Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by calihan123
reply to post by noobfun

 

you make some good points. i like your thinking.

i mean a modern day volunteer could be the same thing jesus was. Just someone who wanted to help every once in a while.

to call him the "son of god" who "died for our sins" it really isnt logical. We are all gods sons and daughters. We are all a part of god. Why would jesus be the son of god when we all are in the same boat?

To call him the son of god, and not realize that you are also a son/daughter of god is what is crazy. When you realize he isn't talking about just himself and his idol, unlike how the church has claimed, then it makes a bit more sense.

To think he died for your sins and that you could do anything because of it is illogical. He died to show people the correct way to be, that it was better to die for the truth, than to live in the lie. He showed that it is better to die, than to become the evil yourself by picking up the sword, etc.

This is exactly where Christians start to hate me. Because they believe all they have to do is believe in the idol and they are saved. When in truth, he died showing people the correct way to live/act. It's not about worship and all that.

We are all god. We are all our own authority. The game you see before you is a game of trying to capture your free will and get you to give away your authority for security and giving away the responsibility that comes with it.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light , not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of god. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make and manifest the glory of god that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

-Marianne Williamson

I agree completely with your "source" quotes

Its much easier to be bad than good

Its much easier to be lazy than use all our energies and power to do amazing things

its much easier to blame other people than blame ourselves.

whether or not religion came from valid facts, or out of the imaginations of what people hope life is all about..

at the end of the day everyone wants the same thing. we all want to be accepted. we all want to have an answer for what happens to us in the afterlife. we all want answers to the things in life that are unknown

but those things that are unknown are what keeps our world going. the second we know everything is the second we dont need to be alive anymore. every day is about learning more and more. we should be happy that we dont have all of the answers, because that means we still have so much more left to discover, and thats a lot more exciting than knowing all the answers.




[edit on 6-11-2008 by calihan123]

Badmedia you know I agree with you about the idolatry ordeal even among Christians ....(I like crosses and pictures but they are not my idols and I do not feel like I need them to ward off evil etc ...all I need is prayer) .....but there is also what the symbol of that cross means to people and that is why I wear a cross once inawhile (I dont wear jewelry much at all anymore anyway) ...

But I do not believe that I agree with you on us being gods ..if we were then we would not have needed Christ and that would mean then that he suffered and and died in vain ..and that bothers me alot ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Badmedia you know I agree with you about the idolatry ordeal even among Christians ....(I like crosses and pictures but they are not my idols and I do not feel like I need them to ward off evil etc ...all I need is prayer) .....but there is also what the symbol of that cross means to people and that is why I wear a cross once inawhile (I dont wear jewelry much at all anymore anyway) ...

But I do not believe that I agree with you on us being gods ..if we were then we would not have needed Christ and that would mean then that he suffered and and died in vain ..and that bothers me alot ...

As far as the cross goes, I'm pretty much in the same opinion of bill hicks. It's about like walking around with a rifle pendant around your neck talking about your are just remembering JFK. I personally don't like it at all, but that is just my opinion on it. I cringe at the thought of being remembered by the tool used to murder me, rather than the things I say being what is remembered.

It is our consciousness, not our physical that is god. The body/physical is called the temple of god. God is the ultimate and only observer. It's the part of us that is "aware of being aware". That doesn't mean you are the one and only god, nor does it mean only you are god. It's in all of us. It's our souls, the breathe of god and many other metaphors that describe it.

Understanding this is what Jesus is talking about when it comes to a personal relationship with god. It is the church and the "evil" that tries to make you think god is seperate from you, and that you are not worthy. That is also a good bit of the reason so much is put on the idol of Jesus, to remind and make you think you are not worthy etc and that you are unable to obtain such things. But even Jesus said "And greater things than these will he do". Not "will I do".

John 14:20 tells you that you are god. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

The first things out of my mouth when I realized and understood that was literally - I am god, and I am arguing with myself. That was before I realized the bible was saying these things. So now I just quote John 14:20 to say the same thing since I realize that now.

That is why you judge yourself, that is why you love your neighbors as thyself and so on. Because that are you. Because at our base, we are all god.

I don't think Jesus died in vein. I think if he died for our sins in the way mainstream christianity says, that would be dieing in vein. Because couldn't god just forgive everyone without doing that? He died because that is what it took to show people the correct way to live.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by calihan123
I agree completely with your "source" quotes

Its much easier to be bad than good

Its much easier to be lazy than use all our energies and power to do amazing things

its much easier to blame other people than blame ourselves.

whether or not religion came from valid facts, or out of the imaginations of what people hope life is all about..

at the end of the day everyone wants the same thing. we all want to be accepted. we all want to have an answer for what happens to us in the afterlife. we all want answers to the things in life that are unknown

but those things that are unknown are what keeps our world going. the second we know everything is the second we dont need to be alive anymore. every day is about learning more and more. we should be happy that we dont have all of the answers, because that means we still have so much more left to discover, and thats a lot more exciting than knowing all the answers.

Ever heard the song by suicidal tendencies called psycho talk? The door to ignorance is wide open, anyone can go through that door. But the door to true knowledge and enlightment is heavily guarded.

I see things differently than most people. I see the people, events, times and such as being just variables of an equation. I see the philosophy and understandings to be the equation itself. And I think true knowledge and enlightment comes from knowing the equation. In this world, all the focus is put on the variables, images and symbols, rather than trying to teach people the equations.

For example, in the old testament those people lived by "eye for an eye". That is an equation in that philosophy. Joe pokes John in the eye, or Mark pokes George in the eye. Joe, John, Mark and George are all just variables, in an equation. If you look past Joe, John, Mark and George, and see the actions then you can see the equation. X poked Y in the Z. Madlibs of sorts. You can put any time, people etc in that equation. If I poke you in the eye, and you poke me back, it's the same equation of the above.

And that is what I see as truth in Jesus and the bible. It doesn't matter to me if Jesus is real. I know the philosophy and teachings he gives is real. IE: The equations.

So the path he showed people to live by is the equation to follow IMO. If you think about how a heavenly society would have to act towards one another to be peaceful etc, I think you will see that it requires people to act and follow the way of Jesus.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by badmedia]

In the original post, I would like to disagree with the fact that you said "most people do not belive in ufo or ghosts." I would beg to differ on that, because about half of the people I have ever asked have indeed seen a U.F.O or ghost, and do indeed belive. So it's really a matter of gathering the courage and speaking out.

Originally posted by calihan123
but those things that are unknown are what keeps our world going. the second we know everything is the second we dont need to be alive anymore. every day is about learning more and more. we should be happy that we dont have all of the answers, because that means we still have so much more left to discover, and thats a lot more exciting than knowing all the answers.

True true.
It's not about the end, it's about the journey.
A lot of successful people suffer from depression when they feel there is nothing left to accomplish.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
.....but there is also what the symbol of that cross means to people and that is why I wear a cross once inawhile

I always thought it was a bit strange - the whole cross deal.
I mean, if your friend was stabbed to death, would you wear a necklace of a knife to honor them?
Wouldn't that be more like honoring the killer?
Meh - to each his/her own.
I understand the symbolism but it's still a little strange.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
But I do not believe that I agree with you on us being gods

Actually, I forget the verse, but the Bible does say that we are gods (with a little 'g').
Jesus even says that we are all gods, though not 'God' (capital 'G').

reply to post by calihan123


God as a Creator of Existence is thought in ways to be either the sustainer of the Afterlife or the Afterlife itself. That's the idea for many.

So... in a way any paranormal experience that ventures into an alternate realm, another spiritual side of existence, would constitute as evidence (unless we believe most millions are in fact delusional) for God. The same for ghosts or similar entities. The same for the dream world (for those that believe it is part of a universal consciousness rather then product of the brain).

In my opinion, most paranormal experience gives weight to the idea that there exists a spiritual realm, whence physical reality is intrinsically connected to. And that a spiritual realm is intrinsically connected to Creation itself...

I don't give much credence to the 'exactness' of many of these accounts. Such as the 'absolute Word of God' as espoused by the Bible. But I do believe there is a legitimate experience that underlines this stuff. We just use our human brains too much and rationalize a story for something that isn't really rational to begin with.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by TruthParadox


I must have missed the post about the knowing everything and not being alive. In the perspective of God, everything is static. Because everything is known. The universe is just a big static like painting.

It is only our limited perspectives and lack of knowing everything that creates this reality. So if we did know everything, it's not that we would exist, it's just that things would be static.

It's like when you focus in on a TV and it's like only the TV image exists. The rest is blocked out of your perception. That's like a see life. Or as others have expressed it - a dream.

And this is also where the G and small g god comes in. For me to say that I am god, and I am completely 100% god and nothing else is god would be a lie. I am only god in the sense that I recognize my limited perspective and that my consciousness at it's root is god, and my reality is only the experience of a limited perspective. Or as Bill Hicks would say - experiencing ourself subjectively.

There is the old saying of divide and conquer. And that is basically what the whole thing about the TPTB trying to make people think god is external. It's dividing and conquering. And then you feel "Who am I to do something" and you end up turning your back on god/yourself.

I wouldn't say there are "billions" of liars out there. It really only takes a few good story tellers to get something rolling. St. Paul. Now there was a guy with marketing skills.

Sure, there are paranormal things. Things that happen we don't understand, which is why they're paranormal. Once we figure out what's going on with them (if we ever do), then they'll be normal. Like meteorites. People used to think all kinds of odd things about them, but now we know better.

As for "God," well, a lot of people think they know what's going on with that whole concept. And they might be less "liars," than "misled." As I've often said, I've never even met anyone who could adequately define what they're even talking about when they say "God," so it's pretty hard to believe what they're saying in the first place. And if you don't believe somebody, they really can't be liars, can they?

Anyway, consensus is a lousy way to determine the truth about something. And just because a lot of people hope and believe in something, like life after death, for instance, doesn't make it real.

reply to post by TruthParadox



John 10

33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?


It's based on a verse from Psalms

Psalms 82

5 "They know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 "I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'




Figured since you were askin bout it i'd poke my head in and toss ya the verses on it hehe

Originally posted by badmedia
In the perspective of God, everything is static. Because everything is known. The universe is just a big static like painting.

You have mastered your own consciousness to such an extent that you are equipped to see from the perspective of Creation itself? Impressive

Originally posted by Nohup

Anyway, consensus is a lousy way to determine the truth about something. And just because a lot of people hope and believe in something, like life after death, for instance, doesn't make it real.

Whether things are real in the physical world or not... they are very real to the people who experience them.

there are some things that dont add up to just "believing" in something.. there are scratches that appear on people from spirits in thin air, there are people who have a recorded loss of time while traveling.. there are people who go from non-believers to believers overnight. This is not all just coincedance.

i think the spiritual or whatever you wanna call it world is within our own world and if you look hard enough and listen closely enough you start to see it. you start to hear it. and you start to believe it.

Originally posted by badmedia
Actually, he directly addressed that. That is where Judge not, yest you be judged comes into play, rather than eye for and eye. Let him without sin cast the first stone.

shame no one told paul as he is big on killing gays for god

Got verses for these? I'd like to see them in the correct context, as I do not know where this is said, nor why he would say it. However, the part about loving him and caring about your family bit, is most likely wrong to you because you fail to see he is you.

sure no problem with that your gonan need some mighty apologetic back flips to rework these

and lo jesus said i have come to rip your family apart hate your family in my name

Matthew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

more family values

12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

he tells them his disciples are his mother and brother and the real ones dont count wow i bet that was a special mothers day

19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

ignore your family for the lord -_-

mark
7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

stone your sons for jesus, i guess the no stoning is only for hot prostitues

Luke
5:10 And so was also James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were partners with Simon. And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men.
5:11 And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him.

yay they followed jesus's family values and abandoned thier wives and familys for jesus

14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

more family values again yes hate your mom and dad so you can be special for jesus

14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

and again if you dont turn away from them and everything else in your life i wont be your friend

John
12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
12:4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
12:5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
12:7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

dont help the poor today i want nice toe nails for when im crucified


i guess loving jesus isnt so loving, especially when you pull in other verses where he pretty much says all jews are going to hell except his jews and that god made people especially so they couldnt recieve his message, yes god wants you to burn in hell

also puts our loving mother farther and kids family views in a whole new light

[edit on 6/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by badmedia
In the perspective of God, everything is static. Because everything is known. The universe is just a big static like painting.

You have mastered your own consciousness to such an extent that you are equipped to see from the perspective of Creation itself? Impressive

Never "seen" it. But I do understand it. It's actually the only way free will can exist. All possibilities all existing, side by side by each other.

I've posted about it before. I've mentioned it a couple of times, and don't want to be a broken record in posting it, so here's a link of this kind of a topic from not long ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by calihan123
Whether things are real in the physical world or not... they are very real to the people who experience them.

there are some things that dont add up to just "believing" in something.. there are scratches that appear on people from spirits in thin air, there are people who have a recorded loss of time while traveling.. there are people who go from non-believers to believers overnight. This is not all just coincedance.

i think the spiritual or whatever you wanna call it world is within our own world and if you look hard enough and listen closely enough you start to see it. you start to hear it. and you start to believe it.

I am one of those people. A few years ago I rejected the bible 100%. I had a "vision" of sorts, and after which I gained a different understanding and perspective about things, and that is when I changed. Overnight basically as you say.

It is a world within our own world. Nothing physical changes at all, but your understanding of things does change. And you kind of wonder - how could I not have seen this before. It also gets a bit frustrating when you get around others who don't see it too. I think mostly because it's a reminder of how you were at 1 time.

It is my belief that everyone "gets it" in the end. Just a matter of what breaks it lose for you.

reply to post by badmedia



right, i think at some point people have a change of mind. i have since i was very young, others dont until they are very old. like my grandma for example, the week before she died of a heart attack, she said there was a shadow man that was in her house and was following her and so she called everyone she knew and told them she knew she was going to die but she was ok with it.

some people dont see it until the very last minute, just like her

reply to post by noobfun


You are taking things completely out of context. Which seems to be pretty popular.

I'm just going to address the first bit with Matthew 10.

The entire chapter:

www.biblegateway.com...

Truth is a sword against ignorance and the authority. He is talking to them about how they will be treated.

reply to post by badmedia


here come the might back flips

did you actually read the whole thing?

which part am i taking out of context?

the bit where he said he has come to turn family against each other ..

sorry read the whole thing no where does he add special conditions no where does he attempt to explain its anything then it appears to be

he doesnt say follow me and this wil/may hapepen to you he said turn your back on them or you cant follow me

and that coupled with the several other abandone everyone or you cant be my friend comments shows you denying jesus's words to make some false ideal of what it would be nice if he said it

feel free to try and re-work the others to have some super special meaning totally against what jesus actually said

[edit on 6/11/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by noobfun


Because you are taking the literal version of what is said rather than understanding that Jesus is a symbol for truth.

It is not "Jesus" who does these things, it is the "truth" that does and causes those things. And the truth in the world of lies and ignorance is very much like a sword.

How many quotes have you seen from people over the years regarding "the truth"?

“The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.”

“You can bend it and twist it... You can misuse and abuse it... But even God cannot change the Truth.”

“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”

“The first reaction to truth is hatred”

“The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.”

“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.”

All these quotes about truth are basically saying the same things that chapter says. And if you read the entire chapter in it's context, and actually see things as something other than "This guy along time ago said he was going to do this", then you will understand the correct context.

You see it as him talking about destroying the physical, when he is talking about destroying the ignorance the authority of this world uses to rule over the people.