Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by tgambill
Interesting, that you also quote Bible verses that you know nothing about.

Does anyone know what many Bible verses truely mean?
Everyone has their own interpretation, and I'm sure you're no different.

Originally posted by tgambill
The Bible verses don't go against what I say, your personal spin and your deceitful interpretation is what I don't agree with and the Bible doesn't agree with you.

The bible doesn't even agree with itself... It has more contradictions than switch cheese has holes.

Instead of pondering why every single Christian has a different view of Christianity (even if only slightly), ask yourself why...
No, it's not because the invisible Devil blinds people, it's because people read into things what they want to see. I did it for years as a Christian, and was finally 'saved'. Saved from the insanity, contradictions, and hypocrisy (among other things.

"Does anyone know what many Bible verses truely mean?"

****Absolutely, we do. They are clear and distinct. they aren't to those that do not seek the truth. fact.


"Everyone has their own interpretation, and I'm sure you're no different."

****Wrong. Christians have different interpretations but they are all consistent with the verses as they have multiple insights but never opposite or contradicatory

"The bible doesn't even agree with itself... It has more contradictions than switch cheese has holes."

****there are zero contradictions but many non-believers that construct as many ways to deceive as possible.

"Instead of pondering why every single Christian has a different view of Christianity (even if only slightly), ask yourself why..."

****Easy, its called discernment and insight.

"No, it's not because the invisible Devil blinds people, it's because people read into things what they want to see."


******Exactly...the problem is that Satan/Lucifer is real and he exists whether you believe it or not. You folks do read into what you want and spin what you don't.


"I did it for years as a Christian, and was finally 'saved'. Saved from the insanity, contradictions, and hypocrisy (among other things. "

***You are talking about falling away from the truth and the apostasy of the church which is massive......It has nothing to do with the truth of Jesus Christ.

Hello again there our neighborhood pharisee.


www.voiceofjesus.org...

No contridictions huh? Paul - who established the church - contridicts Jesus multiple times. I touched on the fact that Jesus taught people they were the authority, and Paul taught people to submit to authority.

Paul says:

Romans 13: 1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Jesus says:

Matthew 7:
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.


Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,

Jesus says:
Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.


Oh yeah - and:

Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ . . ..

Jesus says:
Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.


Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;



[edit on 24-11-2008 by badmedia]

If there WAS NOT contradictions in the Bible, we wouldn't be here debating now would we. There wouldn't be THREE different religions that stem from the same book either.

I give credit to those who respond to this thread with an open mind. I have experienced some strange things in this world...one of those things was watching my mother almost die before me and her relating 9 hours of visions to me. Some of the things she saw supported the Bible and some of them did not. I do not believe this experience would of happened to a 'close minded family'. With a closed mind, you limit Gods possibilities, with a closed mind, you become as Samuel, a blind one who can not see the light that is right before you.

If someone tells you they are at peace with themselves from their own spiritual path that differs from your own, you should grant them the right to have understanding in their one on one relation to God.

The problem with the Bible-it makes people full of themselves. The Jews had this same problem, they were full of themselves, their test from God was a HUGE and HARD test....it was to NOT be full of themselves, even though the Christ was going to come from their blood line. Christ being crucified only shows where the world was in that time, which shows, the world was not ready for the Golden Age, it was not ready to LIVE WITH CHRIST(GOD). The Owner of the vineyard will keep sending his son and servants to receive the harvests....but we keep killing the messenger!!

There were things that Christ said and did that would not be revealed till an age that was ready with eyes to see and ears to hear. DO YOU NOT SEE THIS HAPPENING????? DO YOU NOT SEE THE PEACEKEEPERS PREPARING? DO YOU NOT SEE NEW TEACHINGS OF JESUS SURFACING?

OH ya, I forgot...its all works of SATAN..........

THE MASSES AND ELITE WILL BE DECEIVED!
this is not talking about non believers! Its talking about ones that do believe...but who do not see with ONE EYE OF LIGHT. Its talking about the ones who are full of themselves, so full they are blinded. The churches and teachings of hell and fire have scared the masses so much so they are afraid if the LOOK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX THEY WILL BURN IN HELL.


We are divine beings trapped in a dark world that causes forgetfulness. We forget what and who we are! Use your intuition, seek through mother nature to understand the cycling of God and see the beauty in the order of things because even your soul follows an order. Its not just some random coincidence we are all here wondering around for nothing. There is order, there is reason, there is purpose, and there is reason that God gave us our logical brain and our feelings of intuition!!!!

The biggest problem with the Bible for me---------------


>>>GOD IS BI-POLAR according to the Bible

"29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. "

This is speaking in reference to Jesus, as he has the authority because he was God in human form and there is no way around this. No contradictions.

Originally posted by tgambill

"29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. "

This is speaking in reference to Jesus, as he has the authority because he was God in human form and there is no way around this. No contradictions.

Jesus taught people they were the authority. The pharisees and scribes taught people they should submit to authority. It doesn't say: For he taught them HE was the one have authority, it says he taught THEM as the ones of authority.

Jesus talked about freedom, not the bondage of the church, not to submit to the power of the church and so on.



[edit on 24-11-2008 by badmedia]

I can make contradictions in your family history and birth certificate to prove that you weren’t born or that you were adopted, save getting a DNA sample, but then here comes the claims that the results were manipulated by false readings and discredit the Lab that did it. Its called disinformation, spins, lies and fabrications. Ever hear of that? We would be debating this since these techniques exist. As a matter of fact your post starts off with a false assumption and misleading statement from the “git go”.
The different religions are designed to lead mankind from the truth and to design false religions, manmade in order for man to feel good in his own skin. Follow me here…..”God created mankind in his image, mankind deemed it necessary to return the favor”. Man creates God to be in mans image which is impossible to do but in man’s mind it works. Doesn’t mean the creator of the Universe has to comply. 
God is not a God of confusion but Satan is a demon of confusion. He has convinced the world to many he does not exist, to others he exists as a representation of evil, to others he comes as Lucifer an angel of light, and benevolent. It depends on that flavor the Human can handle. There is but one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Although I don’t advocate his quotes, Bertrand Russell did say one thing that was astute. “All the religions can be false, but only one can be true”. How right he was. Only one is true. The ones that exault mankind and denies the deity of Jesus Christ are the false ones.

It is not my own. The pathway to God through Jesus Christ is the only one. To say otherwise is saying that our one God is not just and he is a liar which he is neither. That person with the spiritual path that he or she invented or fabricated in their minds will lead them to an eternal life separated from God. There will be many “Christians” that will be separated from God because they have denied Jesus. He tells us this from Scripture. Many preachers, priests, Pope’s, ministers, and evangelicals on TV that just aren’t going to make it.
People are taught to be humble as they are not following what the Bible teaches them.
Yes, I do see that the Bible was real events, written by eyewitnesses that didn’t understand fully what they were writing. Another proof that the Bible was inspired supernaturally, thank you for covering that one point. God is in total control. He allows Satan to fulfill the prophesy when God deems it necessary.

Second Thess. 2, is talking about both non-believers and believers that will believe their lying Christian leaders. Its already happening. Sin causes forgetfulness and who we are. We must depend on prayer and a discerning spirit to see the deception. Mother nature has nothing to do with it. This is New Age doctrine. Mother Nature was created by God as natural processes to fill his creation. Mother nature is no mother. God cycles what you call mother nature and we call his creation. The reason for what God created was so we would glorify God and sing praises so that we don’t sing praises to ourselves.

people aren’t reading the Bible, who are Christians, as the Bible exaults women and humbles mankind.
Colossians 3:12; 1 Peter 3:8; Ephesians 4:2; Proverbs 27:2; Isaiah 13:11; Psalms 147: Titus 3:1,2. There are many many more…..people just aren’t reading the Bible just as they aren’t paying attention to the rise of the New World Order soon.

BM, you have an advantage here. I don't have the time to go back and forth with your misinterpretations that come from Masonic; New Age errant philosophy

Jesus was not talking about people, he was talking in the context that he alone, God in human form spoke with authority. "He taught them as ONE who had authority". This verse was given to show the contrast of Jesus with the teachers of the law [Old testament written earlier], recalls the contrast drawn in 5: 21-47. where Jesus' authority was shown in his willingness, unlike the teachers of the law, to declare simply "I say to you". You will find that the next two chapters go on to show this same authority of Jesus exercised in action and not just words.

BM, he is also talking about political authority to submit to and to render unto Caeasr that which is Caeasr and to God that which is God's.

Originally posted by tgambill
****Absolutely, we do. They are clear and distinct. they aren't to those that do not seek the truth. fact.

So you say. But others who have a completely different interpretation of these verses would say the same thing - that it's clear to those who have the Holy Spirit... fact.
I've seen it all my life.

Originally posted by tgambill
****there are zero contradictions but many non-believers that construct as many ways to deceive as possible.

Zero, you say?
You know your own Bible less than you think.
Read it some more and look into all those verses you ignored before and tell me there aren't contradictions...

Originally posted by tgambill
******Exactly...the problem is that Satan/Lucifer is real and he exists whether you believe it or not. You folks do read into what you want and spin what you don't.

I want the truth. That search has lead me away from Christianity, in fact very far away. If the truth isn't all heaven, angels, eternal bliss, I don't care. I'm only trying to seek the truth. There are numerous problems with the myth of Christianity.

Originally posted by tgambill
***You are talking about falling away from the truth and the apostasy of the church which is massive......It has nothing to do with the truth of Jesus Christ.

I like Christ.
I like the lessons which we should all stop and think about.
But that's about where it ends with me.

Like I said....Full of one's self.

Only a fool knows himself to be wise, only the wise knows himself to be a fool.

It is not black and white...look around you at the confusion.

The book of truth is within ones nature, the sings have been placed all around us.

If you want to spend eternity with a wrathful God who lost hope for his children in the Old Testament and killed children and ordered man to go against the commandments he gave....then Im sure that is surely where your eternity will be.

What would be the purpose for a soul that must grow if all the answers were given to it? We should then be more like robots instead of fruits.

Mother nature is the works of God as well as everything that has a set order...all the way to the stars. There is not one single thing that contains the spirit that does not show us 'recycling'. We are born into this fire of flesh. Everything in this world is a vibration of light, one way or the other.

I think you will find that the ones claiming a relation to Thee Most High without any book or material to back them are steadfast and sure footed in love and peace and life. There is a reason for this...just as though there is a reason for your beliefs that God kills and requires blood for humans for their sins.

A never ending merry go round....is what this conversation is....but I cant help but to hop on it, for the passion in my beliefs burn in my just as much as your passion for your beliefs burn in you.

Lets let God decide...until then, I have work on this Earth to do.

Peace,
LV

Originally posted by tgambill
I can make contradictions in your family history and birth certificate to prove that you weren’t born or that you were adopted, save getting a DNA sample, but then here comes the claims that the results were manipulated by false readings and discredit the Lab that did it. Its called disinformation, spins, lies and fabrications. Ever hear of that? We would be debating this since these techniques exist. As a matter of fact your post starts off with a false assumption and misleading statement from the “git go”.

You couldn't make any contradictions in that stuff. You are just making crazy claims. Considering I look almost exactly like my uncles, and a how lot like my mom, to even suggest I was adopted is nonsense.

What we are more talking about is you saying the piece of paper is the only proof of my existence or birth while I am standing in the room with you. Just as you claim the only way to know truth is in the bible, while it is right in front of you the entire time.

The different religions are designed to lead mankind from the truth and to design false religions, manmade in order for man to feel good in his own skin. Follow me here…..”God created mankind in his image, mankind deemed it necessary to return the favor”. Man creates God to be in mans image which is impossible to do but in man’s mind it works. Doesn’t mean the creator of the Universe has to comply.

False. The different religions are designed based on each culture type. The words, the idols and the stories change, but the lessons they are trying to teach are the same basic lessons. It is the people who follow a literal translation such as yourself on BOTH sides who fight against each other. Neither of them learn the actual lessons, instead focus on which story is the truth and then blatently break the commandments they were given. It is the ignorance on both sides that leads to this. As you prove, because of their actions and focus on the idols instead of the teachings - each side plays the evil for the other. Because they can only see the differences as being the evils, instead of the ignorance they spew. That is why Jesus called people like you hypocrites.

God is not a God of confusion but Satan is a demon of confusion. He has convinced the world to many he does not exist, to others he exists as a representation of evil, to others he comes as Lucifer an angel of light, and benevolent. It depends on that flavor the Human can handle. There is but one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. Although I don’t advocate his quotes, Bertrand Russell did say one thing that was astute. “All the religions can be false, but only one can be true”. How right he was. Only one is true. The ones that exault mankind and denies the deity of Jesus Christ are the false ones.

And now you just go off on something totally unrelated. You have to argue on what other people do and say, rather than the person you are talking to now. When I do not respond with your typical responses of people who do not know the truth, this is what we get. Where have I ever hinted that Satan doesn't exist? Not a single time. As such, why would you consider this to be anything related to a valid point here? Jesus is the TRUTH. Only by finding TRUTH will you be worthy of God. Jesus was merely a TOOL god used to spread and show that truth, among many. You are the one who wishes to limit the power of god, which is ignorance and lies, and that is the work of Satan.

And then you go on once again with your premade rebuttles that only apply to people who can't see the truth. Your entire religion, arguments and debates rely on ignorance, just as Satans does, and just as Jesus says - you are powerless against those with truth. Your tactics of trying to fear people into your religion are no longer working.

And you follow it up with more of your NWO stuff. Which again, I am not in favor of, never have been, never will be. You are once again reduced to premade arguments that do not apply to the conversation we are supposedly having here.

The truth doesn't end with you. The truth is offered though the salvation of Jesus Christ alone. The only way it might end with you is if you accept the truth that Jesus is telling all of us. You are using the New Age thinking and this thinking is a counterfeit Christianity that is being embraced by the Current world religions and leaders as predicted in the Bible. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and leading the flock astray.

www.preteristarchive.com...


How Christians are deceived

procinwarn.com...


Benny Hinn

www.youtube.com...


George Bush New age.

www.youtube.com...


Archbishop

www.telegraph.co.uk...


Hagee [pulled the video]

pjmiller.wordpress.com...


Hagin and Copeland and I haven't read anything about Holy Laughter in the Bible or this behavior, Satan is alive and well in the church.

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...

Hagee's explanation of his previous claims

www.jhm.org...


Billy Graham

www.youtube.com...


Joel Osteen
www.youtube.com...


what about we as sinners and what is needed for salvation Romans 10:9. Not a motivational speaker

www.youtube.com...

Vatican and UFO's ????? its okay??

www.breitbart.com...


Oprah and new age

www.youtube.com...


False tongues

www.youtube.com...

we can't as only humans pick and chose what is truth and what is not because we choose to ignore it. How arrogrant is that. God left us with his Holy word, and ministered to us by his Holy Spirit to follow. Us ignoring verses and chapters because we disagree or feel uncomfortable in our own skin does not negate the truth. The truth as Jesus told us about, remains, we just end up not knowing the truth which is what condems us.

Originally posted by tgambill
The truth doesn't end with you. The truth is offered though the salvation of Jesus Christ alone. The only way it might end with you is if you accept the truth that Jesus is telling all of us. You are using the New Age thinking and this thinking is a counterfeit Christianity that is being embraced by the Current world religions and leaders as predicted in the Bible. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and leading the flock astray.

I found and got my teachings by seeking the truth.

Are you telling me that if I am seeking truth, Satan will answer the call and not Jesus?

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Are you saying Jesus lied? That when I started asking myself what is the truth about reality and things going on, that instead of receiving bread(truth), I received a stone(lie)?

Originally posted by tgambill
we can't as only humans pick and chose what is truth and what is not because we choose to ignore it. How arrogrant is that. God left us with his Holy word, and ministered to us by his Holy Spirit to follow. Us ignoring verses and chapters because we disagree or feel uncomfortable in our own skin does not negate the truth. The truth as Jesus told us about, remains, we just end up not knowing the truth which is what condems us.

So you're basically saying:
Trust in a book which has been handed down the ages and has no proof to confirm it's nothing more than a fairytale. Moreover, ignore the numerous contradictions in the text. Oh, and while you're at it, take it one step further and ignore the blatantly obvious contradictions in logic of such things as an omnipotent God having a struggle with Satan, or a 'righteous' God who judges us for how he made us.

No dice.
I have this one brain and this one mind and you seem to be saying not to use it.
Typical.
I will use what I do have, though I know that it's not the greatest tool in the Universe, I'm not going to blindly follow a system and hope it turns out true, or worse yet trick my mind into believing it's true.
That's anti logic.

"Are you telling me that if I am seeking truth, Satan will answer the call and not Jesus?"

*****If you are not truly seeking truth in your heart, Satan WILL ANSWER THE CALL. You cannot gloss over verses you don't like and cite those that you do. Surely you are intelligent enough to know that. Yet you say that the Bible has contradictions yet you cite verses and claim to declare them truth. Others YOU declare them not, or mistranslated because YOU say so?

This is pretty plain and distinct and leaves nothing to the Imagination.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me."

"Unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God”. JOHN 3:5

Through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, this is true

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (Matt. 7:7-8)

"Are you telling me that if I am seeking truth, Satan will answer the call and not Jesus?"

*****If you are not truly seeking truth in your heart, Satan WILL ANSWER THE CALL. You cannot gloss over verses you don't like and cite those that you do. Surely you are intelligent enough to know that. Yet you say that the Bible has contradictions yet you cite verses and claim to declare them truth. Others YOU declare them not, or mistranslated because YOU say so?

This is pretty plain and distinct and leaves nothing to the Imagination.

I would think the simple test for this scenario is the answer to this question: Is God loved all the more afterwards or less?

If Satan does answer the call and the result is an increased love of God, then Satan sure doesn't know what he is doing, or does he? (The question is merely in reference to the debate whether Satan is actually a servant of God or not.)

Originally posted by tgambill
*****If you are not truly seeking truth in your heart, Satan WILL ANSWER THE CALL. You cannot gloss over verses you don't like and cite those that you do. Surely you are intelligent enough to know that. Yet you say that the Bible has contradictions yet you cite verses and claim to declare them truth. Others YOU declare them not, or mistranslated because YOU say so?

This is pretty plain and distinct and leaves nothing to the Imagination.

John 14:6

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me."

"Unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God”. JOHN 3:5

Through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, this is true

You just assume I didn't seek with my heart simply based on the book you were given and never had to seek for.

You judge me as wrong based on the written, not on the understanding. Just as the pharisees did to Jesus.

There was a time when I didn't seek with my heart. You know what was given to me? The bible and the literal interpretation of it. Heck, don't even have to seek for that, it will be feed to you so long as you can stomach it.

And tell me, as you gain people based on fear of god and the punishment of hell for not doing so, how are they actually seeking with their hearts? Is the pure heart one filled with fear? How are the people who have these things forced on them from birth seeking with their hearts?





[edit on 24-11-2008 by badmedia]

Satan comes to man in at least three ways. First his greatest achievement was convincing man that he does not exist. This satisfies the Atheist and also the mother nature lovers. Second, he has convinced that Satan/Lucifer does not exist but Satan represents evil. Third, Satan comes to the more well to do as Lucifer, angel of light or some Alien race blah blah blah. As Lucifer he is benevolent but in all cases he is evil. Fourth, he comes to those that worship him as Satan whom they acknowedge as evil, with horns, ugly and so forth. He will appear to those that will be deceived based on their belief and their desires. He is the deceiver, he is in the middle of our troubles now......he has set up is deception to lead to a New World Order in the United States starting 1 may 1776, as this was when Adam Weishaupt finished the plan for a World Revolution. It has proceeded with clockwork timing as I have identified every single link and event since that date with not even one missing year to now heading into the North American Union and subsequently our dollar crash, to the One World Government SOON!!!!!!