Those behind the Obama Birth Cert conspiracy

Rather than toot your horn why don't you look at the facts truth requires verfication its elementary that why we have rules and laws this person is your typically politician that does not want the truth to shine. It so simply like everyone here says -produce the record the constition requires a natual born citizen what is the problem can you read or do you really care about anything ecept your own verbal nonsense ?

reply to post by themamayada


The mainstream media is not reporting this, but alot of foreign websites I read frequently have been talking about this for weeks.

And once again, there is no actual proof anywhere of this. API hasn't released the supposed tape, and even if they did and she did say this, her testimony would be 'heresay' and wouldn't hold water in court.

In keeping with the three evidentiary requirements, the Hearsay Rule, as outlined in the Federal Rules of Evidence, prohibits most statements made outside a courtroom from being used as evidence in court. This is because statements made out of court normally are not made under oath, a judge or jury cannot personally observe the demeanor of someone who makes a statement outside the courtroom, and an opposing party cannot cross-examine such a declarant (the person making the statement). Out-of-court statements hinder the ability of the judge or jury to probe testimony for inaccuracies caused by Ambiguity, insincerity, faulty perception, or erroneous memory. Thus, statements made out of court are perceived as untrustworthy.

What is Heresay?

And once again, her quote that he was adopted in Indonesia does not disqualify the fact that when he returned to the U.S. his citizenship reverted back to its original form because Indonesia no longer had influence over his person.

And ArizonaScott, the whole school thing is a little overblown. Politifact has an article that explains Obama's education and religion in a bit more detail. Hope it clears up some suspicions for ya.

Obama's Education and Religion


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Avenginggecko]

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
But you're making an incredible deductive leap by stating he went to the embassy to declare Indonesian citizenship and renounce his U.S. citizenship. There is no concrete proof that Obama ever did any of that.

It's not so "incredible." Every mainstream media outlet reports that he in fact with 100% certainty, attended at least one Indonesian school. That's a fact you can check yourself. It is also a fact you need to be an Indonesian citizen to attend an Indonesian school. Logical deduction tells you that a) if boy = attended school b) only indonesian citizens can attend school c) boy = indonesian citizen.

Granted, maybe his dad slipped him into schools illegally. In which case, yes, he might not have been an Indonesian citizen. If this is the case, it doesn't give me a warm-fuzzy that his father disrespected another country's Law.

Here's what we know for sure:

There is no paperwork at any embassy that Obama had ever declared for Indonesia and renounced the U.S.

We don't know that for sure. No one has ever looked hard enough. Not seeing something does not mean it does not exist.

Obama was too young to renounce U.S. citizenship, regardless of the situation.

That is not true.

reply to post by Kaploink


The questions I would like answered by the folks propagating this nonsense..

Given that the McCain Campaign had enormous resources to research Obama's background....why didn't they bring this up if there was even a shred of veracity?

Ditto Hillary Clinton in the Primaries?

Also the GOP?

Ditto the Bush Administration?

The McCain Campaign seemed utterly willing to bend, distort and bloody the truth at every opportunity and had no reluctance what-so-ever in claiming our President Elect was a Muslim, Socialist, and yes even a terrorist...but somehow they drew the line at examining whether he was eligible to run and a US citizen!!???

If they were bringing up the parents of children that Obama's children played with and examing who Obama's nieghbors were...then you know they looked into this VERY hard.

What they came up with was....Well, he was in fact born in Hawaii, BUT maybe we can make use of this in other ways. We won't own it publically because it is obvious BS and would be egg on our face, but lets spin it out there to those who don't need convincing or proof and maybe we will get some mileage out of it in propaganda terms.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by redhatty

 

The DNC. This was actually a factor in the Berg case.

The Berg case was dismissed for lack of standing, and is currently in appeal over that decision - with Berg hoping that SCOTUS will hear the case.

The DNC afaik did not state anything about the vetting of Obama in any court documents, it merely claimed lack of standing.

Do you have different information?

I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

Another Q: Are birth certificated/birth records not public record? If so, which I believe they are, why don't these people that NEED to see Obama's BC just go find it themselves and quit wasting Obama's time? Oh yeah, because then they would have to invent something new to bitch about.

To those saying 'if he would just show the certificate this would all be over':

He did. He satisfied the RNC, the McCain campaign, the SCOTUS. Why are we wasting our time over all of this? Besides, is it Obama's burden of proof at this stage? No. He satisfied his.

The burden of proof is on YOU. PROVE that he is not a citizen.
Quite frankly, the guy has some other things going on than to address the very few that live in denial. You know, like preparing to take the reins on a really f***ed up economy and two wars.

And for the record, Bush sealed plenty of records too. It is common in politics, especially on the national stage.

The blatant ignorance in this thread is overwhelming. I bet some of you actually fool yourselves into thinking that you are 'impartial'. Hmmm.. how did you vote?

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

Another Q: Are birth certificated/birth records not public record? If so, which I believe they are, why don't these people that NEED to see Obama's BC just go find it themselves and quit wasting Obama's time? Oh yeah, because then they would have to invent something new to bitch about.

I have a copy of mine from Florida and it was no hassle to get.

As for getting a copy of Obama's BC, the state of Hawaii has sealed it, so no one can get a copy of it.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

I do, both of my long form and my short form, as well as a certified copy of my adoption records

Another Q: Are birth certificated/birth records not public record? If so, which I believe they are, why don't these people that NEED to see Obama's BC just go find it themselves and quit wasting Obama's time? Oh yeah, because then they would have to invent something new to bitch about.

No, they are considered medical records under HIPPA and therefor are not openly available. In Hawaii, if the birth record is over 75 yrs old, it becomes public record for genealogy purposes, but otherwise, it is not available to the public.

reply to post by redhatty


Well, if a birth record is considered protected, then what makes anyone feel entitled to see Obama's medical records. If it is truly protected, then even the Supreme Court can not subpoena this record or force it to be made public.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Aggie Man]

Originally posted by skeptic1

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

Another Q: Are birth certificated/birth records not public record? If so, which I believe they are, why don't these people that NEED to see Obama's BC just go find it themselves and quit wasting Obama's time? Oh yeah, because then they would have to invent something new to bitch about.

I have a copy of mine from Florida and it was no hassle to get.

As for getting a copy of Obama's BC, the state of Hawaii has sealed it, so no one can get a copy of it.

Even Obama? If he can get it, I bet he would have to go there in person to get it...otherwise, it could be anyone impersonating him and trying to request a copy. Right?

reply to post by Aggie Man


The state has sealed it to parties who are not Obama himself.

So, yes, that means he would have to request it himself, or a court order would have to be issued to subpoena the document from Hawaii.

reply to post by themamayada


But it is true...I think Rapin, SG, and I have all very clearly laid out the laws and reasoning behind Obama's citizenship, whereas the other side of the coin only has conjecture and hearsay - no evidence.

I invite Berg or any other citizen or agency to willfully and intelligently investigate Obama's past, as it should be. However, our legal system is 'innocent until proven guilty', and due to the complete lack of court appropriate evidence, Obama is a citizen and will be President.

The logic you use is called a syllogism, where a a conclusion is drawn from a major and minor premise. For example, Obama is black. Obama is an American. Therefore, Americans are black.

As you can see, a syllogism is only true when both the major and minor premises are true. As of yet, no one can prove that Obama was officially adopted by his father in Indonesia and somehow circumvented U.S. law to renounce citizenship.

Occam's razor: All things being equal, the simplest answer is often the best.

It seems to me that the simplest answer here is that his step-father fudged the school enrollment form, and that's about it.

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
And once again, her quote that he was adopted in Indonesia does not disqualify the fact that when he returned to the U.S. his citizenship reverted back to its original form because Indonesia no longer had influence over his person.

That's not the way the US citizenship laws work. Things don't just auto-magically revert back to normal because someone comes back to the US.

Dept of State website again (I'm extracting ones that "might" apply to Obama):

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality

Potentially Expatriating Acts
1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
2. taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
...
4. formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

It's an extremely serious thing to lose your US citizenship.

I just want to point out that I actually do like Obama. The problem is I don't believe he's been on the up-and-up about his past, which I think has been very complicated. If it was just him and his US-born Mom who stayed in Hawaii all their lives, things would be much easier. But throwing in a Kenya-born biological father and an Indonesian-stepdad makes establishing true citizenship very complicated.

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
It seems to me that the simplest answer here is that his step-father fudged the school enrollment form, and that's about it.

I agree. From what I understand, his stepfather was a shady character anyway. So why in the hell would he go through proper legal channels to adopt Obama, just so he could go to school. Even if he had, It changes nothing, Obama still would have had his US citizenship.

reply to post by southern_Guardian


yes yes, i know, in teh brainwashed pro-osama.. oh I mean obama people's eyes, anything that isn't short of worshiping this man as a god is wrong and hateful and racist, or whatever tag you can put on it.

of course, when the shoe was on teh other foot, it was perfectly ok.

yeah, I'd hate to be your credibility.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

I had to get a formal one from my State. Went to my state's Dept of Health "Division of Vital Records" on their website, filled out a bunch of information - and yeah, I had to prove it was me (or someone from my immediate family) requesting it - paid something like $10 and it was mailed to me.

Originally posted by themamayada
I just want to point out that I actually do like Obama. The problem is I don't believe he's been on the up-and-up about his past, which I think has been very complicated. If it was just him and his US-born Mom who stayed in Hawaii all their lives, things would be much easier. But throwing in a Kenya-born biological father and an Indonesian-stepdad makes establishing true citizenship very complicated.

I wish folks would just treat this like the NFL instant replay. There is not enough evidence to overturn the ruling on the field, so the play stands as called...and JUST MOVE ON with the game!

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
reply to post by southern_Guardian

 

yes yes, i know, in teh brainwashed pro-osama.. oh I mean obama people's eyes, anything that isn't short of worshiping this man as a god is wrong and hateful and racist, or whatever tag you can put on it.

of course, when the shoe was on teh other foot, it was perfectly ok.

yeah, I'd hate to be your credibility.

Wow!

The very fact that you said OSAMA makes your entire post biased.

Originally posted by themamayada

Originally posted by Aggie Man
I got a question for everyone: How many of you have a certified copy of your birth certificate? I sure don't! Can I get one? Probably, but I would have to go out of my way to get it.

I had to get a formal one from my State. Went to my state's Dept of Health "Division of Vital Records" on their website, filled out a bunch of information - and yeah, I had to prove it was me (or someone from my immediate family) requesting it - paid something like $10 and it was mailed to me.

What proof were you able to give them that satisfied their requirements? It couldn't have been very solid proof if you were able to obtain it w/o showing up in person w 2 forms of photo identification, a passport, a social security card and a copy of your birth certificate...oh yeah, that last one was what you were attempting to obtain