Follow-up story: Mombasa Imam who confirmed Obama's birth place arrives in the UK

Originally posted by frayed1


And you think the CIA would not be able to get access to the original without having to wait for the release of it by the Obama campaign ?? It is still in the hands of the Hawaii dept of records, after all....walk in, flash a badge, get to look at anything they wanted.

Whether they did see it or not, they are compelled to keep it to themselves because saying they saw it would implicate them in a lawsuit people would ask why the intrusion to privacy without express written authorization etc. The CIA may very well know but it isn't something they can tell us eitherway without getting themselves in a stew

Is there new information out or not? I can't find anything.
It seems the API has been shut down or is it my computer?
I am trying to find something on whether or not someone has actually gotten a look at these documents and whether or not they are authentic.
Just a little sick of fake ones. Ya know what I mean.
What have you heard?

reply to post by MAINTAL

All I see from you is anti-Obama or anti-liberal posts. Do you have anything positive to say about Democrats or Obama?

Originally posted by MAINTAL

Originally posted by frayed1


And you think the CIA would not be able to get access to the original without having to wait for the release of it by the Obama campaign ?? It is still in the hands of the Hawaii dept of records, after all....walk in, flash a badge, get to look at anything they wanted.

Whether they did see it or not, they are compelled to keep it to themselves because saying they saw it would implicate them in a lawsuit people would ask why the intrusion to privacy without express written authorization etc. The CIA may very well know but it isn't something they can tell us eitherway without getting themselves in a stew

If they tell the president ( and surely under the auspices, nay requirements of 'national security' they would tell him ), he could then 'de-classify' the information and tell anyone he wants.....He has that power, does he not??

I thought that 'intrusion into privacy ' excuse had been taken care of in cases of national security....

Something this big would hardly be withheld because of some tenuous threat of a 'lawsuit', surely??

I have to have the feeling that if this is true, it has been allowed to happen, and there has been knowledge of it within the present administration and it has been some part of a greater plan......

[edit on 16-11-2008 by frayed1]

I just want to ask a few questions on this subject.

Since everybody is only referring to his birth cert....
Shouldn't there be hospital records of his mothers admittance to the hospital. And what about records of blood tests, etc.?
Also what about attending doctors records?
I would think some of the people that were in the delivery room would have come forward by now but I have not heard of anyone doing this.
This really makes me question the validity of his Hawaiian birth.

I heard (rumor?) that his mother was denied boarding the plane to Hawaii because she was too close to term. If true, was he born secretly in Kenya and then flown to Hawaii and birth cert. filed at that time?
Could explain why no other records have been brought forth.
Curiously odd don't you think.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Muundoggie]

reply to post by Muundoggie


Yes there should be records from the hospital, but he would have to sign a release for those to be given to anyone besides himself. As for the nurses or doctors who might have been there at the time, the likelihood of any of them remembering one baby out of thousands is very small. And even if they did remember him, any who are still working as doctors or nurses could not reveal anything about him either without risking their jobs.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
I just want to ask a few questions on this subject.

Since everybody is only referring to his birth cert....
Shouldn't there be hospital records of his mothers admittance to the hospital. And what about records of blood tests, etc.?
Also what about attending doctors records?
I would think some of the people that were in the delivery room would have come forward by now but I have not heard of anyone doing this.
This really makes me question the validity of his Hawaiian birth.

I heard (rumor?) that his mother was denied boarding the plane to Hawaii because she was too close to term. If true, was he born secretly in Kenya and then flown to Hawaii and birth cert. filed at that time?
Could explain why no other records have been brought forth.
Curiously odd don't you think.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Muundoggie]

The only thing to keep in mind is that this is being perpetrated by those who have the single motivation of discrediting him.

It's nothing more than the "He's a Mulsim!" thread.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


But not everyone who wants the question answered once and for all are people who didn't vote for him. There are many who did vote for him and still want to see this resolved one way or the other. Kinda shoots the "they're just haters" theory out of the water, doesn't it?

reply to post by Jenna


I would say more uninformed than anything. Here, the people who claimed Obama wasn't born there acted as though they were excited over the Hawaiian State Department's investigation.

Obama Hawaii investigation moves into high gear with lawsuit seeking release of birth records


State declares Obama birth certificate genuine

Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

So, they hold his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate. Would this not be the original "Vaulted Birth Certificate" you all seek? They did a separate investigation, and for some reason that isn't enough?

There has been an investigation by Hawaii that has verified his status, and there has been independent investigations that verify his COLB is valid.

What else could you possibly want? Every lawsuit has been thrown out of court to date.

Why is there ONE reason to doubt his innocence?

reply to post by Irish M1ck


I won't go back through and post all the links again that others have already posted, don't want to be redundant. Basically though, there was a law at the time of his birth that said one parent had to be a resident for 5 years after the age of 14, and 5 before I believe, to pass on citizenship, which being 18 his mother couldn't do. Then there's the issue of Hawaii allowing a birth to be registered within a year of a child's birth if the parents lived in Hawaii for a year before the child's birth. Then there's the paperwork showing him as having Indonesian citizenship and claims that Indonesia didn't permit dual-citizenship at the time. And the list goes on.

There is more than one factor being questioned, but I think some see the vault copy of his birth certificate as being a major factor since it wasn't a birth certificate that was released but a certificate of live birth. Not to mention his vault copy was not verified as saying anything specific, only that they hold it. Assuming it says he was born in Hawaii does not make it so. Personally, I think he most likely was born in Hawaii. However, the issues surrounding his eligibility should be answered one way or the other in such a way that they cannot be questioned any more. And really, whatever anyone on this forum thinks about it doesn't really matter legally, only the courts decision does. There are numerous lawsuits out there over his eligibility, so this is not something that someone here just pulled out of thin air to discredit him, nor should it be treated as such. The questions are valid, and many people both in and out of the forum want answers. And in all reality, they should get them.

Obama spoke numerous times before the election about transparency, but all we have seen from him regarding this issue is stall-tactics and he's been doing whatever he can to prevent from just answering the questions posed in the lawsuits. An innocent person would not waste hundreds of thousands of dollars on lawsuits and lawyers instead of just answering one lawsuit and providing any information necessary to prove the claims unfounded. The longer he stalls, the guiltier he looks in many people's eyes. That is not a good way to start out his presidency.

reply to post by Jenna


So, basically, you don't believe the State Department is telling the truth, or you don't believe they have enough sense to know their own laws?

That's all you need to say.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Ah, but I didn't say that did I. If my post implied that, I apologize as that was not what I meant. Merely pointing out that many still question it. And that does not really take anything away from the other questions surrounding his presidency.

edit to remove an extra word.

edit again to add: Must not have really read my post there Irish. The very next line after the one you picked out clearly states that I think he most likely was born in Hawaii.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jenna]

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jenna]

reply to post by Jenna


All I am trying to do is make the point that people keep changing their arguments over Obama every time one of their "complaints" is satisfied. The big argument was, "OMG Obama hasn't released them to be viewed by anyone so he must be guilty!"

Well, an investigation was done by the state and has verified the very same birth certificate that everyone thought was in question. But that's not enough for people, which can only mean one thing:

They think either the state is lying or that the state is too dumb to know the truth. So, that must be the new argument.

Maybe that's not you. Maybe you don't believe that. Whatever. However, there are multiple people on this thread who do continue to demand that he "release his vaulted BC", ignoring how ridiculous of a demand it is.

The vaulted BC has been proven to exist in Hawaiian archives, and it is proven to be valid.

Can we end the whole "Obama wasn't born in Hawaii" thing now, or is there a new demand?

reply to post by Irish M1ck


The only demand I have had since this whole thing started was that it actually be put completely to rest. That would include everything listed in the lawsuits, since they all essentially make the same claims just in different states by different people, not just one part. And I have said more than once I think he probably was born in Hawaii, but that doesn't make the lawsuits go away. It's not my call. I'm not anybody important enough to make the lawsuits go away. He can easily by just allowing one case to go through the discovery process. One case and it would set a precedent if he is in fact innocent of all the claims, and then the rest of the cases would be thrown out due to the question already being answered.

I would offer one alternative to your theory about those who still want the vault copy released or shown to a judge as the case may be, though. Perhaps they simply want the vault copy shown to the judge or released because of the Hawaiian law about being able to register a foreign birth there within a year of the child's birth. And as many here have pointed out, even being born in Hawaii wouldn't mean that the rest of the claims regarding his citizenship are false. It wouldn't prove them true, but it wouldn't prove them false either.

I don't think the claims have really changed, it's just a different claim has been focused on at different times.

reply to post by Jemison

Did whites riot when O.J. Simpson was found not guilty within a few hours, after a nine month trial. This, with nine blacks on the jury for a man accused of killing two white people.
Do we need a Constitutional amendment to allow an alien to be president, to prevent rioting? Obama is the most leftist radical that could have been chosen. Is it that black people are assumed to want black to be president, even though he is going to ruin us?

reply to post by Jenna


I have to disagree. Here is my point:

1) "Obama wasn't born in America".

Obama released COLB.

2) The COLB is fake.

Disproved by independent sources who verified it's legitimacy.

3) Well even if it looks real, it could be fake, the vaulted BC must be released!

The vaulted BC was verified by an investigation done by the state.


The last one seems to just be ignored or misinterpreted more than anything else. But the point is, as the evidence they wanted was released, it didn't change anything for them.

Sure, some of the more fringe conspiracy theorists have presented other ideas. Some say he lost his citizenship when he left the country, however, none of them have provided any documentation that he's ever lost it.

So, that's out the window on lack of proof. How can anyone accuse him of losing citizenship when there is not one U.S. document saying so? How could he lose his citizenship with the U.S. without any documentation?

Why is this still being discussed?


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

Wouldn't be the first time somebody running for President was challenged over his birth Certificate.

In 1968, the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for President of the United States. The then SOS, Mr. Frank Jordan, found that, according to Mr. Cleaver's birth certificate, he was only 34 years old, one year shy of the 35 years of age needed to be on the ballot as a candidate for President. Using his administrative powers, Mr. Jordan removed Mr. Cleaver from the ballot. Mr. Cleaver unsuccessfully challenged this decision to the Supreme Court of the State of California, and, later, to the Supreme Court of the United States."

Similarly, in 1984, the Peace and Freedom Party candidate Larry Holmes was removed from the ballot.

source

Eldridge Cleaver was a black man too. Talk about a coincident.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


There were other theories regarding his citizenship, as evidenced by the lawsuits. What you are referring to, in my opinion anyway, was the result of only one claim being focused on instead of all of them at once. And there have been documents, though I can't for the life of me remember which thread they are in, that showed his citizenship as being Indonesian. The topic is still being discussed because the lawsuits are still waiting to be decided on. Either they will make it to court or they won't. Either appeals will be heard or they won't. Until the courts make final decisions regarding all the lawsuits against him, discussion will likely continue.

Edit to add: There isn't much documentation on his life to be found anywhere, whether to prove or disprove his citizenship. That happens when you have files sealed.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jenna]

Why in the world doesn't Obama just deal with this and put it to rest? It wouldn't take that much of his time and the little that it did take it would be well worth it.

I honestly didn't think this topic had legs prior to the election but the fact that the 'evidence' people are asking for has still not been released and there are new lawsuits popping up regarding this issue and yet Obama is choosing to do nothing makes me believe that something is up.

The lawsuits are costing the taxpayers a fortune so the least he can do is provide the information and stop wasting our money!

Jemison

Originally posted by Jemison
Why in the world doesn't Obama just deal with this and put it to rest? It wouldn't take that much of his time and the little that it did take it would be well worth it.

I honestly didn't think this topic had legs prior to the election but the fact that the 'evidence' people are asking for has still not been released and there are new lawsuits popping up regarding this issue and yet Obama is choosing to do nothing makes me believe that something is up.

The lawsuits are costing the taxpayers a fortune so the least he can do is provide the information and stop wasting our money!

Jemison

What are you talkig about? Are you expecting him to come to your house and present it to you? Aside from his BC, proof of birth, and certificate of live birth, what else would you like him to show?