**Important Message to ALL my fellow Conservatives** (please read)

Yesterday's "overwhelming" defeat of not just Mcain but the entire "current" GOP platform is a very telling one. This defeat is not so-much of an embrace of Obama and what he has to offer, but rather a defeat of the platform WE as conservatives have been told that REPRESENTS our Conservative values. Yesterday, republicans lost because WE (or at least a few of you) have been blindly told to support an unpopular and unjust war, (or else you are against the troops) we bail-out Wall Street, and continue to provide corporatist subsidies. Let's face it, people really think that Obama will bring peace and stop the abuse of our taxes going to those that do not deserve it, despite the fact that Obama will continue the status quo if not make things worse. Yes, Americans are that foolishly naive, but what choice did they have? Did we really expect the American public to vote a "Bush on steroids". (Mcain)


Please bare with me,

For many years beginning particularly since the Nixon regime the GOP has been slowly led to accept a different kind of Conservatism. One that has slowly adopted some of the views of the opposing party, the Democrats. Conservatives have been taught to accept that WE are a government of the righteous PEOPLE that we have a GOD GIVEN DUTY TO go around the world and mold it in our image. That if the world was not democratic, then it is WE who must make it so. We have been told by a certain segment within the GOP, that we must go around the world and defeat monsters. This is contrary to AN OLDER GOP platform and is contrary to what our forefathers have wanted for us as a nation to do. Slowly this type of Big-Government has crept into advancing and creating a larger Warfare state in which we now see collusion between Government and Large corporations at the D.C. trough feeding on taxpayer dollars.

Coupled with this Warfare government growth we have also been told that WE must increase government expenses here at home. To increase social outlays; to spread the wealth, to not cut medicare, to not cut social security, to increase unemployment benefits, to increase spending at the department of education and so on and so forth. We have seen the culmination of what maintaining a Welfare and Warfare state does to our economy and our currency. Even if we wanted to, could we realistically afford all of these programs? The frustration of the American people finally erupted last night at US those of us who consider themselves conservatives.

Who was responsible for turning a once Conservative movement of small government, free-markets, into one of Big-Government? We should look no further and understand that we have been sold a "bill of goods" by a group within the GOP calling themselves Neoconservatives. They have sold-us-out... to foreign interests, corporatism, and statism.

People like Norman Podhoretz, William & Irving Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Lewis Libby, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Robert Kagan, Donald Rumsfeld, Michael Ledeen, Cheney, Karl Rove, Frank Gaffney Jr., and Bush, just to name a few have corrupted this once great Republic into an unsustainable leviathan STATE were the ROLE of the president has been turned into a dictatorship, and where what we consider IMMORAL for us to do IN OUR PRIVATE lives is CONSIDERED as moral for the STATE to do.

What we must do now, is pick-up the pieces, and understand what is A CONSERVATIVE?

Ask yourself this question: What do I think is a conservative? IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY REALLY THE PARTY OF WAR AND CORPORATISM? We need to re-think what are conservative values or at least what they should be. Should our values continue to be dictated by a small yet influential group of people originally from the Democratic party that have slithered their way into our Party calling themselves "Neoconservatives", should we continue to be the PARTY of welfare and warfare, or should you and I try to enforce REAL conservative values, that of small government both here and abroad?

It's time for the "Neoconservative" movement to be put back in its bottle and go back to the Democratic Party where it belongs.


---------
A side note: The Neoconservatives are currently running around blaming everyone else except themselves and their failed policies, for what they have done to the GOP. We must not except these excuses and marginalize them from our party if we want to bring back prosperity to this country.

America...when the four years are UP and you are impoverished by SOCIALISM, WE REAL CONSERVATIVES will be there to lead this country and our people back in the right direction. We shall wait patiently...

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Gateway]

I almost agre with what you say...
but.....socialism isn't gonna destroy our country....
I think that damage has already been done, and the culprits came from your own party!

oh, by the way....
we're the majority now, the majority rules right...
if you're not with us, your against us....you don't think the same way we do, well, you must be unamerican, a traitor even...
ect. ect...

I'm only kidding by the way, but well....
it doesn't feel too good, does it??
if you want my opinion, this is what killed the party in this election, 8 years of the most arrogant, sob's that ever walked the earth! first they alienated the liberals, then well...when members of their own party started to speak out against what they were doing, they commenced to tear them apart.

I don't think we will have nearly as much "socialism" as we've had the past few years, only maybe now, some of it might be directed to those not so rich for a change...whoopie! if anything, it might balance it out a little.
admit it, the clowns who've been running things for the past 8 years pushed that pendulum so far right, with so much force, they ended up in far left field!! buying up stocks (by what I've read paying close to twice as much than what they were worth at that) into banks and financial institutions, ect...
if obama wants to straighten this mess out, he's probably gonna have to give that pendulum a nice push to the right...cause if he pushes to the left, well.....he's just gonna add momentum to the thing and we will be very much socialist, or communist, or something...but things will never be the way they were before the REPUBLICANS took office.
but don't blame obama, or the future dems if things don't work out..... bush is handing over to them a poisoned chalice to begin with.

Very well put.

Many do not seem to understand that Bush and his cronies are NOT 'Conservatives'. In all honesty, the true Conservatives of today were hidden from the world, and were not allowed anywhere near the presidential debates.. Or anywhere else, that might risk making their presence known.

Republicans today, are NOT "conservative". They are simply run by the same people as the Democrats. Obama's existence is not going to fix the problems we find ourselves in. It's been noted that Obama and McLame's polities are identical. It's the presentation of their 'views' that were different.

True Conservatives, like Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, etc... Wait patienty... They will not lose hope.

reply to post by dawnstar


No, Obama won because people in general voted for him, be it independent, fed-up republicans, even some libertarians bought the lesser of two evils crap and voted for him.

Make no mistake about it...Obama will be in office for 4 count them 4 years only. In 4 years this puppy is done put a fork in him, this sucker isn't coming back, he will not accomplish everything he wants without raising taxes, and raising taxes is not a good idea when we face a serious recession. I have some wealthy friends already saying they will transfer their wealth were Obama can't get to it. What does this mean...it means the rich are already taking their toys away, this is bad news if you want more job growth in this country.

Oh and by the way, do some research "Neoconservatives" came from the Democratic party. And that's where they'll have to go, once they are marginalized.

Great post, OP. That is it in a nutshell.

In modern terms, Barry Goldwater was a Libertarian. That is what the term conservative used to mean. Ron Paul is the only well known Republican still espousing those values, and we have seen how much excitement he generated and how hard the powers that be in the GOP worked to keep him silenced or discredited.

I once was a GOP member and locally active politically, and frankly, I gave up in disgust over this issue. Yet I also think that the only way we can take back the GOP is to do so from the bottom up. That is how the religious right did it, and the neoconservatives have cynically piggy backed upon their movement to take control.

I fear that religion is now so deeply part of the party that it will be impossible in our lifetimes to wrest control away from those who are not true conservatives but who are in fact authoritarians. I do not have the answers for you, but I am confident that this is the fundamental problem.

reply to post by Grumble


Yep, the GOP is a mess. Look here

In order to move forward, we must differentiate between conservative and Neoconservative. The Neos have got to go, or be ignored and that is the first step.

You forgot about the part where you shun people like Jerry Falwell and other Pat Robertson that say 9/11 happened to us because of "ACLU, abortionists, feminists, gays, and the People For the American way as sharing in the blame." and not our Impearialist ways. Or what about how New Orleans deserved Katrina because of a planned gay parade, cause if that's true San Francisco shoulda been whiped off the map decades ago. Neo-Cons arn't your only problem. Having people that think the earth was made in 7 days and is only thousands of years old, or how evolution goes against god, when maybe it could be that evolution is part of gods work or that he's given animals tools to adapt. Or my favorite is the part where some religous fanatic, I'm sorry I forget who, said that Freedom of religion means you HAVE to believe in God.

It's indicitive of the Republican party, and there politics of division. Don't take this as an attack on religion, but an attack of Religion in Politics. Cause if some people had it there way this wouldn't be a great republic it'd be a Theocracy, then we wouldn't be much better than those "terrible Iranians".

[edit on 5-11-2008 by djpaec]

I've said it before and I'll say it again if you hated the past 8 years your going to absolutely despise the next four.

And the OP is right, the GOP needs to purge the Republican party and get rid of the moderates. The GOP needs to go back to its base of small government and conservative fiscal policies.

reply to post by dawnstar


Bull, Obama and the Dems are in control now they have 2 years to make "change." Everything they do from Jan. 20th 2009 will be completely their fault. You shot down Bush when he tried to blamed Clinton so expect the same. A little less than half the country didn't want Obama and now the shoe is on the other foot.

You keep blaming Bush for all this mess we are in for his LIBERAL spending polices. The people mentioned by name in the OP are liberal, Neoconservatives are borrow and spend democrats. Democrats are tax and spend.

reply to post by djpaec


I'm afraid that the religious right (I hate to say this, but the evangelicals in particular) have been working with the Necons for their Big-Government Conservative movement for years. Particularly Liberty University, which happens to be Jerry Falwell's neocon breeding machine.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by Gateway]

Great thread. I have been bemoaning the fact that as a Conservative, I had no one to vote for.

I was given a choice between an amateur socialist and a part-time liberal. The media did a number on us. They touted McCain in the primaries, and smoke him in the Presidential race.

Either the Republican Party regains its conservative soul, or we need a Conservative Party where part-timers such as McCain cannot hide out.

Within four years, America will have enough of our new, socialist President, our extreme left House and Senate, and will be hungry for a good, strong leader with back-to-basic conservative values.

And if we ever want to take back the House or Senate, we're going to need another Contract with America. The last one was ridden by Bill Clinton for eight years!

reply to post by dooper


Thank you. The GOP now have to win back the independent, the libertarian, and the old conservative, IF they ever want to win the White House again. We should never vote for the Neocon clown they roll-out in front of us.

It's time the REAL conservatives make their voices known!!

We need to take this defeat and move forward. As others have pointed out, the religious fanatics of our party have destroyed us. Abortion, gay marriage, what else? We can be conservative while being modern.

I think we need to support some form of abortion. Cases of rape and incest, dangers to the mother and the discovery of genetic defects in the unborn fetus should be allowable. Now, my wife is a NICU nurse and we discussed this last night. Yes, it's still a horrible procedure; but there should be times when it's medically allowable.

I'm a straight guy who doesn't love the idea of gay marriage; but why invest our time blocking it? Does it really matter? I mean seriously, are gays going to ruin our country?

I, like many others, knew that we lost the minute we nominated John McCain. They say pain is a great teacher, well, let's learn!

reply to post by Gateway


Fortunately, due to the extreme financial depression, large bailout package, reduced tax revenues, and even more "stimulus" packages to come, the first two years will be a desolate environment that will act to limit many grand, sweeping social measures that the President, the House, and the Senate had planned and hoped for. Their hands are tied. Financially.

Many of their "hopeful" wanting change, will become very disappointed with the lack of change.

A good, conservative leader, along with good, conservative Republicans, can offer the American people a conservative Contract With America, start the race in two years, and the Democrats are out!

Good, common sense, financial growth, and fiscal limitations will win out over nebulous "change" any day. Because that change as promised, isn't coming.

reply to post by dooper


Here, here dooper!!

Although, they do have the FED ready and willing to print up the money for all the things they want passed which will further drive us into poverty.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Gateway]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

Don't you really mean to say spend and borrow Republicans. It is a more representative description, of what we have seen for the last 8 years.

This is an excellent post.

I'm a left-leaning moderate who is a registered independent. I voted for Ron Paul in this election. I would have voted for McCain in 2000 if he had been given the opportunity. Even though my vote probably wasn't counted (it was a write in) Ron Paul was in my opinion the best candidate to actually solve the major issues with our country.

The Republican party HAS become of the jingoistic, arrogant, fascist party of big business, Christian zealots, and what Eisenhower called the military-industrial complex.

If the Republican moved back to what it was, what it's values really are, (this was the party of Lincoln, after all), a moderate, fiscally responsible, socially dynamic party, they could reestablish themselves in force.

The democratic party faces these same issues in a sense, as they are the party of the other extreme. Most Americans are simply in the middle. We just want to make life better for everyone and not rock the boat.

That said, Obama has in my view the qualities that this country hasn't seen in a president since Kennedy (a true conservative, in my opinion). I see him as a unifying force. But he is a boom or bust prospect.

The most important thing, aside from the economy right now, is to restore America's stature in the world. That he can do in 4 years. His mere election alone has already brought goodwill.

As it stands right now, the Republican party will need at least 4 years to rebuild.

If they rebuild in mold of Ron Paul, or what I stated above, or what the founding fathers intended, then they will have my support.





[edit on 5-11-2008 by Mad Max]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Mad Max]

An excellent thread.

I have been called a Republican many times, and I always respond by saying I am a conservative, not a Republican. I believe in the freedom of the individual to live their life free from governmental control as much as possible, fiscal responsibility from our leaders, and a strong military that is used sparingly. But I also believe that programs designed to help those truly in need are a responsibility of any civilized society, as long as those programs actually help individuals to get back into the free market and not just to sit and receive checks for nothing.

I remember when Jimmy Carter brought about the effective end of the Democrats. For years, they had been the party of segregation, and of the common man. It was the Republicans under Lincoln, after all, who freed the slaves (and destroyed the South in the process). Somehow, the parties changed places, and the Democrats became the party of the common man and civil rights, while the Republicans became a party of elites. Under Reagan, this changed again. The Democrats had become the party of left-wing social (some would say communistic) agendas, while the Republicans returned to fiscal responsibility and common sense in government. unfortunately, that idea materialized only too briefly, and now we see 8 years of Republican fiscal irresponsibility, elitism, and disregard for common sense.

Perhaps this time we will see a change to a more conservative platform among the Democrats. I realize a lot of people will see that statement as ridiculous, but remember: Democrat does not equal liberal (progressive), and Republican does not equal conservative.

Oh, if it only did, if politics were only that easy...

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Gateway
reply to post by dawnstar

 

No, Obama won because people in general voted for him, be it independent, fed-up republicans, even some libertarians bought the lesser of two evils crap and voted for him.

Make no mistake about it...Obama will be in office for 4 count them 4 years only. In 4 years this puppy is done put a fork in him, this sucker isn't coming back, he will not accomplish everything he wants without raising taxes, and raising taxes is not a good idea when we face a serious recession. I have some wealthy friends already saying they will transfer their wealth were Obama can't get to it. What does this mean...it means the rich are already taking their toys away, this is bad news if you want more job growth in this country.

Oh and by the way, do some research "Neoconservatives" came from the Democratic party. And that's where they'll have to go, once they are marginalized.

you think we are gonna make it 4 years?
that our economy is gonna hold itself together for that long? or even a couple of years?
I don't. not without a great deal of sacrifice...FROM EVERYONE!
it's obvious to me that no one is willing to make that sacrifice. they are clamoring for their special government programs, they are whining at the idea that they should pay higher taxes. you suggest that part of the solution has to be paying those at the lower end of the wage scale something closer to a living wage, and they bulk at ya. why sacrifice when you can just pass the bill down to your children, and their children right?
I didn't support any candidate this time around...I won't support a liar! and they both lied quite a few times. now if one would stand up, and be honest with the people and telll them where we stand, and what it is gonna take to get into a better situation, well, they would get my support, but I am afraid they would get very few votes. the budget needs to be quite a bit more balanced, which well with the deficit we have now, means that our taxes are gonna have to go up, and those special favorite little government programs needs to be cut...back to the basics, figure out what we, as a country absolutely need, and cut the rest! I don't see why this is so difficult, my family has lived this way for a couple decades!

the rich have been moving their assetts and businesses offshore for quite awhile now, nothing new here....the more money we give them, the faster they move....
they know a deadhorse when they see one and they have no intention of sitting around till the vultures have devoured it and turned on them.
and to be quite honest with ya, our "recession" and economic crisis is just as much a result of outright fraud and other questionable practices than it is anything else. and, it's has cost us probably close to a trillion dollars as of now I think. if I am gonna watch the cost of living increase, my taxes increase, the gov't handouts increase, well...guess what... there is gonna be a shared equality when it comes to paying all this crap off! that includes the "poor", what the heck, with so many of the not "poor" not able to get necessary healthcare, this would be a great place to start! but, I mean all of it, the handouts to the poor, but also the money flowing into the drug comany, the research and developement ect. how much money do you think that would cut from the budget? it would be justifiable as far as I am concerned...you can't pay for everyone who really needs the help, don't see where it's gonna be possible anytime in the near future. so why not...is it really right to give the "poor" the better living conditions than the ones footing the bill? same with food stamps, there were many years when my family was living on $30 a week while a family of the same size, with no income were getting around $400 a month...cut it!
but, it also goes to defense also, we have overburdened our troops, scattered them all over the world, and quite frankly, they don't need to be all over the world. pick out what is necessary, give up what isn't.
and it goes for the "rich", who, by the way, are the ones who seems to me have profited the most by this little scam and illusion of prosperity that has turned into dust! by God, if I can go to work everyday, get myself home on a prayer because it hurts like hades to push a gas peddle or brake, go without healthcare, and skimp on the things that I want while earning quite a bit less than living on my own would require, and pay more in taxes (I already have over a third taken out!)...well....I am sure those making $250,000 or more ain't gonna die from losing a little themselves!
otherwise, well...guess what, it's not just the rich planning on jumping ship!
I want to see the people who actually committed this fraud, those who planned it, well, I want to see them prosecuted, that which they gained through it conficated and put in the treasury.
I want to see gov't slashed evenly, across the board, with all the unnecessary junk gone.
and I want to see everyone, including you nice "rich" folks bearing some of the burden.
otherwise, I guarentee you, I won't be sholdering it either!

the neocons are now "liberal".....that's a good one..
I suspose it was the "liberal democrats" that put bush in office also.

by the way, if the republicans proved to me that they were going back to the basics, well....they could actually get my vote. but, well, they've did their job, they've fleeced the country beyond what it can bear. now it's time for the liberals to come in and catch as many of the fallen as they can in their net, much like a fisherman catches his food in his nets. ....they cycle just continues round and round..

add neocons to the group of the alienated I guess...

The CONSTITUTION PARTY are the new republicans.

The democrats are socialists... the republicans are fascist. The 2-party system is dead.

If one assumes that Obama will unite and bring a more civil image to the US, that also assumes that external forces will leave him and thus the US alone.

I don't believe that will happen. Russia prides itself on its abilities to play chess. Several moves in advance, each with a branching capacity to anticipate their opponents moves. They are already three moves ahead, and I just don't see Obama as that perceptive and intuitive. At the end of the day, he'll be the one to make the decisions. Russia already has kicked off as of today.

Iran. They are hell-bent on creating problems for the Great Satan in any way, by any tools necessary. They will fund Hizballah, and an entire alphabet of other Jihadist groups. Their goal is the destruction of Israel. Syria's goal is the destruction of Israel.

The joker in the deck is that historically and traditionally, Iranians, or Persians hate and really look down on Arabs. Arabs traditionally hate Persians. Their only common interest is the destruction of Israel. The Syrians and Hizballah are too damned stupid to realize the Persians are pulling their strings.

Right now, the Iranians are funding Syria, and Hizballah, to fight Israel. It will be interesting in the next months as to whether Israel or the US will allow the Iranian nuclear program to continue. The problem is, once the genie is out of the bottle, that SOB isn't going back into the bottle.

On the home front, things are going to be rough for Democrats. No excuses now. On the international front, one slip up, and that mistake can haunt you for decades.

Lots of opportunity for good, conservative values to grow and flourish over the next few years. And when those idealistic liberals see none of the promised overnight results? Well, that'll be some mighty easy pickings.