian countries. Everyone has a safety net. Unlike with the NeoCons and the fascist Libertarians. Fascists [Nazis] and Libertarians both love the eugenics idea of survival-of-the-fittest, as if we all roam the wild plains. No system is perfect, but I see the Scandinavian ones as the most humane. I like all things humanitarian and humane.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by simonecharisse]

Right now in america there is nothing but chaos, and we need a system to replace the one we have right now which is old and outdated. America is falling apart and we're dragging the rest of the world with us. All of you all that say Socialism is wrong and a bad idea, Just look at the system that we have right now and tell me how good we are doing. I believe that people under Socialism will NOT be lazy because look at America right now and you will see that americans are the ones that are lazy and broke. I use to believe that socialiam was wrong until i realized that the only reason i believed that was because of the media and the other nay-sayers. I now welcome socialism in america.

Free education is about as far as I'd be willing to go when it comes to socialism, and even then, I'd prefer to have elements of capitalism mixed in. I think that families should be allowed to choose where their children go to school, and that will cause schools to compete with each other to get hte most kids. Parents will put their students in the best schools, and poor performing schools would either have to reform their policies, or close down. I say provide bonuses to schools who put out the highest performing students.


What do you think we should have socialized, and why do you think it will be better than a free market solution?

[edit on 9-3-2009 by syntax132]

I have a much better idea that would make both camps happy: Divide this nation into two halves, and let all the socialists go play jump'n'jack among themselves within their own nation, and the rest of us that do not want a nanny in our lives can play among ourselves in our own nation.

Now, why can't we do THAT instead? Hum? Anyone care to answer THAT?

reply to post by Divinorumus


That's already been tried and it resulted in a civil war...

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