All religious people are starting to be critisized

according to elf, what I just did is "an opinion", and i didn't push any kind of dogma, i didn't tell you to worship the quark and renounce old newtonian theories, I just stated that what I believe in has actual proven support rather than fairytales and bedtime stories.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by whiterabbit85]

For me, most of my contempt stems from the fact that the christian conservatives not only voted for the worst president in American history twice, but also supported the imbecile no matter how many mistakes he made.

Also, for the last eight years (really since the creation of this religion) the christian conservatives have been attempting to turn their personal moral beliefs into laws. Essentially, they have been trying to make everyone in America adhere to their beliefs by force.

Aside from this, they have urged/forced our educational system to begin teaching their beliefs (creationism) in our science classes.

All of these things make me sick and only work to push me further away from this organized religion and enrage my contempt for its ardent practitioners. This being said, would you believe that I have a strong faith in God and pray on a daily basis? Because I do.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by BluegrassRevolutionary]

reply to post by whiterabbit85


you're free to dress up an attack as an opinion if you wish. it really doesn't matter, your opinion in off topic to the point of trolling, and way out of line, in my opinion, but then thats just grass in the wind.

do you have anything to actually contribute do the thread like why exactly you feel the need to attack religion.

[edit on 18/11/08 by pieman]

Define "attack."

Also, define "criticism."

Is questioning someone's belief system one or the other?

Is criticism necessarily a bad thing?

It used to be that "criticism" led to something called "critical thinking, " whereby ideas were philosophised.

Have we lost the ability to philosophise? Have we become so sensitive that we can no longer "think critically" about certain topics?

The religious must be a very sensitive bunch if they are so affected by the opinion of the minority that criticises their belief structure.

I have to get more coffee and read some more threads and I will be back

Check out this thred for more info on tolerance in the Conspiracy in Religions forum. It might help.

Edit *Where is my preview post button?*

[edit on 11/18/2008 by darkelf]

Editied again because preview edit resets post to original condition

[edit on 11/18/2008 by darkelf]

I have a couple of issues with this thread. Firstly, how do people know you're religious in the first place? I doubt they've sat in cars outside your church taking photographs then driving off. It's far more likely that you or other people getting attacked are getting attacked because you've said something or done something first to let them know you're religious.

Secondly, I'll hesitate a guess that when you say 'religious' you actually mean 'Christian'. Are you equally defensive regarding the antagonism Muslims get from so many members of this site? is this one of those things where, like the Pastor Niemöller poem, they've finally come for you. Watched years of antagonism towards other faiths but now the grip of the Religious Right is slipping, it's time to get worried?

You see, I have 'religious views' myself but I've never once been attacked for it. The reason is because I keep it to myself and I don't really talk about it as it's nothing to do with anyone else and I don't want to push my own views onto other people regarding what's 'wrong' or 'right'. I'm not arrogant enough to tell other people how to live or that my way is the right way.

I've already stated the reasoning behind my dislike for religion. I dislike organised religion because it's sole purpose is to control the masses by filling weak minds with false truths and setting up strict rules to live by, and making the punishment for not following said rules eternal damnation.

Also, religion focuses far too much on the individual, rather than the whole. People are too busy worrying about pissing off an invisble man in the sky to realise that in the grand scheme of things, individuals are nearly meaningless, and it's the unification of mankind as a whole that is worth strivig toward.

As long as religion exists, mankind will never reach it's full potential. We cannot exist as one species, with common goals, while religions are starting wars over who really knows the name of the all-seeing father figure in the sky.

And aside from the enterprise of religion, religious followers irk me because religion removes the free thinking and the choice that actually MAKEs us human. People would rather accept that "God" or "Allah" - or vishnu, or Ra, or zeus or whoever else people pray to - has a plan for them, than take responsibility for thier own actions.

personally speaking, i would class ignorant criticism with an unwillingness to accept the position of the other person an attack. i object to it in principle regardless of the religion involved but i'm not often qualified to object because there is only one religion where i'm likely to be less ignorant than the attackers.

whiterabbit, thank's for your contribution, it's an interesting perspective. i believe you are fundamentally incorrect personally.

in my opinion there is a difference between religion and the use of religion to rally people to war or atrocity. any belief or ideology can be used for this purpose, atheism is a basic for communists and they've gone to war for their beliefs more than once.

it hardly matters what the masses choose to supply their opium, it's all just as mind numbing.

and i don't personally see the fact that the sheeple ascribe their will to a belief system as meaning the system is at fault, it seems to me to be a way to project responcibility away from the individual.

If you think that Christians react irrationally to criticism, just tell a sports fan that his favorite team sucks. Make sure you are wearing your 'flameproof' underwear.

The point is that many people identify with their beliefs to the point that they feel that an attack on their beliefs is an attack on them. You have to separate your beliefs from your feelings of self worth. It doesn't bother me when people attack my faith. I know what my faith has done for me.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

Originally posted by darkelf
If you think that Christians react irrationally to criticism

And Muslims and Jews and Hindu's etc.

correct me if i'm wrong... but Communism is prevalent in russia, china, etc. These places are primarily either Orthodox, or Buddhist, so i don't see how athiesm has been used or is a basic of, communism.

Fundamentally, Athiesm is the lack of belief in a higher being, it isn't a belief system in and of itself, it's more the freedom from the ties of a religious system.

That being said, i'm not talking solely of the use of religion as a rallying point for war, as not all members of a nation may posess the same belief system, but religion as a catalyst, and justification for war.

If not for religion, the first world war would simply have been an assassination, followed by localised skirmishes.

It is simply my opinion that in a modern world, science should be alll that open, enlightened minds need to feel secure, we should no longer need to clling to belief in something bigger than ourselves. We should be able to realise the responsibility and oppurtunity that comes with consciousness, and work o resolve the answers through provable means, rather than just accepting that it is beyond our understanding.

I don't see that any religion is being "attacked".

What is being attacked, and rightly so, are those who think it is acceptable to force their beliefs onto others.

If a thread on a forum is started by a religious person using their religion as a method of attacking others, people will defend themselves. If you use religion to attack people, it is entirely fair for those being attacked (and their sensible allies) to discredit that religion in their defense also.

If people stopped trying to force their religion onto others, then there wouldn't be a problem at all.

No one has a right to tell others how to live their life, and people should be able to live their life in any way they see fit as long as it doesn't harm another. It is when certain religions directly throw accusations and insults, block progress and equality, and directly destroy people that it becomes a serious problem, and people have a right to defend themselves against this.

It is unfortunate that such radicals give so many religious groups a bad name.

First of all, God gave everyone free will. He would like all to be saved, but not at the cost of forcing anyone to do anything. He also expects followers of the way to uphold the faith at all costs, but as with anything else, you must look at the bible as a whole. It paints one big picture. If you were to take certain parts of the bible away from the whole, you could make it say anything you want. You could use to bible to promote genocide, to wage war, even to steal, if taken out of context. The bottom line is this, above all else: Jesus commands us to love one another as ourselves. Would you beat yourself up because you are gay? No, of course not. Would you try to witness to yourself if you were gay and a christian? Of course you would, because the bible very clearly states that "some men had turned away from the natural use of a woman, burning with lust toward one another." But if you look at the parable of the seed sower you can clearly see that the sower didn't stick around and force the plant to grow. He allowed it to take it's course depending on what kind of ground it was rooted in. So it should be with this. God gave everyone to excercise their right to live as they please. Also, as far as the law goes, sodomy is still illegal in the country. It is a democracy, where majority rules. That is not something from the bible, but from man. The majority voted that gay people in cali and several other states should not receive the right to marry, so now we are called by God, and our own ruling body, to obey the laws of this place. There are many positive things anyone could do if they wish to change these laws, but violence and hate will change nothing and only make getting along while we are all here more difficult.

Originally posted by whiterabbit85
correct me if i'm wrong... but Communism is prevalent in russia, china, etc. These places are primarily either Orthodox, or Buddhist, so i don't see how athiesm has been used or is a basic of, communism.

en.wikipedia.org...

use wiki a starting point and continue as you will.

Fundamentally, Athiesm is the lack of belief in a higher being, it isn't a belief system in and of itself, it's more the freedom from the ties of a religious system.

no, freedom from belief is an agnosticism, holding no opinion on god either way. atheism is the belief that there is no god, specifically. no system is required to hold this belief.

That being said, i'm not talking solely of the use of religion as a rallying point for war, as not all members of a nation may posess the same belief system, but religion as a catalyst, and justification for war.

this is what i meant by rallying cry, sorry i wasn't clear. anything can be used for justification for war and if nothing can be found, someone wil make something up. religion is just a good unifier because it crosses the economic divide in a way that ideology doesn't.

It is simply my opinion that in a modern world, science should be alll that open, enlightened minds need to feel secure, we should no longer need to clling to belief in something bigger than ourselves. We should be able to realise the responsibility and oppurtunity that comes with consciousness, and work o resolve the answers through provable means, rather than just accepting that it is beyond our understanding.

religion is no detriment to inquiry, the powerful banking class in middle age italy propagated the idea that religion and science were mutually exclusive in order to retain the power of education with themselves.

it was about power then, not religion, it is about power now, not religion.

As per the topic title, rightly so. Religion is a deadly cancer. More people have been killed in the name of religion than any disease or pestilence on earth.
Believe in fantasy all you want but don't expect people to feel sorry for you or to sympathize with you when those beliefs are questioned or criticized.

Actually it's far simpler than all that. Religious people are being mocked more and more for a very simple reason. Religion is becoming more and more obsolete.

As literacy rates rise, and general quality of life continues to go up you can expect this trend to continue.

Already myself, I can't count how many friends I have who are not religious - yet their parents are. I think the likely hood of my friends children becoming religious on their own, after being raised in a house where religion is a non-issue, to be unlikely.

As with any minority, they will suffer reprisals from the 'normal' people. Not everyone mind you, but the more obsolete those quaint notions religious people have to society - the more ridicule they will face.

If you're religion gives you comfort in life. Somehow.. gives your life meaning, or perhaps explains things to you that you can't understand or don't WANT to that's great. However I put phrase the issue differently. Do not expect respect from atheists when we see that cross you wear around your neck as a modern day dunce cap.

p.s. I'm Anonymous Coward because I just found this place and was too tired/lazy to create an account yet, i will later

p.p.s. Have a nice day atheists.

reply to post by detachedindividual












This is exactly what Islam is doing today! It is their way or DEATH! It is a sad world that will tolerate this poison but condemn a religion of love and peace.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
What proof do you offer? After all you may be rightly told that you are wrong. Some religions would say that attending church is a demand and that you would go to hell without it.

I would have to disagree, no church will force you to go to church, they might make you feel quite uncomfortable and ashamed but they in no way force you to do anything really. Did you see that gay riot against the Christians? Intolerance of any type is bad, the Christian faith is one of the most tolerant faiths of all time. You could cite certain events such as the Crusades as examples that say quite the opposite but I like to think that was the result of one individuals decision, not the Christian faith as a whole.

The Bible is actually quite tolerant of other people and their ideas, granted you cannot force your idea on a Christian at which point they WONT be tolerant . Our Constitution was based on Christian ideals.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Oh here we go someone trying to turn the question around. There has been a lot of Christian bashing on here. Mostly from the gay group who is trying to defend their right to have gay marriage legal. We are not saying you need to go to church. And I do not know of any church that says if you don't attend you will burn in hell. I wouldn't go to a church like that.

We deserve respect too. Gays are asking for respect it goes around to the other side too.


Grandma