Beware of some "Alien Messages", Hell's Gates, and other "phenomena" in ATS.

reply to post by citizenc


I went through the same thing your friend did, only waking up after reading more informed stuff and more sensible sources. I felt ashamed that collected as I try to be, I would falter like that.

But we all learn, life's one big learning trip. Amazing way to be awaken.

reply to post by citizenc


It’s amusing, and quite disturbing, to read the varying reactions to this thread. Though not surprising. It does, in its subject matter, openly imply an intimacy with alternate viewpoints of a reality that is the norm for most people. There’s nothing unusual in the focus of this thread. This is what ATS is about.

Anyone who affirms on these forums to having had access to, or ongoing knowledge of, an elevated form of thinking is simply sticking their head above the parapet during a very intense fire-fight. And despite citizenc’s restrained approach, some of the feedback is as bullet-like as you can get.

It makes me wonder if, and when (because I believe it will happen), we are presented with genuinely progressive philosophies about our nature, and that of our universe, that have a distinctly convincing, though unprovable provenance above and beyond the comfort zone of most people’s understanding, that they too will be riddled with holes from the sceptical machine-gunners. (My one is perfectly oiled and polished at all times).

Without being sensationalistic, citizenc is attempting to describe his/her experiences with the use of eloquence and a disciplined, straightforward manner. This is quite unusual.
And refreshing.
Normally we would, by page four, be well into lurid descriptions of alien liaisons in deep, dark forests, or encounters with characters directly taken from Clive Barker novels. Maybe even a starship or two.
But no, not this time. Not in this thread.

Or, more correctly, maybe not yet.

But, if it comes, I for one will listen with great interest.

I do not suffer hoaxers lightly. In fact, no matter how rational they may be, when they trip up (which they invariably do) they rub me up the wrong way intensely.

I suppose I have such a powerful dislike because I, like so many others, simply want to know what the heck is going on in this complicated, puzzling life. I’ve just turned forty-five, and I haven’t got a clue. (That does not mean that I am clueless, by the way. They are two markedly separate traits). But those who falsely insist that they know what life is all about, yet cannot do anything else but spout garish, poorly constructed sci-fi, muddy the waters for those who may well have something real to offer.

I hope and pray that that day comes in my lifetime.

Would it be so extraordinary to read of a believable encounter with the fantastic on ATS that goes on to be genuine? One that does not begin with an obviously fictional opening gambit? One that does not insult our intelligence, but seeks to expand it?

Can you imagine what that would be like?

I am not defending citizenc. What I am doing is saying that my BS radar, as I read this thread, lies surprisingly dormant. That is odd, for me. I don’t think it’s broken. It might be faulty (with respect to the OP).

Only time, and a little patience and tolerance from us all, will tell.

reply to post by Beamish


Welcome thoughts, as always...

Refreshing as well for me to see condensed, intelligent rhetoric about skepticism, which is EXACTLY what I have been, in my own way, ENCOURAGING.

I welcome and invite you and your machine gun, both of which I have come to respect, to light my cigarette as soon as I may trip.

And, although I operate from the "believer" side, for my experiences allow me no choice, as some may have seen, my arms are up and ready as well, and maybe, as you say Beamish, I have been a bit contained.

Then again, it's hard to go against one's own nature sometimes...

[edit on 14-11-2008 by citizenc]

Originally posted by Beamish
Would it be so extraordinary to read of a believable encounter with the fantastic on ATS that goes on to be genuine? One that does not begin with an obviously fictional opening gambit? One that does not insult our intelligence, but seeks to expand it?

The above requires making a judgment. That judgment doesn't prove right or wrong, fact or fiction, only opinion. This was the point of my original response.

I for one think citizenc is genuine in his/her intent. But I believe things were off on the wrong foot by focusing on the fantastic stories rather than the reactions, which I felt was the true intent. I feel that the OP was judgmental, and the response to my initial post was even more so. I know citizenc doesn't see it this way, but I would ask if that matters?

Whatever the intent, the reaction is ultimately what we could be talking about, or that was my impression. Ignoring the reaction doesn't do anyone any good and implies arrogance and instigates ignorance. Because ultimately this is an issue of trust. It doesn't build trust telling someone they aren't experienced or knowledgeable enough to understand, most especially when interaction with that person have been so extremely limited. This imparts separatism and always leads to disagreement.

This is counterproductive to the effort to quell fear. There must be implicit trust to meet that end.

If you wish for people to feel less fearful, give them a reason to be so. Fear cannot be denied. But it can be overcome.

That being said, I don't agree with those who came later with attempts at obvious character assassination. This is exactly what I was speaking out against.

As I said, I do think citizenc is intelligent and earnest, but from where I stand, seeing what I have seen and being as I have been, I don't think the earnest intent was served by the structure of the argument.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark

I for one think citizenc is genuine in his/her intent. But I believe things were off on the wrong foot by focusing on the fantastic stories rather than the reactions, which I felt was the true intent.

Thank you for giving my motives the benefit of the doubt.

With this said, no my intent was not to go after the reactions.

I was going straight to the heart of the fear-mongering, the fantastic-without-use, and other info-tainment that, if it were not for the REACTIONS, I would consider funny and sometimes worth the read.

I MENTION the reactions because it seems that the people involved in some of those "ideologies" have less care and sympathy for people's well being than they seem so eager to make everybody know.

As illustrated in the story I shared about my friend, these things can be even downright venomous, and it will not be always that people will be able to discern and discriminate.

While allowing for things and history to go as they must, I TOO will enjoy my role, sometimes as the defender, sometimes as the detractor, of CONTENT and MESSAGES, depending on where they stand in my scheme of things.

I am also human, and enjoying it.

I feel that the OP was judgmental, and the response to my initial post was even more so. I know citizenc doesn't see it this way, but I would ask if that matters?

I would be very sorry if I believed to have been judgmental, especially to yours, which only you read, because I never had that intent in mind, so I have a hard time believing my words would fall so far away from my own intents.

I have re-read the whoole thread (as if it were that much...) and honestly, although I see a bit less containment than Beamish graciously grants, I see myself as emotionally engaged, but very little judging.

I think that maybe my calls for BALANCE and more informed approaches have the air of criticizing and judging those who presumably do not apply them, but then, I would just have to strive to say the SAME in a different way.

I promise that I will revise this aspect much more carefully, hoping to fine tune this and to not fall into that trap in the future.

Last but not least, thank you for pointing it out in an educated, constructive manner.

This is counterproductive to the effort to quell fear. There must be implicit trust to meet that end.

I disagree.

In fact, I did not expect all this attention to my call to BEWARE, but certainly, I would not have expected the people that suffer the consequences of those materials come here and berate at me either.

Rather, and this already happened at least once, the very people that further help proliferate that type of "information" were the ones I was addressing, while HOPING that some people along the way might notice and take note.

I would rather have people be angry than in fear, because at least anger evokes reaction, while fear imprisons and paralyzes, and that I will denounce and fight every time I even get the slightest chance.
So my provoking tone was desired.

There is much other work I do in other places where I am, as a working personality, much more at liberty to enact some of my other traits.

It seems that here in ATS, sometimes fire needs to be fought with fire, and I engaged on this one time to see what would happen.

If you wish for people to feel less fearful, give them a reason to be so. Fear cannot be denied. But it can be overcome.

We are some of us trying, just as you are, and this energizes my native hopeful nature.

As I said, I do think citizenc is intelligent and earnest, but from where I stand, seeing what I have seen and being as I have been, I don't think the earnest intent was served by the structure of the argument.

The fact that most people than expected have read some of the warnings, and that just ONE person may shy away from dangerous and toxic currents, already is and will be a success in my book.

I appreciate the time you give, and the subtle compliment and the critique.

I will forget about the first and give time and consideration to the second.

As I have said, nothing is a finished product, and certainly not I.
I will take this as more material to watch and learn.

Hope others can do the same.

reply to post by citizenc


Thank you for responding to my argument rather than me. From this point I feel we can disagree as much as necessary but a tone of mutual respect has been established that I very much appreciate.

It seems that we are reaching for a common goal, simply disagreeing about the approach. To that I can say there is always more than one way to approach any issue.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by TravelerintheDark]

reply to post by citizenc


I appreciate your time citizenc. I can relate to "Joe's" worries, and I have had enough of these worried, paranoid nights I have been having. I can tell that there are bad times coming, this whole planet seems to be falling apart. You can't deny that. Also, the crisis that Biden mentioned on live TV has me concerned. It seems they KNOW for sure there will be a crisis on Jan. 22,23, and will be far worse than 911. Nuclear, is the key word I believe. Many prophets( cayce, Nostradamus) have foreseen these bad times and of course Revelations(not sure if that was part of the lies in religion or the whole Bible is true or not?). Should we worry or prepare for that? I am going to take the advice that you and travelerinthedark have offered me. I feel relieved every time I read your posts . Thank you for helping me. You have done your good deed of the day today.

reply to post by imysbbad


Please do not worry, or even if you do, do not let it condition your life and your world to the point where you surrender your piece of mind.

Although it sounds as a given, said-a-thousand times theme, try to be positive.
Search out the good and the way of learning in everything that happens.
Have faith and confidence in the Divine nature of all things, for when you understand how things happen and WHY they happen, it will all make sense.

You will see design and a continuous dance of perfection in everything.

It does not mean that we stop being human, for now. We will be "imperfect", and do all sorts of "unexplainable" things.

But as long and as much you get to reach deeper levels of perspective, you will see that you can be ready and at peace with all that happens, and motivated enough to fight to change what you think you must or want.

One day, we will all see only Love, only growth, and only Good, for that is really all there is, in spite of appearances.

This is not wishful thinking, and it is not denying any "facts". Rather, it is reinforcing and REMINDING ourselves of the true nature we are, and to which we will return.

OK citz, I came on to see if you have gotten busy with your thread and started doing something other than gain alliances and spank the few while dishing out endless streams of acceptance to those who agree with you.

Have I missed something? Have you shared anything but your judgements and underhanded attacks on threads like mine?

ATS is not Total drama Websport, you do not need to control and create minions to serve and validate the fact you have strong oppinions and like to have others strenghten your reserves.

Are you writting from a podium? I thought this thread was to share 'your' experiences however strange and unbelievable they may be.

Can you make some rules for us to follow so we dont cross the line of the unbelieveable unbelievable. I have a few soft ones for you that would be acceptable I am sure, that would not make you fear or doubt or get angry at me. Should they be religious of nature or just ordinary everyday unknown stuff?

You did U@U me and ask that I come on and Apologize, I just cannot untill I have heard something of your experince first that would make you feel my story should be in the trash bin rather than The Grey Area.

At some point I truly hope to find common ground.

reply to post by antar


Well, speaking as an unsolicited, voluntary minion I'll speak up and explain why I chose to give citizenc a word of support.

The thing I appreciate most about the posts is their coherence. I understand exactly what is being said and recognize some of the experiences described. My understanding of some matters is the same as citizenc's. If I had to sit down and write on this subject I would wish that I could do such a brilliant job.

Reading these posts has reminded me of old experiences which I was happy to re-live and they have re-inforced my beliefs and understanding of the 'way things are'.

I was pleased to find a like-minded individual.

citizenc's unfailing courtesy has been impressive as has his/her kindness to people who have asked questions.

Courtesy and kindness are rare qualities and, I think, should be emulated. Particularly by fellow travellers on the path.

Have I missed something? Have you shared anything but your judgements and underhanded attacks on threads like mine?

Hi! Minion #2 here. I do not understand this statement at all. I believe that citz was ASKED questions and he kindly answered them. No judgements at all. I am a grown women who makes her own decisions and believes what I truly think is the truth. There is NO controlling or creating going on in this post(not with me). That statement made me feel belittled in a way, and also being referred to as a "minion". I read your whole post also. You have a totally different personality on this one. You are acting like the ones you were having a hard time with on your post. You just will not let up and now you are calling people names that are simply asking the poster questions. That is what this is all about. Post-ask questions-reply back-ask questions again.... I don't see the problem. If you are dissatisfied, then why not find something else that might please you instead of feeling so unsatisfied. You have experienced a lot of misery in your life. Maybe you have just become accustomed to it and feel the need for it everyday?? I find this thread to be rather calming , and will probably want more of it if this useless complaining will ever end. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I am just defending my character. It was an insult to be called a controlled and created minion (never been called that before and I know you didn't call my name but we all know that i was one of them). OK, I am done with all this negative energy. I am going to be a more positive person everyday and I can feel it slipping away now.

Originally posted by antar
OK citz, I came on to see if you have gotten busy with your thread and started doing something other than gain alliances and spank the few while dishing out endless streams of acceptance to those who agree with you.

Have I missed something? Have you shared anything but your judgements and underhanded attacks on threads like mine?

ATS is not Total drama Websport, you do not need to control and create minions to serve and validate the fact you have strong oppinions and like to have others strenghten your reserves.

Are you writting from a podium? I thought this thread was to share 'your' experiences however strange and unbelievable they may be.

Can you make some rules for us to follow so we dont cross the line of the unbelieveable unbelievable. I have a few soft ones for you that would be acceptable I am sure, that would not make you fear or doubt or get angry at me. Should they be religious of nature or just ordinary everyday unknown stuff?

You did U@U me and ask that I come on and Apologize, I just cannot untill I have heard something of your experince first that would make you feel my story should be in the trash bin rather than The Grey Area.

At some point I truly hope to find common ground.

It's always interesting to see how the as I percieve them.. darker side of conscious adapt to discredit those with genuine intent.. surely they always take a friendly face.. but I'm surprised at how well they are doing now.. Surely such a thread would be a cause of attention to such an awareness.. I apploud your willingness to knowingly subject yourself to whatever may have been lurking. I find the experience of being open amongst people who I know wish to discredit my personal truth refreshing.. you've stood your ground well, thanks for sharing, I look forward to hearing about your approach, methods and experiences, with love and respect, Klaws.

I really like Citizenc's approach and way of expressing. He/She doesn't seem arrogant to me and would really love to hear his/her experiences
Flagged and Starred:





[edit on 15/11/08 by plutoxgirl]

reply to post by antar

You did U@U me and ask that I come on and Apologize, I just cannot untill I have heard something of your experince first that would make you feel my story should be in the trash bin rather than The Grey Area.

Another touch of class from the self-proclaimed Master...

I am sorry that you take may warnings so personally and not very much in the spirit of ATS's deny ignorance motto, to which you must have done something to participate, seeing that your presence has been substantial in these forums...

Also saddened by the fact that now you come not only to attack me, but also the people that have come to share their 2.

I remind you, in case you have not read, that this thread is about dangerous CONTENT on some threads, about intellectual preparation, and about care for readers and humanity alike. Not about the people who write them.

BY THE WAY: since you mentioned it, I did U2U you so that you would RESPOND to my answer on your accusations, to which I still see no post or will to do so.

Mine was a conciliatory effort, for I consider quite ridiculous to lower oneself to such antics in ANY venue, but now I see that with some people it is harder than others.

As the Light worker you say you are, I would have expected different.

Some people try to do the right thing, and others will do whatever.

As a response to YOU who have replied in solidarity and simple, plain interest:

I want to thank you, and not because you support ME, because that really is less important, but rather you help me as we portray and develop the meaning of a MESSAGE.

I think it is very important to have others check and balance information and motives, and the more handling by capable people the better.

I have already modified and corrected in this thread when called to do so, and will continue to apply that standard, for as I always say, we are none of us a finished product.

The quality and good manners of critical input, as well as concise and responsible dissent, are nothing but useful to the minds that want to keep on growing.

And words of course, words of affection and solidarity warm the heart and make all the more worthwhile.

reply to post by citizenc


Still waiting for something………..Though I see you may have at least helped allay some of our fears. Though with respect, a little common sense when reading general doomsday type threads/forums can usually do the same thing as waiting for a feel good truth to make it all better. Perhaps citizenc, it might be more useful to show us how to meditate to get to the truth of our fears, this may be more relevant in normal daily lives to begin with than seeing the “divine nature in everything” and relaying it for us. Though meditation has been briefly mentioned, I am patiently waiting for any method, something…...

While we are waiting for something practical, and in the same spirit of universal truth. For one who has volunteered to show us the true nature of reality. What would you say fear was? Not the normal superficial definition, but what is the thing itself. Where does it come from, go to, look like, feel to the touch. What is it made of, exactly? Which form, where did you eventually track it down to, which part of your psychology, which dimension of existence, which instant did it in fact appear in your existence ? What created it? To what depth have you found the truth of this simple basic human feeling, for one who knows himself? What use, what implications? To what depth do you know yourself where this is concerned? Please try to be precise, exact if you can, not new age vague.

Ditto, what is the mind itself? What is it made of, where is it? Why is it?

Ditto the soul you speak of. Apart from any relevant above questions on it, where in your psyche does this exist? Which dimension, is it big, small, beautiful, ugly etc. What exactly is it made of? Who made it? When? How do you know this? How do you know with certainty that you have one of your very own, or that anyone else does? Again, precisely please.

Failing any of this, or as well if you like, can you tell me the truth of a simple blade of grass? In all levels of existence, including psychological, soul and/or divine levels as appropriate ?

I would like to work out what you really believe, what you began to tell us. Perhaps to while the time away until the practical work starts. Until we can quite easily prove your truth to ourselves, as you infer ……. The depth of your knowledge you have offered to share, particularly of self. Unless you don’t need to bother with the “warts ’n all’ to know yourself. Just go straight to the top, to the divine, which seems a contradiction when discussing us humans..

It is commonly known by many that the perceptions of the mind shape what we perceive. Our past experience, perceived future, fears, customs, habits, beliefs, pride, likes and dislikes etc etc affect us on very deep levels. No two people usually see exactly the same thing the same way. The biggest problem for practices like true meditation is always the mind, because it really has nothing to do with the mind. The mind can only try to get to grips with things without distorting them. Though what passes for new age meditation is often different. Likewise with the different dimensions you speak of, much illusion. In this vein I ask why you would your mind be more reliable than Ms. Goodchild, Jim Jones, Heaven’s Gate or the Hare Krishna’s?

Were you recently told these truths of yours by someone or read them and then went off, practiced, and magically found the same thing? I also see that you could have the best of intentions, but that could be more cause to be wary. There is a litany of historical disasters that have sprung from people’s beliefs and good intentions mixed with the need to make everyone else see their truth. Please understand that this is directed at what you have written in this thread, by someone who doesn’t claim to know the whole truth of existence. Not necessarily at you, because I don’t know you. You are in all probability a very nice well meaning person. (a zealous one) If the original momentum of this thread was more like – “beware of this information (aliens, heaven’s gate etc), let’s see if we can find the truth by ourselves for anyone interested”, I would have seen it as more useful. At least perhaps it would have left some room for individuality. If you feel the questions silly or not useful, or just couldn’t be bothered, that’s ok. They come partly from boredom anyway. Still waiting for something a bit substantial though…………..

reply to post by citizenc


P.s. As I cannot edit my above post for some reason I will have to do it here. In the interests of not derailing your thread, or turning it into a useless debate, I won't demand any answers to my questions. Add to this that I am already satisfied your message is in many ways misleading. Though you are certainly welcome to if you think you should, that would be interesting. Take it more as what I feel about your message so far. Which I hope is not a problem. I am only hanging around to see if there is anything more of practical value, in the hope that it isn't the usual psuedo spiritual new age bookstore/guru type spin. Waiting being the operative word.....



[edit on 16-11-2008 by Cogito, Ergo Sum]

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by citizenc

 

You meditate from the mind? No wonder meditation is as far from the mental states as it is the opposite of what you say, it is of the nomind, but then your ego would fight that if it could even begin to comprehend.

Thank you antar, though I certainly don't wish to pick sides on any disagreements. I have nothing at all against citizenc. It's a shame you didn't explain this for us. There is a great truth there in amongst what you have said.

The truth begins where the mind ends. The part of us that contains our true inner beauty, and sees the truth as it is. Where notions of "I" begin to dissapear. It is beyond any mind to grasp the simplicity and paradox of this. The truth can never be give to any mind. The mind is complicated and self centred by nature.

cogito, you are quite the tactition sir, I would love to pick apart some of this stuff, and perhaps if nobody does before I have the time I will give it a go myself. with love and amusement, klaws.

I am really curious so I'll keep checking back.
If anything don't get caught up in any verbal tennis and let's get started.

You have my undivided attention if you have something to share, no matter how unusual it may sound. Well maybe more attention if it is my kind of crazy.



- Lee