2 Dutch men guilty of injecting 14 with HIV

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Here is at least one article explainig some of this insanity :

laatst gewijzigd: 17-06-2003 09:31
Bewust onveilige seks

Het is de moderne versie van Russisch roulette: de barebacking-party. Een sexfeest, waar zowel seropositieve en seronegatieve homomannen onveilige sex met elkaar hebben.

Met als doel bewust het HIV-virus te verspreiden. Het is haast niet voor te stellen en naar de redenen waarom mannen zich bewust laten besmetten kan ook alleen maar worden gegist. Feit is dat de feestjes niet alleen een Amerikaans fenomeen zijn, ook hier in Nederland worden ze - nog op kleine schaal weliswaar - georganiseerd.


translation:

deliberate unsafe sex

it's the modern version of russin roulette : the barebacking party.
A sexparty, where seropositive and seronegative gay men can have unsafe sex.
The purpose is to spread the HIV virus. You almost can't imagine why men would voluntarilywant to get infected as for the reason we can only guess.
Fact is that these parties are not just an American phenomenon but are also being held here in Holland. Be it on a small scale but organised.



This was already in 2003

[edit on 13/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by malignant_tumor

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
Is having unprotected sex with a complete stranger not the same as consending to being infected with HIV??? wether you do or don't know they have or haven't got HIV.....

No, it's not the same. It's just ignorance of decision making. Or just lack of the education and knowledge of how to contract the disease. Doesn't mean that they said it was ok.

Just because a child doesn't know what would happen if they stuck a butter knife in a electrical socket...

...Does that mean that the child deserves or conscented to being electricuded?

You keep trying to make a point but.......(here we go again)

I'm talking about western civilazation, were this diseas is know for years especially amongst gay men. And i'm talking about grow men.....

what are you saying. Adult western european men have no idea what HIV is....

Are you serious..i know there are parts of the world where this diseas doesn't have a name yet but for crying out loud.....think man!!!!

For reference : Holland is next to Germany across the channel from England and right in the hart of Europe.....

This is really a horrible thing. I cannot believe people on here are trying to mitigate the magnitude of the crime because they were at a sex party. The story did not present that the people injected WANTED HIV and willingly got injected. If they were having unprotected sex, that is their stupid choice. They had a probablity ratio to getting an STD and not getting one, but for people to inject someone with HIV is just sickening. I would never attend a sex party but I think if you do, you aren;t a bad person and you certainly don't deserve a life threatening disease.

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


Which brings us back to my original question. Why wouldn't they be tried for attempted murder?

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
This is really a horrible thing. I cannot believe people on here are trying to mitigate the magnitude of the crime because they were at a sex party. The story did not present that the people injected WANTED HIV and willingly got injected. If they were having unprotected sex, that is their stupid choice. They had a probablity ratio to getting an STD and not getting one, but for people to inject someone with HIV is just sickening. I would never attend a sex party but I think if you do, you aren;t a bad person and you certainly don't deserve a life threatening disease.

Here we go again....

-nobody is saying these people deserve what happend to them.

-nobody is mitigating the magnitude of the crime.

-and attending a sexparty bad...nope nobody said that either.

(did you read ALL the posts or just the last few?)

What is the point here is that if people are deliberately putting themselfs at high risk they should be aware of the consequences.

Dutch article :

deliberate unsafe sex

it's the modern version of russin roulette : the barebacking party.
A sexparty, where seropositive and seronegative gay men can have unsafe sex.
The purpose is to spread the HIV virus. You almost can't imagine why men would voluntarilywant to get infected as for the reason we can only guess.
Fact is that these parties are not just an American phenomenon but are also being held here in Holland. Be it on a small scale but organised.

This is the kind of "party" we are talking about...!!!

That is not to say that what these perpetrators did is in anyway less evil but more just more of a bad thing.......

Originally posted by malignant_tumor
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

Which brings us back to my original question. Why wouldn't they be tried for attempted murder?

Why....b'cause these perpetrators stuck needles up people's *** with HIV positive blood. But to proof murder you'de have to proof the people who got injected weren't seropositive prior to the incident.

14 x acquitted

On top of that 'cause it is somewhat treatable they could not be tried for murder but serious assault.

That doesn't change the fact that these men knew damn well what kind of "party" they were visiting and what risks they were taking.......

I feel an other +100 posts coming......

Bring it on

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

(did you read ALL the posts or just the last few?)

What is the point here is that if people are deliberately putting themselfs at high risk they should be aware of the consequences.

I did read all the posts. And what I wrote addressed that. Just because they are at this sex party doesn't mean they chose to get injected. I understand what you are saying, but if these men fingered the men with sperm on their fingers when the guys were conscious, it would be a different story. Injecting someone with a needle is different.

I did read all the posts. And what I wrote addressed that. Just because they are at this sex party doesn't mean they chose to get injected. I understand what you are saying, but if these men fingered the men with sperm on their fingers when the guys were conscious, it would be a different story. Injecting someone with a needle is different.

It totally agree with you that these guys are very very very sick for injecting people with HIV. But it is not so much the acts that took place there it is more the nature of these "parties".

Let me explain : Holland is a somewhat Sodom and Gomorrah of the present day rolled into one (i'm an atheist don't worry). On top of that healthcare in Holland guarantees every treatment (incl. HIV antiretroviral drugs) for free. I guess that should explain in some weird way why people are organizing parties where the goal is to infect each other with HIV.

This is a known fact and police have been warning the general public about this for years. (here in Holland)

My intire point is that the people who attend these parties are not looking any further that there own self interest and don't care about HIV being a global problem. And that not all people have their medicine paid for and that there are actually people dying from this decease every day.

So in my opinion when attending these kind of parties you may become a victim but you are always guilty.

( i must emphasize that the term "party" is really wrong. When speaking of a party you tend to think you'll have a nice time ,meet new people or whatever but in this case it really isn't a party.)

I totally agree with operation mindcrime. Must be because i'm Dutch too

Futhermore. HIV is (over here) considered to be a chronical disease, not a life threatening one anymore. Hardly anyone (there must be exceptions) dies because of it nowadays (again in holland).

And those parties. Just being at such a party is like giving consent to any kind of sex. And "rape" isn't even that exotic i'm afraid. The gay community is well aware of the high rates of HIV, expecially at those parties. They are well aware there is unprotected sex at those parties. Attending such a party is nearly like:"ok...let's have some HIV myself, so i don't need to worry about it anymore". Which is probably the main reason gay men voluntary inject themselves with HIV.

I don't know the exact nature of this specific party, but if there were a kinky touch to this, the story is even more clearer

Well if you're going to sex parties, you clearly don't care about your well being to begin with. So if you get HIV, that's already a risk you were willing to take. So if you want to sleep around, you deserve to get hiv.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

So in my opinion when attending these kind of parties you may become a victim but you are always guilty.

Very interesting. This is one of the reasons why I do not support universal healthcare in the U.S. (because of moochers!) I require more details, such as if these people were having unprotected sex to agree with you if they are guilty. I do not think that if you go to sex parties or baths, that you are guilty and deserve whatever happens to you there if you take proper precautions. Some people like indiscriminate sex and they don't want an STD. If this party was not some nasty bad place and the victims were using protections (which they probably weren't) I do not think they are guilty of anything.

Originally posted by malignant_tumor
What if this happened in th U.S.A.?

What would happen in a world where healthcare isn't paid for?

It does. Maybe not in this extreme form, but there are bug chasers out there everywhere.

I can't understand why someone would actually want this disease.

[edit on 11/13/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
These people who willing take risks should realise that they are putting other people at danger.

Actually, my belief is that those who willingly take risks should realise that they are putting themselves at danger. But, I thought that was what you were trying to say?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by malignant_tumor
What if this happened in th U.S.A.?

What would happen in a world where healthcare isn't paid for?

It does. Maybe not in this extreme form, but their are bug chasers out there everywhere.

I can't understand why someone would actually want this disease.

I meant as far as their laws not charging these men with attempted murder.

Would it be different in the USA where for some, they can barely get health coverage or not at all.

reply to post by operation mindcrime



Dude...


You keep talking about unprotected sex...

these men were assaulted with needles!!!!

These men might have been stupid, but they were not looking to be stabbed!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Exactly! If they wanted HIV, they would have let their partner give it to them.

It would be a crazy scenario if someone wanted to be injected with HIV while they were passed out after having sex with other men and doing a lot of drugs.

But then again, I'm sure there are some people out there.

Again, nobody is saying these people deserved what happend to them and if you ask me about the scenario here is what happend...

Peter M, main suspect, i a very disturbed man with a lot of hate toward healty homosexual people. He himself got infected with HIV after having unprotected sex and this made him so angry that he took upon him self to organise "bareback" parties were he would inject people with HIV in order to get "revence" for what had happend to him.

So we can be clear on the fact that this is very disturbed man and should be locked up but that doesn't change the fact that he used a concerning trend in the gay scene called a "bareback" party to do this.
Injecting people is just and extra weird thing added to a situation that was weird in itself.

Again the victims did not DESERVE to get injected but wouldn't you say that it is strange to go to a party were the goal ,set in advance , is to have sex with seropositive and seronegative men just for kicks (As a sort of modern day russian roulette) in order to spread the diseas....

Attending a sexparty is not the same as concending to have HIV but attending a "bareback" party is..!!
Or would you say that people who play a game of rusian roulette don't deserve to get shot in the head...as long as they are pulling the trigger themselfs they should be held accountable for. In this case the big difference is that you have people playing russian roulette but somebody else is holding the gun

[edit on 13/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


After reading this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you, operation mindcrime, are an expert at bareback parties.

You seem to know an exuberant amount of information about these and the goings on there.

Why do you, and how have you educated yourself so highly in this topic?


[edit on 13-11-2008 by malignant_tumor]

Originally posted by malignant_tumor
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

After reading this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that you, operation mindcrime, are an expert at bareback parties.

You seem to know an exuberant amount of information about these and the goings on there.

Why do you, and how have you educated yourself so highly in this topic?


[edit on 13-11-2008 by malignant_tumor]

Glad you asked.......

It is not that i'm an expert souly on "bareback" parties but more on concerning developments in our society. I could tell you a think or two about drugs/alcohol use and violence within homes (hubants beating up wives and vice versa)

I, myself ,have a monogamous relation for 16 years and am not concerned with HIV personally maybe that's why i find it so interesing that there are people out there who ,out of free will , choose to life this way.

If have been active in social work for some years and you come across a lot of people with a lot of twisted thoughts on there mind. What i am trying to find out is why the number of people who take excess risk out of free will is growing.Is it society..some birth defect.....something in the water....
I don't know it is just stricking me as weird the numbers seems to be growing.
So in order to find this out you have to know everything about a subject to know what is going on.....research.

It could all be some sort of "conditioning" by another power that we have know idea about.

Think about this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...'