All religious people are starting to be critisized

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Can you honestly sit here and tell me that other parents (Nonchristian) do not teach thier children their beliefs when they are young ?

Well no, you have to tell them something, and this is where, as a parent, you have to make a choice. Are you going to continue perpetuating a myth, or are you going to give them information from the pool of human knowledge. Unfortunately for mankind, a lot of people choose the former.

How about trying to keep a balance until they have the comprehension to make their own informed decisions?
(scenario)
Mommy/Daddy, is there a God?
"Well, some people believe so, and some people don't. The buddhists think this, the christians think this, some people think this, others think this....Science doen't really deal with this type of stuff, but that doesn't mean that they can't try. Here are some things science has found out about the universe in relation to a possible god... Philosophers deal with this stuff a lot, here are some thoughts from them..."
Talk to your child, interact with your child, get them to think, educate your child about the world, not just your doctrine.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by cruzion]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by cruzion]

reply to post by crazyjames65


Why any of this should come as a surprise to you - I wonder about! If you claim to go according to the Bible, then, Christians should be the last ones to be surprised as to "end of days" criticism, or persecution.

I too was raised Christian, and was formerly very religious. Expecting persecution goes with the territory.

I am no longer religious but very much believe in God. Now, I look back and can see the contempt I used to have for non-believers. It reeks! I would never have seen the reality of this had I not left religion.

A Christian can attract many more "future soldiers" with honey rather than vinegar! But...contempt is a virus amongst Christians.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

First, can you please make use of the quote button when quoting someone else's post? It's a bit difficult to know who said what otherwise. Just a friendly request for easier readability.

Now on to the question you posed, I can't speak for anyone else but in my house we don't generally talk about religious beliefs. I have two small children, and the oldest knows who Jesus is but we have not had any talks about how me and my husband feel about religion or what we believe. I feel that neither of them are old enough to make their own decisions about religion just yet and I won't be making those decisions for them.

If they ever ask or bring up the topic, which won't happen for awhile since the oldest just turned 6 and the youngest isn't even walking yet, then I will be happy to have a conversation with them about it and tell them what I think and why. Until then, I'm not going to force my beliefs on them nor will I force my beliefs on them when they do ask. I don't care what flavor of religion you follow, forcing your beliefs on a child and telling them that your version is right and all others are wrong is not right.

My husband and I had decided that we would not tell our children there is a Santa because we both feel it is an unnecessary lie, but family members decided they needed to be told there is one anyway. So rather than crush a small child with the truth which would be needlessly cruel, we now have to wait till he's old enough to not be too upset about it.

Jenna the reason I dont use the quote button is because I get in trouble for the excessive quoting ...what is a person supposed to do ?


And for your info ...I did not tell my babies about Jesus as soon as they came out of my womb .....neither did I tell them santa was real .....in fact I told them the truth ..that it is the spirit of santa that is important ..and that the message is giving ......not getting ..
And I never forced any of my kids to church (I barely attended church myself) ...when they came to me asking about God etc .. ..then I would discuss it with them Just like you .... Never have I forced anything on my kids *(except to behave properly) ..I want them to make their own choices about the Lord .......the Lord does not want anyone to come who is forced ......and in fact forcing them only leads to more rebellion ....

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Jenna the reason I dont use the quote button is because I get in trouble for the excessive quoting ...what is a person supposed to do ?

Just delete the parts you aren't responding to, or the minimum that is absolutely necessary.

Never have I forced anything on my kids *(except to behave properly) ..I want them to make their own choices about the Lord .......the Lord does not want anyone to come who is forced ......and in fact forcing them only leads to more rebellion ....

I did not mean to imply that you specifically had. And I think it's great that you talk to them about it instead of force-feeding them. But the sad fact is a lot of parents do just the opposite of what you and I do. I have been subjected to it, and I have seen videos of children who were being brain-washed at church camps. It does happen.

reply to post by Simplynoone

Hello Simplynoon,


I see Simplynoon that you are referring to the killings and wars of today. But I am referring to the blood shed that was led in the name of God in the OT due to bad seeds (according to their God) who didnt deserve to have life I guess. Where was the hope, where was the chance for these people? (I think you and I have dwelled in similar discussions of interests before)...

Sometimes the women were saved from these bad seeds and were taken unto the children of God (as they liked to be called)....if the seed was so bad to kill thousands of men, then I find no reason to save any women or children, if God lost hope in the men, why keep hope in the women that he told these children of God to save for themselves?

Sure, you can come back and say that this was a time of wrath and then Jesus brought grace. Again, I have an issue, my spirit has an issue with this. Either God did not order any killings for land or good seed verses bad seed or God is not consistent with Thees character. I find it more important to understand God is consistent with Thees nature then I find it important to make reasons for God ordering those men in the OT to kill.

Today, if you claim yourself as a Christian, sadly but surely, one assumes that you follow the Bible word for word. Ive had to shed that label in order for people to understand, I do not stand behind the OT. It is full of blood, mens blood and animals blood. It claims man had to kill animals to be freed from their sins. This is barbaric and I choose to hold Thee in higher standards then this.

My changing of mind was not easy or out of reasons because I just didnt tlike what the Bible said. It took me a couple yrs. to realize, I was worthy to understand Thee, outside of all material things, including the Bible. BUT, I will say, this doesnt make Christians bad or whatever in my eyes, for I see many paths having valid teachings to learn about our nature, Gods nature, the order of this nature.

My best,
LV

this is my beleif:
Christmas was orignally Jesus birthday and now commercialized to be
a santa thing, and presents ect ect.
I guess that would be the church and state seperation thing, but why ask
a nativity seen be taken down if we were not under attack by some people
who hate Jesus.

well it time for more coffee and my peter-pan sandwich

reply to post by crazyjames65


Just because people want the separation of church and state, and want our nation to be a secular nation, does not mean that people hate jesus.

My guess would be that the majority of non believers are completely indifferent... They would just rather not have religious views impressed on them everywhere they turn.

Secularism does not equal hate.

how does a Nativity Seen hurt anyone?

reply to post by crazyjames65


Think of it this way...

Suppose you lived in the same neighborhood as some high profile satanists... and every year, they put out a display of upside down crosses and other satanic symbols on the lawns of their establishment.

Would this make you angry?

I dont think there symbols would bug me to much because it would
be there progotive to do whatever they like.
It would be there choice and not mine.
To all there own!

reply to post by crazyjames65


Well, I must say you are in the minority of believers... but on to my next point:

Now suppose they put these symbols on the lawn of the City/Town hall, or in court buildings or other government facilities?

would this be ok?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


I already told you many times ..I cannot explain what was happening or why it happened the way it did in the OT ....I wasnt there and I am not God ...
But if God did it then yes I would think he had a reason and would be justified in doing whatever he saw fit to do ...because he is God and it is his creation .
I dont always agree with what God does ...because I am human and do not see or know the whole picture of things.......................and even I question him and ask why ...why ....why did you create the devil why this why that .
But that does not mean that I demand an answer ..and it does not mean that just because I dont understand it that it wasnt necessary for him to do ..etc .

with placing these symbols on a courthouse or other goverment place
would have to depend on the goverment officails who run there buildings
and not me.
I would ignore these objects if I were to see them.

if I remember right satan was an angel until satan wanted to rule heaven
and was kicked out. then good vs. evil began.

reply to post by crazyjames65


realistically I think you are just giving the answers that you think you are supposed to give... but I'm not going to resort to ad hominem.

Realistically if you think this way, you are truly in the minority. Believers were outraged when courts allowed people to swear oaths on the Koran, or without bibles at all. They were also outraged when school mandated prayer was outlawed.

The reality is, for some reason, Christianity in particular takes attempts at keeping church/state separate, and secularism as a whole as an "attack" on their beliefs.

This is not the case.

Instead, the bill of rights and the U.S. Constitution protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Hence, mob rule and majority rules ideas are not an option.

Spend some time thinking from the shoes of the minority here. If every day in school, it was mandatory to face the east and pray to mecca, would you be ok with it?

If every corner you turned, someone said "satan bless you" would that not upset you?

You are looking at it from the viewpoint of the majority, where these little infringements on your beliefs are few and far between. Instead, you need to think about what it would be like to have your beliefs be "wrong" from the viewpoints of others almost all the time.

Understand that, and you may be able to understand the source of the friction.

Originally posted by crazyjames65
if I remember right satan was an angel until satan wanted to rule heaven
and was kicked out. then good vs. evil began.

This has nothing to do with the discussion we are having. Good/evil, satan/god all mean something different to people of different faiths.

But does this mean that you are less than ok with the satanic symbols? or are you trying to state that Satanists are Evil?

There is a difference between Satanics and Satanists... You might want to research into that...

reply to post by crazyjames65


I understand that part ...my question to God would be why didnt you just chain him up then ...why did he allow him down here to torment us ..Even though I know that we would not know what good was unless we knew what evil was ..
(at least that is what the bible says) and I also know that God uses satan to do his will even though satan and us do not actually see how good comes out of it most of the time ...but it does ..and so that is a good enough answer for me ..at least for now ..until I get a better understanding of satans purpose here ...

I still will have alot of questions for him ...lol ...mainly because I have always been someone who questions everything ..(even if yall dont think I do ..I do ...I used to get in so much trouble in school for asking WHY ...and in church ...and at home ..) ...I needed an explanation for everything ....because I said so ..just wasnt a good enough answer for me ..And I am sure that God may be just as irritated with me as they are for the same reasons ..but I am also sure since he made me who I am ..then surely he understands me .....................at least I hope he does ..

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Simplynoone]

now that was funny "satan bless you" now if someone said that to me
I would say what kind of drugs are you on?

because satan will not bless me. still laughing on that one.

if we pray hard to God and Jesus we might get the answers to questions we have. the answers may come from any source like, your family,
neighbor, even someone you just met a the grocery store.
the thing is to realize the answer when it comes to you.

reply to post by crazyjames65


This doesn't negate my argument.

But I think you are mistaken on what a Satanist is... and assuming I mean Satanic.

A Satanist is one who believes that the bible was written by Evil in an attempt to slander the good... in other words.. the rolls of god/satan are pretty much reversed... they believe you worship the evil, and have been deluded into taking the bible as a work of good...

A Satanic, thinks the bible is correct, but chooses to embrace and worship evil.

Key differences... therefore, a Satanist COULD bless you, as they believe they are worshiping the good force...

Now knowing this, why would you laugh if someone to bless you in the name of their god, fully thinking your god is evil?

Would you take it as acceptable if people laughed when you said "god bless you?"

To a Satanist, YOU are worshiping the devil.

disclaimer: This is an example to explain a point of view from the position of the minority. Please have enough maturity to refute the point I'm making, and not attacking the religion of the example. This would be counterproductive.