The Christians hating gays contradiction

Originally posted by Wordshavepower

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho

Because it is our nature to value things that we strive for, not if it is simply handed to us. How much do you really learn if someone just gives you the answer.

Just because a teacher has a lesson planned, does that mean its not worth discussing?

I don't strive to believe in a god or the bible because there is, and never will be proof that he exists. I do not have faith, so need something more.

when the posters are talking here they put it like god knows all and has a plan for us, I would gladly discuss his plan with him but that would mean he would have to make his existence known to me. If he were to do this then i would have faith and would no longer need the said discusion.

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

The soldier story comes directly from the bible.

www.biblegateway.com...:5-13

"Scholars of both Scripture and Ancient History tell us that Roman Centurions, who were not permitted to marry while in service, regularly chose a favorite male slave to be their personal assistant and sexual servant. Such liaisons were common in the Greco-Roman world and it was not unusual for them to deepen into loving partnerships"

this is not a quote I made up, google it you get lots of sites relating to the fact that roman soldiers had servants that were sexual partners.

How can you say for certainty that jesus was not gay ? how do you know, wheres your source for this or is it the same as most things about the bible, you've got to have faith. I dont know if he was gay or not but never in the bible does it hint that he was interested in women.

And I wouldn't have a problem if he was.

the same as I wouldn't have a problem if he married mary magdalene and had children.

He was interested in everyone but temptation of the flesh either with gays or woman, undermines the entire reason he was here. Sex to someone like Jesus would be like having a pepsi, it would be mundane not to mention a sin unless he married, who? Yes Marry NOT Harry or Jerry

Look this is absurd, you are so far from the time I would require to explain this and I am so far away from believing you would actually be interested in what it is REALLY about that I will bid you a Good/night

reply to post by MAINTAL

I have never said that and I don't believe that anything is outside of their control. YOU believe that, I don't.

Yes and that's what I believe because all the gays explain that they cannot do anything about it even if they want to. That's the ultimate reality of homosexuality.

It's just as hard to force heterosexuality on gays as it is to force homosexuality on you. All the studies tell us that they are the way they are from birth and that they cannot change their sexuality.

The only reason you christians say otherwise is because it complicates doctrine and your ideal of morals.


But hey, prove me wrong. Do some studies that show orientations are changeable.

reply to post by MAINTAL


Look this is absurd, you are so far from the time I would require to explain this and I am so far away from believing you would actually be interested in what it is REALLY about that I will bid you a Good/night

you really should ask someone about themselves before making a remark like that. I have two roman catholic priests and a nun in my immediate family, i have spent 25 years discussing the bible god etc. with them, so please dont talk to me as if I'm one of the great unwashed, I will make the assumption that I have forgotten more of the bible than you've probably read.

so goodnight to you as well and please dont take anything personal, I accept that you have faith and respect you for that, please accept that i don't and respect me for that .

reply to post by Griff


I should hope that this is a compliment?

People rarely examine the reasons for their own feelings. Putting it all on "God said... Bible Said.... Jesus Said...." goes on forever and never, ever actually gives you an indication as to what people actually feel, only that they are very good at abdicating their own thoughts and responsibilities for their opinions.

Genetic or Interesting:

From the time of becoming adult I have found that the overwhelming majority of men from my mother's side of the family are either bisexual or gay. Most I never heard of or knew until chance internet encounter or people that I barely knew from my mom mentioning them a little. Since I live in the redneck south most aren't as you would call it "Out". So here's a rundown from her side of the family.

1 brother gay-married before but, now says he always had an interest in other men
1. me

4 Uncles
One claims interest in men and women now, was married before, lives in the house of now deceased man.

One never married, lives nearby, doesn't like women, has men visit all the time, makes hidden gay remarks

One never married, is seen with younger men all over town, doesn't like women other than friends, Has one son from an early encounter, son lived with him and describes him as being gay, claims he is too meticulous with cleanliness.

One lives in New York with a man for 30 years.

3 Cousins-all claim to be gay, never met them.
4 Cousins that have mistakenly contacted me on the internet for the
"down low" Married and looking for men on the internet.

2 3rd cousins that have contacted my brother and I both on the internet and wanted "down low" sex. One claims to be gay, the other says he is bisexual and don't tell anyone about him.


That is just the people in the family I do know about.




[edit on 14/11/08 by toochaos4u]

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by Griff

 

I should hope that this is a compliment?

Of course it is.

reply to post by toochaos4u


This brings us right back on topic, how unfair is it that your family members can spend 30 years and more with someone and not get the benefits of a married couple. It's different here in the UK now we have civil partnerships. but it was only a fe years ago that a friend who lived with his boyfriend for 25 years sadly passed away. what happened after the funeral? The man who died had a child very early on in his life, the house was owned by him and not in joint names, so not having made a will the house was given to the next of kin and his partner was promptly made homeless. How can this be right.

reply to post by TheColdDragon


Indeed. Asking oneself "Why do I believe what I believe?" can be a disturbing experience, and a life changing one at that.

When I asked myself that, the answer was "because I always have, I was indoctrinated as a child."

As they say, the truth will set you free.

And as noobfun says about denial of truth, "De nial is a dangerous thing to be in, there is crocs in there. ^_^"

[edit on 14/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Christians:

So we know Jesus Christ said nothing concerning homosexuality.

We do know he told people in Judea that a marriage between a man and a women was sealed in God's eyes, and divorce could only be warranted under the condition of adultery.

One could easily argue he was speaking to heterosexuals in Judea, so he kept it within a heterosexual context. Of course I know most Christians probably won't entertain this notion. So I will forgo that, and say this account is the only grounds one has for Jesus Christ being anti-homosexuality. It is a loose one.

We do now Jesus spoke emphatically about compassion for mankind. That the love of mankind was the same as the love of God. We know Jesus demonstrated for people continual acts of compassion and tolerance.

So before you decide to forgo the lessons and words of Christ, and grab a passage out of the Bible that is not the words of Christ, that is counter-intuitive to his teachings of compassion and love for all God's creatures, remember what he said (and what he didn't).

Also, concerning the Law:

"...a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified." (Galatians 2:16)

This tells me God does not justify a Christian because of his obedience to the Law.

This tells me the most important thing a Christian can do as a Christian is to follow a path of love and compassion and tolerance for all Mankind. Above all things. As this was Christs' primary teaching, and apparently God will justify you for doing that.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

If you want it ask and it will be given. I have my proof, I hope that you get yours

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho

Originally posted by Wordshavepower

Originally posted by whoswatchinwho

Because it is our nature to value things that we strive for, not if it is simply handed to us. How much do you really learn if someone just gives you the answer.

Just because a teacher has a lesson planned, does that mean its not worth discussing?

I don't strive to believe in a god or the bible because there is, and never will be proof that he exists. I do not have faith, so need something more.

when the posters are talking here they put it like god knows all and has a plan for us, I would gladly discuss his plan with him but that would mean he would have to make his existence known to me. If he were to do this then i would have faith and would no longer need the said discusion.

"If you want it ask and it will be given. I have my proof, I hope that you get yours"


This is my point exactly, you say you have your proof, but what is this proof? what you have is faith, these are very different things.

I have no proof he doesn't exist, God that is, and have not claimed to.

A christian, by the very definition of the word, should be able to accept everyone in the world whatever their differences, in your faith it is not up to you to judge someone because they are gay, that is your gods decision upon their death.

edit to add: I spent many years questioning my religion before deciding that i couldn't live what i considered a lie, so I did ask on numerous occasions.



[edit on 14/11/2008 by whoswatchinwho]

Originally posted by TheColdDragon
And here I have to wonder why people are so godawfully obsessed and upset over what other people do with their winkies and swatches.

Why is it anybody's business who does what to whose hole with their pleasure twig?

You can argue "God's against it" you can argue "It destroys the integrity of the family!" and all you are doing is arguing a justification for your position of being an invasive, persnickity hoe-bag who cannot SETTLE unless everyone believes butt-secks is da debble.

That says it all man!!

I mean REALLY, what are you all 14 or something???

Get a grip!!

I love love LOVE it when xtians say things like "don't try shovin yer lifestyle down my throat" Now that's a laugh!!! Inquisition, "witch burning", forced conversion of Native Americans ring any of your tinky winkies??

OK cool, get all your southern Baptist missionaries out of the Islamic countries.
Everybody hates the gays...it's not ok to hate just anybody these days but you can still hate the gays and make the stupid jokes and nobody will care.

The sheer ignorance on this thread is mind-boggling.

Urghh.

Here's when I will start taking the Christians who say homosexuality is a sin seriously:
When they stop singling out homosexuality from the Bible and start worrying about the other terrible sins as well!
There are thousands of anti-gay and traditional-marriage rallies all over from so-called Bible worshippers.
But has there ever been an "Anti-Goddammit" Rally?
Taking the Lord's name in vain is a sin, and arguably worse than homosexuality because not taking the Lord's name in vain is one of the Ten Commandments (along with not commiting adultery, not being jealous, and not working on Sundays)
As soon as the fundamentalists start putting the same emphasis on ALL sin and not just singling out homosexuals as some sort of 'terrible, unnatural' sin, I will perhaps start listening again.
I hear over and over how wrong it is to be gay.
And yet, I never hear from a fundamentalist Christian, "Sheesh, all those people who are saying Oh My God are probably going to go to Hell for their sins! Maybe we should start holding rallies to raise awareness about taking the Lord's name in vain. In fact, perhaps we should even try to make it illegal to say these words, because if people do these things without us stopping them, THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO HELL, and if is our God-given right to save the whole world from their sins!"
Give me a break.
None of these Christians care about saving people from sin itself.
They care about the nature of the sin of homosexuality - they think it's disgusting and that's all there is to.
They're taking the Bible and using it to fuel their own personal prejudice against gays, without stopping to think that maybe there are TEN THOUSAND MILLION OTHER SINS OUT THERE... and to God, all sin is an insult. Every single time His name is taken in vain is an insult and THAT is done WAY more often than gay sex.
So, before you shove it in my face how I should be somehow controlling my innate urges to be intimate with the same sex, and that somehow I should stay celibate or something because I want to kiss girls (how unfair) maybe you should start lecturing the world about how often they say Oh My God, about how high the divorce rate is, how high the murder rate is, how many people are working on the Sabbath.
By believing in the Bible, you don't pick and choose which sins to try to save people from and then ignore the other ones.

I haven't seen anyone bring up the greatest contradiction of all. That contradiction is priests with boys. They preach the bible and gods word every day and enjoy boys when they can.

Just like the world outside the priesthood, priests too can have homosexual as well as heterosexual tendencies.

but this thread is not about paedophilia, and not all priest like little boys. this issue is contentious enough please choose your words carefully.

just a polite note before your screamed at

edit: because im typing in the dark

[edit on 15/11/2008 by whoswatchinwho]

Originally posted by Velvet Death
I haven't seen anyone bring up the greatest contradiction of all. That contradiction is priests with boys. They preach the bible and gods word every day and enjoy boys when they can.

I am sure it's all sorts of contradiction.

That is prevalent within the Church Body. (boys and girls) And it should serve to remind Church goers of the fallible nature of the priests they ordain to act as intermediaries to God! My contention is a Christian does not need a Church or a Priest to be their middle man to God.

Anyways, this example is about pedophilia. I do not view that as an act of homosexuality so much as I just view it as pedophilia. If it were a male priest and a girl, I wouldn't think "oh look at that act of heterosexuality!" for instance.

[edit on 15-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Velvet Death


Yea, like whoswatchinwho said, it's not a can-o-worms worth opening.

reply to post by Deaf Alien

reply to post by MAINTAL
Not everything the Bible says, the Bible endorses.

by Deaf Alien
God specifically says to stone people to death for violating certain laws. Christians cannot pick and choose whatever that fits their agenda. If they pick one, they have to pick ALL or nothing at all.

After the fall of man God instituted the Old Testament plan, if you would Study the bible, and not take things out of context you would see how these things came about and work together. He gave the guideline of the best way to live back then, but as population grew things became more complicated. Sin became more prevalent and man petitioned God to define things more in depth, God never wanted divorce, among other things, but man did...so God provided law upon law to appease man, but in reality what God wanted to show us was that man could never live a sinless life based on the law. He was trying to show us that we could never walk the perfect walk that would redeem us back to the right relationship with him. He already had the plan in place for Jesus to be the ultimate fulfillment of the Law, but wanted to make sure we understood first why we couldn't do it ourselves.
When Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood for us, that was the ultimate sacrifice and payment for ALL our sins, IF we accept that and believe in him and what he did. You come to him as a child, REPENT sincerely and do the best you can to live a sinless life. However he knows we cant, but we do have choices and we make them everyday to sin or not. But if daily we confess to him and get back on the path, it is always forgiven. We are all born with a cross we must bear, and it is up to us to decide what path we want to take each and every day. But God is always faithful in his promise to forgive, if we repent. However, that being said, it does not give us license to sin, we all have things we must deny ourselves of everyday. And God still does know the best way for us to live, weather it be teachings from the Old or New Covenant. But the purpose of the Old was to show us that we couldn't do it on our own, we needed a Saviour. And that too is your choice to accept him or not....

reply to post by Servigistics


So if someone to the best of their ability lives a sinless life. As you are saying. But is not a Christian, at least insofar as this person does not read the Bible.

What becomes?