SCOTUS petitioned for writ certiorari in Obama citizenship case, Obama to respond by Dec 1

Originally posted by MAINTAL
I don't have to see it in my hands, it is that he refuses to show it that I have a problem with. It is that he actuall had an excuse NOT to wear a flag pin ever that I had a problem with, it is that he actually had a reason he wouldn't place his hand on his heart I had a problem with.

So you are maintaining that the digital copy presented on fightthesmears.com... is case of Obama 'refusing to show it'? You do know that FightTheSmears.com is 'owned' by Obama, right?
What about the copy of the Birth Certificate posted there do you take issue with?

Or is it that you hold ObamaCrimes in higher regard as a website than FightTheSmears?
DocMoreau

P.S. I think that by you including the 'flag pin' into this discussion implies that no matter what amount of proof anyone provides you, you will not listen. Somehow, you have started to make yourself deluded trying to rationalize your feelings towards Obama. Wouldn't it just be easier for your psyche to just 'call a spade, a spade'?

Originally posted by DocMoreau

Originally posted by MAINTAL
I don't have to see it in my hands, it is that he refuses to show it that I have a problem with. It is that he actuall had an excuse NOT to wear a flag pin ever that I had a problem with, it is that he actually had a reason he wouldn't place his hand on his heart I had a problem with.

So you are maintaining that the digital copy presented on fightthesmears.com... is case of Obama 'refusing to show it'? You do know that FightTheSmears.com is 'owned' by Obama, right?
What about the copy of the Birth Certificate posted there do you take issue with?

Or is it that you hold ObamaCrimes in higher regard as a website than FightTheSmears?
DocMoreau

P.S. I think that by you including the 'flag pin' into this discussion implies that no matter what amount of proof anyone provides you, you will not listen. Somehow, you have started to make yourself deluded trying to rationalize your feelings towards Obama. Wouldn't it just be easier for your psyche to just 'call a spade, a spade'?

It doesn't mean that at all but it IS consistent with the rest of this problem Obama seems to have with looking into his past and again all that other stuff you bring up is just more "stuff"

All I am asking for is to see him back up his and all the rest of you boasting of his bravado his being born in the US and that the vaulted BC is exactly the same as the COLB is to prove it because frankly, anyone having this much of a problem with that, I no longer believe

reply to post by MAINTAL


And the Hawaiian State Department of Health verifying him being a legitimate US natural born citizen isn't him "backing it up"?

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Well now technically if you read what they wrote, and I'm sure you have, it says that they verified they hold it. They didn't actually verify what's on it because they can't do that. That's why people are still calling for it to be either released or shown to the judge.

reply to post by Jenna


Uh... negative. The title of this alone:

State Department of Health declares Obama birth certificate legal

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures, Fukino said.

Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other.

So, Hawaiian officials have confirmed they have his birth certificate (which means he was born there) and that it is legit.

Unless you are trying to say that they are holding a fake birth certificate and hiding it from everyone...

reply to post by Irish M1ck

So, Hawaiian officials have confirmed they have his birth certificate (which means he was born there) and that it is legit.

Why does that automatically mean he was born there? Where is your proof that is what that means? All it says is that they have it, what it says is still unknown.

Unless you are trying to say that they are holding a fake birth certificate and hiding it from everyone...

There you go putting words in someones mouth. But, now I WILL SAY, they may unknowingly be doing that....

reply to post by Servigistics


Why do I think that means he was born there... hmm, let's think.

Well, I don't know where you were born, but I assume I can pick a state and I'll probably be wrong.

So, let's just say I contacted Massachusetts' State Department of Health in regards to your birth certificate. Do you think they would have it?

NO! You weren't born there, so they don't have it. Hawaii has Obama's original BC, they have verified that they have it. He was born there.

End of story.

The only way you can think he wasn't born there is if you think the State Department is lying.

I'm not jumping to conclusions, I'm just using reasoning.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Did I say they were? And right there in your own links, one of which is an opinion piece by the way and not a news article, say that they verified they are holding it. That was my point, and that was what I said. Again, they can't tell anyone what it says without Obama's explicit consent which he obviously has not given. Thus the parts where they said they will not release it to anyone but Obama (basically). Verifying they hold it does not equal verifying what's on it.

That is what is causing so many people to say he should release it to the courts. Not to individual citizens, websites that very well could be bought or lied to (not to mention owned by a politician), or media outlets especially with all the arguing that goes back and forth about how biased they are for this reason and that reason, but to the court. You see it as semantics, but it is very important to some people to know with 100% certainty that he was born in the US and is, in fact, a natural born US citizen. McCain showed his birth certificate to multiple lawyers to make sure he was eligible before running. Obama has not.

Had he just sent his birth certificate to the judge to begin with when Berg first filed his case instead of stalling and then entering a motion to dismiss, perhaps everyone who is still questioning if he is a natural born citizen would be satisfied and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But he didn't. In some people's minds, stalling and motioning to dismiss instead of just cooperating and ending it once and for all is something the innocent don't do.

This is what people have a problem with, and while you may not agree that there is an issue, some think there is one and their concerns are valid and should be treated as such instead of with the derision, condescension and rudeness that have become prevalent in threads such as this.

reply to post by Jenna


Why else would they have it in their records? If the State Department is holding it, then he was born there.

North Carolina does not have birth records of kids born in California. It doesn't work that way. They have his birth certificate, and by not pressing charges against Obama, they have verified that it is a legitimate source of proof.

You think if they had a fake one or one that said he was born in Kenya (why would they even have that), that they wouldn't press charges against him?



Don't you think the judge would wonder why he was receiving evidence from Obama before he decided on his motion to dismiss? Discovery comes after the motion phase. Why would Obama's lawyers want to skip that phase?



And you can call me rude all you want, but it is in direct response to ignorance. Not one person has formed a valid theory. Either he wasn't born here, or he went to Kenya and lost it, or maybe in Indonesia.

People are just throwing crap and hoping it sticks. You can get mad at me if you want, but I can't help but be condescending to that kind of "debate". It's useless.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Irish M1ck


You assumed that's what it means, and you concluded, but you offer NO PROOF, like you ask everyone else for....

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Irish M1ck

 

Well now technically if you read what they wrote, and I'm sure you have, it says that they verified they hold it. They didn't actually verify what's on it because they can't do that. That's why people are still calling for it to be either released or shown to the judge.

WHY!? This is fine for every other citizen but not Obama?

That's rich.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


The best part HunkaHunka:

Why would they be holding it? Well, they hold it because he was born there. That's what states do, and that's what the entire article was stating:

That they verified that they have Obama's original birth certificate from when he was born there. Why else would they have one?

Why are people asking what's on it? It's irrelevant, unless they think the State Department is lying. Of course, no one has admitted to that yet.

Originally posted by beforetime
anyone notice how dead this thread became after it was moved and closed for a day lol

i have lol

amazing, yes?

reply to post by Servigistics


What kind of proof do you want? It's common knowledge, the state that you were born in has your birth certificate on record. No other state does. Are you denying that?

What proof do you want me to provide?

reply to post by Irish M1ck


I don't know, why would they? Notice how I haven't actually claimed anything about where he was or wasn't born yet you assume I mean one thing or another?

And really, with all the corruption that runs rampant through all parts of our government and the fact that you are posting on a conspiracy site, are you really surprised to find people here who question whether or not there is a cover-up concerning where he was born?

Why would they charge him with anything? For the sake of argument, if something about his birth certificate would give cause to charge someone with anything they would be charging the person who filed it or falsified it. Assuming it has been in their files for decades, Obama wouldn't be the one charged with anything.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Why what? Making sure I understand the question before I try to answer.

reply to post by Jenna


I'm surprised to find people calling for something which has nothing to do with the protocol of verifying the authenticity of a candidate for office.

Yes.. why such an abnormality... you are right.. it reeks of a conspiracy of Obama Haters. They wish for more than any other candidate must provide, and that alone is the answer why Obama's team won't speak to it.

It is baseless.

reply to post by Jenna


You don't have to claim it, I can infer it from your writing. You question everything and pick apart wording so that it loses its meaning.

That statement released by the Hawaiian State Department of Health was meant to vindicate Obama from the charges. That's why they did the investigation, and that's why the released a statement.

Now, they hold his birth certificate from when he was born there. Either he falsified it, which they would know, or they don't have it and they are lying.

Either way, whatever. This may be a conspiracy site, but there are appropriate places for things like this to be. For instance:

Why isn't this thread in the "Political Conspiracies". The whole theory is so preposterous that it now requires an asinine amount of people to have intentionally lied or mislead the public about it. Even John McCain and Sarah Palin, who threw everything but the kitchen sink at Obama during the last few days, wouldn't touch this crazy theory.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
And you can call me rude all you want, but it is in direct response to ignorance. Not one person has formed a valid theory. Either he wasn't born here, or he went to Kenya and lost it, or maybe in Indonesia.

People are just throwing crap and hoping it sticks. You can get mad at me if you want, but I can't help but be condescending to that kind of "debate". It's useless.

You edited while I was responding so I didn't see this part till just now.

I wasn't specifically calling you rude. As I said it's something that fills these types of threads (meaning anything about Obama) so it's not specifically you I was speaking about, it's everyone who thinks that making sniping comments is somehow better than what they are responding to.

Maybe some people are going after the wrong info. Maybe he did lose his citizenship here when he was in school in Indonesia. Maybe he did lose it in Kenya. I don't know. The point I have been trying to make here is that just because you see something as a non-issue, doesn't mean it's not important to someone else. Personally, I don't think that having to go outside at a restaurant or bar if I want to smoke is really that important. Some people have an issue with it and don't want to walk outside. (That was an example of something I see as a non-issue that others feel is important. For those who don't see that it's an example and isn't supposed to be specific to the thread.)

I'm not mad. Couldn't be any calmer, or amused actually, if I was meditating surrounded by monks while watching dogs play basketball. However, I don't think it's too much to ask for people to try to calmly and rationally discuss this issue without assuming that the other side is nothing but morons who are just looking for a reason to discredit Obama. Some may very well be, but I think it would be a stretch to say they all are. Many of the people questioning this are honestly concerned about it. Their issue is not with Obama himself, but with being 100% certain that whoever is president is a natural born citizen. I can't help it if you can't see that.