Is Barrack Obama a communist?

This has been repeatedly claimed WITH NOT MUCH RESEARCH, but, the more I read about him the more I think it's sadly true.
His white grandfather,
Stanley Dunham introduced both his daughter Anne and Barrack to Frank Marshall Davis;
Telegraph U.K.

His Dad, which we don't know much about his policies, except that he wrote an article in the East Africa journal entitled 'Problems Facing our Socialism', which include such commentaries as these ;(I can't find a WHOLE transcript anywhere!)

"The African tradition is fundamentally based on communal ownership of major means of production and sharing of fruits of labors, so expended in production, to the benefit of all, and yet the paper advocates land title deeds and private ownership of land-a major means of production."

Obama Sr on taxes.

"Certainly there is no limit to taxation if the benefits derived from public services by society measure up to the cost in taxation which they have to pay. It is a fallacy to that there is this limit, and it is a fallacy to rely mainly on individual free enterprise to get the savings."

On nationalization.

"True, there are cases in which nationalization is bad, but there are, likewise, quite a few benefits to be derived from it."

his mother
The Seattle Times

"She was not a standard-issue girl. You don't start out life as a girl with a name like Stanley without some sense you are not ordinary."

One respite was found in a wing of Mercer Island High called "anarchy alley." Jim Wichterman taught a wide-open philosophy course that included Karl Marx. Next door, Val Foubert taught a rigorous dose of literature, including Margaret Mead's writings on homosexuality.

Those classes prompted what Wichterman, now 80 and retired in Ellensburg, called "mothers' marches" of parents outraged at the curriculum.

The Che Guevara flag at Obama's Houston, Tx. office; BTW,

"The U.S. is the great enemy of mankind!" raved Ernesto "Che" Guevara in 1961. "Against those hyenas there is no option but extermination. We will bring the war to the imperialist enemies' very home, to his places of work and recreation. The imperialist enemy must feel like a hunted animal wherever he moves. Thus we'll destroy him! We must keep our hatred against them (the U.S.) alive and fan it to paroxysms!"

Here's a rundown on most of the communist debacle;
What Barrack Obama learned from the communist party

His cousin Raila was/is communist;
Washington Post

his ties to community organization a la Saul Alinsky

Bill Ayers' Weather underground

The founding document called for a "white fighting force" to be allied with the "Black Liberation Movement" and other radical movements[3] to achieve "the destruction of US imperialism and achieve a classless world: world communism."

whose last vestige, even today has this credo;

We oppose oppression in all its forms including racism, sexism, homophobia, classism and imperialism. We demand liberation and justice for all peoples. We recognize that we live in a capitalist system that favors a select few and oppresses the majority. This system cannot be reformed or voted out of office because reforms and elections do not challenge the fundamental causes of injustice

Weatherunderground

We all know how well this turned out for China, Russia, Africa, Albania. etc.....

What am I forgetting?
The more I search in REPUTABLE places, the more he sounds communist......
Do we really believe no one considered the diebold machines for hacking votes for mccain and then said, "no, not this time"? What better way for U.S. domination, than a communist dictator and since the patriot act 1 and 2, it's not that big of a stretch. People disappearing for dissent, no trials...........


[edit on 10-11-2008 by Clearskies]

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Clearskies]

I'm having trouble seeing anything personally relating Obama and communism at all in this article. Is there any direct evidence to what you say other than people who orbit him?

There are references to socialist concepts sure, but why are people so scared of this? The Euro zone should be proof enough that socialism and capitalism can co-exist.

Originally posted by Clearskies
This has been repeatedly claimed WITH NOT MUCH RESEARCH, but, the more I read about him the more I think it's sadly true

But have you read about Communism itself? I mean outside of trying to determine if Obama is one or not? Just Communism itself.

Here is some quick info from Wiki:

Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general

Communism attempts to offer an alternative to the problems believed to be inherent with capitalist economies and the legacy of imperialism and nationalism. Communism states that the only way to solve these problems is for the working class, or proletariat, to replace the wealthy bourgeoisie, which is currently the ruling class, in order to establish a peaceful, free society, without classes, or government

Honestly... setting aside whether you like Obama or not. Whether you like democrats or not. Do you honestly believe the POTUS wants a classless society without Government, or very limited Government ??..

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

i havent heard a lot about his background but it looks like his family dont have large ties to any conspiracy or organisation so really his motives arnt really known to me in nwo. i havent heard of him having tyes or seen beyond reasonable doubt of him having serious tyes to a org like skull and bones or bohemian grove about him being a comunist well free enterprize can only go so far before if your born into a family without money it may aswell be communisim or if you live in a sht country

Well if he is so are the 63 million other Americans that voted for him.Not comparing the two but I recall the same thing being said about MLK that was stupid also........right?

There's a huge difference between Socialism and Communism first off.

But I think the biggest way we can see if we are socialist, capitalists or facsists is this. Does the Government own the business, do business and government operate independently(as what capitalist free market ideals dictate or does business run the government.

Sadly the past 8 years it seems like we've taken the path of Privatizing the profits, and when business' fail, socializing the loss'. While we went to business for things like mercenaries, our secretary of treasury and heck practically the whole Bush cabinet.

If Republicans had it there way we wouldn't pay for firemen, policemen, ambulances, schools none of that. We'd let it all be privatized and only the rich neighborhoods would get the benefit.

America has to walk a fine line between all 3 ideals, regulate business when necessary, step in when hundreds of thousands of jobs are on the line, and allow business' to fail, and sometimes de-regulate business' when beaucracy takes it's toll.

But I whole heartedly believe that we need to regulate, the stock market, the energy futures market and housing market. Where things don't need to be held back or regulated is the development of science and technology. Because that's the only way we'll get out of this mess is if we make leaps and bounds in those fields over the next few years.

But back to the original question. Is Obama a communist? I think that depends more on your political persuasions and world view than anything else. But no I don't believe he's a communist.

But if you really wanna find out, see if he's said anything or had any kind of relationship with the Chicago school of economics. They are HUGE free market proponets. We gave students of the school free reign over South America after we propped up so many dictators down there during the 60's and 70's. Don't believe me? Check out a book called 'Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism' by Naomi Klein.

reply to post by Oscitate


In 'Dreams from my Father', Obama wrote about "Frank" the poet;

^^^^^ I don't know what show that is.
He also wrote in 'Dreams From My Father';

"I suspect that I sound incredibly naïve, wedded to lost hopes, like those Communists who peddle their newspapers on the fringes of various college towns." (Dreams pg xv)

"Political discussions, the kind that at Occidental had once seemed so intense and purposeful, came to take on the flavor of the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union or the African cultural fairs...." (Dreams p122)

and this, which I can't find the page #;

“To avoid being mistaken for a sellout,” he wrote, “I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets….At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated.”

Now, after that he worked for The Gamaliel Foundation
From their website;

History of the Movement: This type of community organizing began in Chicago in 1938. Saul Alinsky created the "Back of the Yards Community Council". The organization operated in the shadow of Chicago’s stock yards. The community was beset with poverty, political corruption, gangs, disease, deteriorating housing and inadequate schools; but most of all it was beset with a sense of powerlessness. The organization successfully engaged people to change the conditions of the community. Its motto was, "We shall decide our own destiny."

More, later, maybe............



[edit on 10-11-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Communism has good ideals on the surface, but, each man should have his own reward.
You can't legislate ALL-AROUND charity and volunteerism.
It NEVER works out in practice. It was even tried in the new American colonies and FAILED.
People can only give by THEIR own conscience.
We ALREADY have laws against monopolies and corruption, they ought to be enforced.
The No-religion aspect is fatalistic.

reply to post by Grimnal


Here's a thread on that.
Obama and the bilderbergers, Proof!

reply to post by Tricky63


I don't know much about Martin Luther King, but, all those people who voted for Obama, CAN'T ALL BE communists.
The Voice of the Revolutionary Communist Party of America LOVES that he won, though.
Change


[edit on 10-11-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by djpaec


I don't believe in Socialism, Communism or Fascism (which may be what we've had for awhile), but, I DO believe in a Republic with a touch of democracy, as far as I know.

reply to post by Clearskies


Could it simply be that Obama has an inclusive mind? I learned of communism in school and I experimented through life with many beleifs and social structures, my shelves are full of books on communism and socialistic ideas. Being curious and grabbing at the positives of any philisophy is a good thing, it makes for an open mind and successful problem solver.

But I get the sense that this is another thread about "guilt by association"

reply to post by Witness2008


Would 'inclusiveness' include those, 'bitter, deluded' people 'who cling to their guns and religion', like Obama said of an entire state?
I'm not trying to make a connection where there is none.

reply to post by Clearskies


Would you care to show me the proof of Obamas use of the word "deluded' and the proof that he was speaking of the populous of an entire state?

reply to post by Witness2008


You're right. I was quoting from memory and he didn't say 'deluded'.
He was talking about small-town Pennsylvania and small towns in the mid-west.

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

So for trying to make a well thought out post. I get I don't believe in communism, which all I said was there was differences between socialism and communism. Then tried to guide you to analyzing of thinking what our country actually is. You sir/mam are a thinker I really mean it.

O I don't believe in communism, so does that mean you don't believe in China?Cause I hate to break it to you it exists.

There a fine example of the point I was trying to get across. China, a communist nation, realized if it was going to embrace Globilazation, instead of it's typical isolation, that it would also have to incoporate capitalism into there business sector.

While this nation is a republic or not has nothing to do with whether we have socialist, facist or capitalist tendencies when it comes to our business or domestic policy. Because we may be a republic, but if you put the right people in place we could be full on Communist or Facist. While I think Obama, may pass some 'socialist' ideas like heathcare for all(notice not free you still have to pay for it), schip and taxing the rich,who dissproportionately got a huge chuck of the Bush tax cuts(the top 1% received well over 60%). Where we already have things in place like Social Security, Medicare and progressive tax's(started by a republican look it up).

Sorry for trying to raise the level of discussion in this thread into something besides the typical Bush is a Facsist, Obama is a communist socialist gun taking away muslim, who just HAPPENED to go to a church with Jesus in it's name and a crazy preacher.


[edit on 10-11-2008 by djpaec]

[edit on 10-11-2008 by djpaec]

reply to post by Clearskies


Could it be that he was using small town Pennsylvania as an example of being excluded from the democratic process? That their concerns are not addressed so therefore they cling to what they do have as a reflection of constitutional rights?

Pennsylvania helped Obama take the election.

I am optomistic that the wide range of beleifs and experiences that Obama has in his life will indeed aid him in leading this country into a more just and prosperous direction.

reply to post by djpaec


I'm a woman.
China only recently embarked on capitalism. Before that, Mao Tse-Tung killed Tens of millions of Chinese through murder, forced labor and starvation.
I think you stated the solutions to corrupt capitalism here;

America has to walk a fine line between all 3 ideals, regulate business when necessary, step in when hundreds of thousands of jobs are on the line, and allow business' to fail, and sometimes de-regulate business' when beaucracy takes it's toll.

But I whole heartedly believe that we need to regulate, the stock market, the energy futures market and housing market. Where things don't need to be held back or regulated is the development of science and technology. Because that's the only way we'll get out of this mess is if we make leaps and bounds in those fields over the next few years.

reply to post by Witness2008


Well, putting down half a state and most of the mid-west doesn't really seem to me to be inclusive. They 'fell through' with Clinton, bush....What does that mean?
I am hopeful and prayerful about our future, but, the more I know about the cultural influences of Obama, the less I see of open-mindedness for non-communists.

reply to post by Clearskies

China only recently embarked on capitalism. Before that, Mao Tse-Tung killed Tens of millions of Chinese through murder, forced labor and starvation.

We enslaved a whole race, almost whiped out the native americans, our bloodiest war was against ourselves, imprisoned a whole race because of war, suspended habeus corpus and the right to a fair trial because of terrorism and sent our young men to die for no reason in vietnam. All in the name of this great republic. What's your point?

Edit: Missread something



[edit on 10-11-2008 by djpaec]