Warning: the ultimate ethics question to Obama supporters

Here's the ultimate one for obama supporters:

Let's assume you LOVE Obama, you are one of those who feel he is really the change we need, he is going to bail America out of the mess that George W. and all the republicans have got us into (yes Im being biased...that's kinda the point) in short...OBAMA CAN DO NO WRONG.
There is only one problem. Turns out his birth certificate IS false...he is not really eligable for the presidency...even though he is the PERFECT man for the job, it just cannot be...but wait, you happen to posses skills to forge a document like this and have been asked to do so by his camp:
What do you do?
Here's what i would do: if he was really the right man, and would fulfill all his promises...AND it would never be caught (in other words, it would not inherently open the door for others not natural born to ever serve, it was strictly a one time deal) then I would. if however it would make it so this law would change and others would have no problem in the future getting in no matter where they are born,then a resounding no.
I KNOW you fellow members have a good one for this. Given the popularity of this topic of his birth this REALLY ought to stir things up....
Thoughts? please be honest.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Enigma Publius]

I would get as much evidence against him and his cohorts from are little meeting, mail, emails, tap recordings (If all possible). I would contact Phil Berg or an official at the White House etc etc and watch Obama crash and burn like he should in real life for this.


or are they given me millions and giving me a high level cabinet job hahahaahah



PRODUCE PAPERS OR GET IMPEACHED OBAMA

Originally posted by DigitalMilita
I would get as much evidence against him and his cohorts from are little meeting, mail, emails, tap recordings (If all possible). I would contact Phil Berg or an official at the White House etc etc and watch Obama crash and burn like he should in real life for this.


or are they given me millions and giving me a high level cabinet job hahahaahah



PRODUCE PAPERS OR GET IMPEACHED OBAMA

I would see if Obama has any decent plans to raise the level of education in this coutry first. I would see just what he plans to do about the Obama haters out there that have no grasp of the English language, grammar, spelling, proper word usage, etc. If he has a better plan than anyone else to prevent me from having to read the ignorant rantings of 3rd grade level writing as shown above, I would help cover that stuff up right quickly!

reply to post by DigitalMilita


Edited for stupidity.

One thing I just thought of.
(Conspiracy territory ahoy)
If he is not born in the U.S., then that could be what the higher ups who control the money have over the guy. Because from what I read, they get people they know they wil be able to control through means of extortion. And what would give them more control than being able to get him impeached.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by djpaec]

My answer would be NO. If he has to resort to nefarious acts such as lying and forgery to get into office. No matter how much talent he has, or how much talent you see in him, or how much hope you have for him , it would be lost in the act of 'helping' him. Anything he stood for would be negated by the act of helping him or anyone else within his campaign committee get into office under falsified documents.

reply to post by Forest


Yeah, besides, if he gets into office by being dishonest then what good are any of his promises or anything he said at all?

if however it would make it so this law would change and others would have no problem in the future getting in no matter where they are born,then a resounding no.

Then I think it should be done. (not by me, I would hire and train my fall guy)

I would love for that requirement to be abolished.

If we truly have a democratic vote (do we?) then any issue with said POTUS candidate's origin of birth would reflect in the vote anyways.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I voted for Obama. I think he will make an absolutely excellent president and will undo much of the wrongs perpetrated by the Bush administration. This being said, if he is constitutionally ineligible to hold the office of POS, I would out him and thus prevent him from being president. Anyone who thinks differently is not a true liberal and is a hypocrite.

If he has a better plan than anyone else to prevent me from having to read the ignorant rantings of 3rd grade level writing as shown above, I would help cover that stuff up right quickly!

ahh, c'mon. Take it easy, if the worth of my ideas was soley on my grammer, They would make me wear a helmet everyday.

Then I think I would be inclined to help him out.

thanks for hte honesty, it does surprise me that i would to after I thought about it.

If he is not born in the U.S., then that could be what the higher ups who control the money have over the guy. Because from what I read, they get people they know they wil be able to control through means of extortion. And what would give them more control than being able to get him impeached.

very good point. Down the rabbit hole we go! Since he is not in the lobbiests pockets as deep as others, this COULD explain how they would control him, very plausible.

Anything he stood for would be negated by the act of helping him or anyone else within his campaign committee get into office under falsified documents.

i admire your steady morales. Says a lot about character i think, but I would still do it. When I take in effect the fact that every candidate has done some pretty sketchy things in office (all of them) then I would just have to help him out if not being natural born was his ONLY flaw. Remember, for purposes of the question, we are assuming that he will be EVERYTHING he promised. Not a likely scenario of course, but for purposes of this exercise we are to believe he will "change" the world for the better.

Yeah, besides, if he gets into office by being dishonest then what good are any of his promises or anything he said at all?

But for arguments sake he WILL stabalize the economy, make politics much more bi-partisan, revive the healthcare system, further education, SAVE millions of lives, etc. You really would not help IF the birth certificate was his one and ONLY flaw? When would we EVER get the chance to elect someone so pure ever again? I still say it would be irresponsible to let him go down for that when 99.99% of everything he was going to do in office was going to be honest, and helpful for America.
And remember, no one finds out, so all of those promises are still just as good to 35 million Americans who do not know about the forged document. You would be the only one besides him and maybe a few staff members who know, thus, all prior "wholesome points" he had scored would not suffer, people would never doubt him.

Then I think it should be done. (not by me, I would hire and train my fall guy)

so you mean you would WANT your fall guy to get caught right? After the fact I assume. Nothing wrong with changing the scenario that way a little, i didn't expect a comment like this, you definently think ouside the box. You mean you would help him to get in, and have your fall guy get caught after the fact, so that the law would seem silly to everyone and get done away with right? Hmmmm. Interesting, that was the one reason where i would NOT do it. thanks for reply.

I would out him and thus prevent him from being president. Anyone who thinks differently is not a true liberal and is a hypocrite.

well this is the only comment that i totally disagree with. How could you not at least sympathize or understand someone else doing this, it is the only chance you will ever have to elect a man into office who will do everything he has promised, that has never been done, how does doing something that IS going to benefit your country so greatly earn you the label of a hypocrite? Inviting you to further explain.

As to the exercise you posted, Yes, I would do it. If Obama would keep all his promises and do all the wonderful things he has said, it would be the right think for the country. Remember, if Obama for some reason would not be able to be the president there would be all kinds of riots and upheaval in the US How would that be good for the country?

Yes, I think I would help him.

Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Enigma Publius


I think I'll have to retract my answers from before. The more and more I think about how they pulled the wool over our eyes, showed us the bailout, repealed part of the tax code, business' take advantage of this repealed tax code with our money. Now Paulson tells us yeah we actually never intended to do what we said with that money. Classic Shock Doctrine.

Now Rahm Emmanuel is talking abuot forcing everyone 18-25 to go to bootcamp so we can be prepared for a bilogical attack. And have a civilian defense force against one.

This is not the country I thought I grew up in. Being born in the fabled year of 1984 sucks.

We can't make exceptions for ANYONE, if we continually change laws and rules at will just because they don't match up to something we want then every single rule, right and law we have is written in pudding.

I'm so sick of the government overstepping it's boundaries and infringing upon and changing the constitution and laws just to suit their needs at present. When we founded this country we set up certain guidelines to ensure the continuance of the nation we created. We can't just throw things out right and left because we feel like it.

As it stands, he would be ineligible.

I hope they change the rules to allow him into power...mainly because I want to see Schwarzenegger in 2012.

Everyone that said "yes, I would do it" should be absolutely ashamed of themselves..regardless of his/her reasoning. An attempt to subvert the laws of the land are...get this...illegal. To those that say, "well, as long as it doesn't open the floodgates of the presidency to all potential candidates who do not meet the required criteria", how would your action not set the precedent? What would prevent all those that would otherwise be ineligible from contracting you to make their 'official' documents? To those that would do it "to avoid potential riots", the only rioting that should take place should occur on Obama's doorstep IF this hypothetical were the case; we can deal with riots...we have jails, we have police, we can protect ourselves. How long would the riots last if they were dealt with quickly and severely? My guess is not too long. I would NEVER do it, even if I was a huge fan of Obama and all of the other conditions noted in the OP were true. My integrity is worth much more than anything they could offer...I will keep it.
Off topic, now that the election is over (my horse was out of the race before it even started...not McCain), I hope Obama can do some good. I hope he does not do as Bush has done, looking only to the electoral count, and realizes that half of all voters did not want him as president...he will represent them too, his policies need to show this.
A little jab...ha ha, you posted about poor grammar and spelling, yet you said "coutry" Maybe you were looking for the word "country"?

Absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I willingly assist a politician in lying and breaking the laws of our country. He could be the next Mother Theresa and it would still be wrong to help him lie just to keep him in office. We have eligibility requirements for a reason. We have a Constitution for a reason. Make one exception and it is just the top of the slippery slope.

Helping anyone to usurp the Constitution of the United States of America, for any reason, is treasonous.

I would NOT do this, as it would put me in the same league as these intermittent penis swallowers.

By useing this reasoning, if the majority thought Chairman Mao or Kin Jung ill, or even Putin was better for our POTUS, we should change the Constitution to let him be elected. Absolute idiocy! No non-natural born citizen other than exceptions that are already in place should hold that office!
Zindo
PS its one of the only things our government actualy thought through and did corectly!


[edit on 11/13/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Here's a question...or two.

What level of evidence is required for posts like this to stop popping up...?

How many American courts have to say, "Barack Obama is a legal American citizen", for those trying, desperately, to prove he's not a citizen to accept the courts ruling and get over it? What level does it have to go to? State? No, that's not good enough. Federal? Nope, not there... Supreme? If I like their answer, maybe.

Even then, if the Supreme court says, "everything checks out"...how many people will simply think that its a governmental cover-up and not accept it?

Even then, what will be the next issue that will be used to try to illegitimize his presidency? Affiliations? Religion? Race?

I'll tell you what...in 2000, a lot of Democratic supporters were very upset by the Bush election...but at least we had a legitimate, solid reason to be upset...he lost the popular vote by half a million votes but won Florida, the state that just happened to have both voting irregularities AND his brother as the governor, by about 500, if my memory serves me correctly...and the country has suffered horrendously for it...

But to answer the original question...if he is not a legal American citizen, with all the necessary criteria fulfilled to be president, he shouldn't be president because that is the letter of the law, and I say that as a supporter of Obama...furthermore, as we have seen by an Administration that does not give a damn about the law, Bush's, ignoring it only breeds chaos, distrust and destruction...however, to those that think that he, or the Democratic party, are stupid enough to elect him as their presidential candidate, especially for such a crucial election, without knowing full well that his presidency would be fully legal...what radio frequency are they tuned into?

...but that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Enigma Publius
What do you do?

What an odd question! A good one, though.

As most know, I am an avid Obama supporter. I LOVE him! But I don't have the opinion that he "can do no wrong". Just to be clear on that.

What would I do? There is NO WAY I would forge him a certificate. I would, in fact, report it to the highest authority. Why?

1. It would be dishonest and I'm very uncomfortable with that.
2. The fact that he "faked" his way so far would mean that he's not the man I thought he was.
3. I strongly believe in the Constitution and Obama would not be eligible for the presidency, therefore would NOT be the perfect man for the job.

I have no illusions about Barack Obama... he is a politican and a smart one at that... but still a politican.

Would I forge a birth certificate for him?

No absolutely not... I am not so devoted to anyone political that I would put my life and/or freedom on the line for.

Would I report him?

That's a difficult question since on principle I despise the whole notion of everybody watching (and reporting on) everybody else. That's what the dictatorships do to their citizens... make them into squeals on everybody else.

Since my answer to that actually has nothing to do with the man in question as opposed to my general attitude on the subject, I would say probably not... unless I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt not doing so would cause irrepairable harm to the nation.

This is all really moot since regardless of where Mr. Obama was born... his mother was indisputably an American citizen therefore he is as well.