Should we divide the USA in to two new countries

together we stand, divided we fall. someone didnt pay attention in social studies!!

(I didnt pay attention in "board posting" class apparently)

[edit on 11-11-2008 by drsmooth23]

together we stand, divided we fall! Someone didn't listen in social studies. Really, though, i think the states do a good job of harboring like minded individuals. like, some people go to Cali for medicine, some to nevada to gamble and, ahlem, do another type of gambling. no reason we should divide any more, because then most everyone would move somewhere to get away from their neighbors if they have really conflicting views.

No good could ever come from that

Originally posted by SailorinAZ
When I spoke of a conservative country I was referring to true conservatism. Constitution Party/Ron Paul type ideologies.

Would the government dictate who we could marry and who could adopt children based on their sexuality? Would they dictate whether or not women could choose to have an abortion? Would personal recreational drug use be illegal? Because as far as I know, Ron Paul is anti-gay and anti-abortion.

(Just trying to decide where I'd want to live.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other. - Abraham Lincoln

Can America stand divided between liberal and conservative? It may be melodramatic to say, but doesn't the gulf between true conservatives (ie libertarians) and the liberal/neo-cons seem to be at the greatest point in history?

Until and unless the constitution is followed to the letter, the great house will stand divided. There will be no lasting, coherent solution. America is at an impermanent junction, where 51% seem to control and push their view upon 49%. Until there is a return to constitutionality, there can be no rule by overwhelming consensus.

Reagan came the closest to this, but still he didnt have overwhelming support in the general election from a popular vote PoV.

Didn't America try that experiment before?

The outcome wasn't a very civil split either. 600,000 dead after the capitulation of the Confederate States of America.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Would the government dictate who we could marry and who could adopt children based on their sexuality? Would they dictate whether or not women could choose to have an abortion? Would personal recreational drug use be illegal? Because as far as I know, Ron Paul is anti-gay and anti-abortion.

(Just trying to decide where I'd want to live.

What? Paul has said over and over it's up to the states as far as abortion goes and I dont think I've heard him say anything anti-gay. Since when has leaving an issue up to a state been anti?

Besides, whichever area is Libertarian nobody will say boo about anything you do. You could marry 50 stoned transsexuals and abort until your uterus is scarred and baron for all I care. Just return the favor and dont come bitching if I refuse taxation and horde guns.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
You could marry 50 stoned transsexuals and abort until your uterus is scarred and baron for all I care. Just return the favor and dont come bitching if I refuse taxation and horde guns.

Hahaha genius! I believe that quote should be entered into the record books as the more visceral cousin of "live and let live"!

I think it is a darn good idea.

We can put Texas (Conservative) as one country and the rest can be the other country.

I think this is why our founders wanted a smaller federal govt and stronger, more independent states. As long as the states did not violate the U.S. Constitution, like minded people would build the type of state govt that best suited their interests, those that did not agree could move to states where they could be with people who believed the way they do.
State and local govt's should be more responsive and responsible to the people.
As far as putting those of European descent onto reservation, what the heck was that all about? I can't imagine someone saying that African descendants should be placed onto reservations and not having punitive measures placed against them. Come on, I would like to believe that a moderator would be a little more careful with racism than that.

reply to post by NGC2736
There are plenty of nice south American and African countries with very few whites you should move to one of them now so you can experience all the brotherly love you are missing. You are really missing out on paradise. You should move as far away from America and her terrible white children now.

The reason our system "works" as well as it does is that there are people on both sides. It is an immature, naive, horrible idea.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
What? Paul has said over and over it's up to the states as far as abortion goes

He has also said this:

# Abortion is murder. (Apr 2008)
# Roe v. Wade decision was harmful to the Constitution. (Apr 2008)
# Define life at conception in law, as scientific statement. (Feb 2008)
# Protecting the life of the unborn is protecting liberty. (Feb 2008)

On the Issues

So, in the conservative states, it sounds like abortion would be illegal, whether by the federal government or the state's. One Constitutional right down the tubes. I don't believe states rights should trump the Constitution.

If gay marriage is left to the states, it will most likely be illegal in all conservative states. Two Constitutional rights down the tube.

So, while I'm in no position to have an abortion, nor am I gay, I am pro freedom and Ron Paul's position allows the states to discriminate. The "liberal" side is sounding pretty good to me at this point.

Besides, whichever area is Libertarian nobody will say boo about anything you do.

If it's true libertarian, then I'm fine by that, but you must admit, my confusion over personal liberties is valid, taking the current "conservative" party into consideration.

Where will the evangelicals who want to control everyone else's lives and have some sort of "moral order" live in this new country? I think they should have their own section, where religion and government are one.

reply to post by eradown

Ack! Please don't make me think about the US being divided! I'm a California native but unlike most people in this state I'm very conservative. If the US became two new countries Cali would be designated as part of the liberal country and that wouldn't work for me at all.

Thankfully there are pockets of California that are conservative and I believe that they would resist being part of a liberal country just as much as I would. My hometown of La Jolla is an example of one of those pockets. While San Diego may be a liberal city, La Jolla remains a very conservative town. The most liberal group in La Jolla would be those attending UCSD and because they are not permanent residents they don't have much influence on the overall tone of the town.

Let's keep the USA as it is and work to become MORE united rather than discuss how it can be further divided.

Jemison

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What about those of us who totally support the Constitution AND gay marriage and abortion rights

If everyone was free to exercise the first right, you won't be needing the second right now would you? Reminds me of my life as a young sailor. Lots of loving, but no children. (That I know of)

No, two countries would just make the U.S. a weaker country.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by Captain Obvious]

reply to post by NGC2736
You may have been jesting ,but there really are race baiters who run around screaming for such stuff in all honesty. They would be miserable even if they did get their wish. They just don't like people.

The people who want to divide this huge country aren't reacting so much out of hatred for each other. North ,south , east , west are all pretty much screwed. No one wants to see the TPTB have one whole land mass to rape. There is a sense that we need to run in different directions in order to increase our odds of escape. If you must run, run to the southwest or Mexico. The TPTB think the Southwest and Mexico are hell holes making them ideal hideouts.

I would not know about sound bites. I don't watch television.



[edit on 11-11-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by CeltAngel


How long do you think it will be until the United States has a civil war. Those that want to abide by the founding fathers views, and then the "New World Order". I believe it is going to happen in our life time.

So it looks like the problems with the country boils down to a few large cities on both left coasts. If not for these cities we would be united. Seems the solution is obvious.

reply to post by SailorinAZ
Why don't we just all try and live together?