32 people killed every single day

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Christ I hate breed-bans. What is it with these people and 'black.' Black dogs, black guns, black men. They're so terrified.

Good question. A certain demographic has a big problem with violence, therefore the solution is to punish all honest, law abiding gun owners.

A certain demographic intentionally abuses and breeds a specific type of dog in order to make the poor animals vicious and unstable, therefore the solution is to punish (kill/ban) the dogs.

If there were no guns people would still die in violent crimes.
There would still be drug addicts, desperate hungry folks,crazies,temporary rage.....etc..
Murder or violent crime won't go away. Before guns.... it went on too.
The human race tends to be violent and has for a long, long time.

Then again, if we all had guns maybe a person considering robbing someone would have to think about the possiblity of getting shot themselves.

Ok, time to write in another anti gun thread. "well if the people did not have guns they wouldn't kill each other with them"

Sure, let's repeal the second amendment. Works for you guys right? WRONG!!! The 2nd is the only right that gurantees the other rights. You take away one's right to stand against a tyrannical government and they can take all of your rights. That is why we have to deal with the 32 deaths a day, which, by the way, are usually criminals killing criminals, or good people killing criminals. So it's mostly trash that is dying.

Should people know basic firearm safety? Yes, but you can't regulate stupid. Stupid is gonna find a way to kill itself and others even if you take any and all guns knives swords bats poisons rocks and what have you off the planet. Banning guns solves NOTHING.

Personally, I like the fact that I have a right to stop the government from taking control of my life. That was the point of the 2nd.

Oh, and the op's argument that only cops or hunters should have guns? Fine, the gang bangers can just state that they are hunting now. And they would be, hunting those of you that are not armed and ready to protect yourselves.

interesting answers, a wide range of opinions.
i'm an outside observer, it strikes me that there is an extreme and vocal anti gun lobby and an extreme and vocal pro gun lobby but i hear almost nothing from the states about the really obvious middle ground.

the only reasons i can fathom for high caliber pistols, assault rifles, SMG's or the like are for either crime or fun. if it's for fun, they should be restricted to the range, hire and fire. there's also a case to be made for militias, at least militia members are going to be invested and it seems to be more in keeping with the 2nd amendment than the present situation anyway. an un-trained weapons holder is more dangerous than helpful in a stand and fight situation.

shot guns and rifles are hunting tools and a shotgun is also the only home defense weapon worth a fig, used as such, so it seems obvious they should be more freely available.

to my thinking, as an outside observer,the NRA and the likes would seem a lot less crazy if they were more reasoned in their approach, this cold dead hands crap seems a little nuts to me. it would also make the complete ban people look unreasonably nuts and give them less traction.

just an opinion, don't shoot

[edit on 6/11/08 by pieman]

Wow, 32 people a day huh killed by gun violence eh? Notice that the OP doesn't give any numbers for justifiable shootings, which FAR outnumber these deaths.

Common sense my ass. only if you ignore the following statistics.

Every day, 117 (3 times gun deaths) people are killed in car accidents. Why aren't you screaming about the fact that the traffic laws need a drastic overhauling?

Every day, 45 people are killed in work related accidents. Why aren't you screaming and whining about how we need better occupational protection laws?

Heres a good one; Every day 1483 people die of a preventable heart attack, yet you are not pleading with food companies to improve the healthiness of their products, are you?

Every day 1205 people die from smoking but your not picketing the tobacco companies, are you?


So it is obvious that the anti-gun people really don't care about saving lives, if they did there are better ways to save waaaay more lives then preaching about the evils of gun ownership. I think it's more important for them just to stick their nose in about something they don't fully understand.

Why do people fear guns? Mostly because they are ignorant and uneducated about them. They believe whatever someone tells them and since they think guns are "scary" or "evil" they think they need to be banned.
--------------------------EDIT-------------------------

Holy Christ people, have you even READ the second amendment? What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" can you not understand? Making rules that say you can only have a gun at home or the range is a HUGE infringement.



[edit on 6-11-2008 by Tiloke]

reply to post by pieman


The reverse is also true. Complete ban people started throwing phrases like "common sense" around in the 90's and that got us Clintons pointless AWB.

Morons would say: "common sense, how could these extremists be against common sense."

Just leave me and mine the hell alone. How hard is it? Everyday is a struggle just to be left alone against these self-righteous POS politicians and the ignorants they pander to.

32 a day by gun violence.
55 a day in Iraq.
1095 a day by obessity.
1205 a day through smoking.

3,500 a day by abortion.

Well, 32 people are killed every day -- for what...?
now if a criminal killed someone - are you counting that one...? cuz, if you are Criminals dont obey laws - they are criminals and guns... well, they are for protection... against criminals... so I say give everyone a gun and 5 or so years down the road... everyone that was a criminal well couldn't afford to be one... but this system works ... and the Gun Control system does not... it protects criminals.... I say shoot them at every opportunity and do man kind a favor.... decriminalize crimes against the population.... never... after all I'm an American...

reply to post by BornPatriot


But you didnt you read from the OP:

Originally posted by calihan123
exactly my point. they wouldnt HAVE a gun if they werent allowed.

All you have to do is tell the criminals it's against the law for them to have guns and the problem is solved!

Why not just take it a step further and tell them they cant murder, rape or steal?

Heaven is just a royal decree away. Hallelujah!

Originally posted by calihan123
Heres what I dont get. Why do people always think about the possibilities of other countries nuking us, or our own government killing us, or some sort of genocide, and not about the fact that on average, every single day in america 32 people are killed in gun violence. 32 people a day. And we are so concerned with everything BUT what is happening in our own cities. Our own neighboorhoods.

Maybe we should worry a little more about cleaning up the crime in our country before we start thinking about some outrageous nuclear war claims.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by calihan123]

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:

Heart disease: 652,091 / 365 days in the year = 1786 every day
Cancer: 559,312 / 365 days in the year = 1532 every day
Stroke 143,579 / 365 days in the year = 393 every day
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 130,933 / 365 days in the year = 358 every day
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 117,809 / 365 days in the year = 322 every day
Diabetes: 75,119 / 365 days in the year = 206 every day
Alzheimer's disease: 71,599 / 365 days in the year = 196 every day
Influenza/Pneumonia: 63,001 / 365 days in the year = 172 every day
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 43,901 / 365 days in the year = 120 every day
Septicemia: 34,136 / 365 days in the year = 93 every day

Deaths/Mortality rates at the CDC

I could go on and on..

Maybe we should worry a little more about one of the causes in the list all of which cause more needless death, rather than a uninformed concern over gun violence?

If you focused your energy on getting flu shots to everyone you'd save almost SIX TIMES as may people from a needless death.

You seem to just have picked your own personal favorite?

I think concern over what could kill millions in one DAY is much more relevant that something that ONLY kills 32 per day..

NO?

Stats as posted by gormly
the figures for the US are probably representative of all of western society, which shows something that is worth pointing out.

Heart disease: 652,091.......preventative, lifestyle related
Cancer: 559,312.......mostly preventative, mostly lifestyle related
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 130,933.......preventative, lifestyle related
Diabetes: 75,119......mostly preventative, mostly lifestyle related

now throw in car accidents, gun crime, the other obesity related deaths not covered above, the alcohol and drug deaths not covered, the AIDs related deaths and any of the other stupid stuff that kills people in the US and it starts to become clear that we are one stupid species. most of the things that kill us are entirely or mostly preventative. man we're dumb.

Wow. Obviously NONE of you understood the thread in the first place.

Im simply saying, too many people in this country have guns. They dont effing need one. Unless you are using it for sport or for your damn job, dont have one.

It only corrects everything i was saying, because all of you are getting so damn defensive about guns. You are so reliable on a tool that is used for the sole purpose to kill someone... it amazes me. Every single person said they want a gun.

A car can drive you.

A knife can cut your food.

A gun is only used to kill. Why DO YOU HAVE ONE

End of my discussion.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by calihan123]

Originally posted by pieman
most of the things that kill us are entirely or mostly preventative. man we're dumb.

Yup.

I know very few people who would point a gun at themselves or anyone else even disassembled and unloaded but I know an awful lot of people who jam a cigarette into their mouths every couple of hours.

I grow tired of supporting the stupid.

As a wise man once said: "back when you could die for being an idiot there were a lot fewer idiots."

reply to post by calihan123


And there's the catastrophic failure all the anti-gun folk eventual crumble into.

"My opinion is X" "I hate Y" "You dont need Z"

That's all that's required to pass laws and interfere with the lives of millions of people. Terrifying.

Though you left a big hole in your closing bought if foolishness. All guns are for is to kill you say. So why the caveat "unless you are using them for sport" ? What's sport? What 'sport' is acceptable to you oh great lord and master who selectively decides who gets liberty and how much of it?

The anti-gun argument defeats itself every time often with little or no help from the pro-gun crowd. Just look at the Brady Campaign stats on their own website. They applaud cities and towns with out of control crime for their strict gun laws. And yet it still passes laws.

Ridiculous.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by calihan123

 

And there's the catastrophic failure all the anti-gun folk eventual crumble into.

"My opinion is X" "I hate Y" "You dont need Z"

That's all that's required to pass laws and interfere with the lives of millions of people. Terrifying.

Though you left a big hole in your closing bought if foolishness. All guns are for is to kill you say. So why the caveat "unless you are using them for sport" ? What's sport? What 'sport' is acceptable to you oh great lord and master who selectively decides who gets liberty and how much of it?

The anti-gun argument defeats itself every time often with little or no help from the pro-gun crowd. Just look at the Brady Campaign stats on their own website. They applaud cities and towns with out of control crime for their strict gun laws.

And yet it still passes laws.

Ridiculous.

Sport means hunting.. Im pretty sure many people already know that.

reply to post by calihan123


Sport doesnt mean IDPA? It doesnt 3-gun competition? It doesnt mean biathlons for crying out loud? It doesnt mean silhouette matches or Cowboy competition? It doesnt mean the numerous other sports?

Just hunting?

reply to post by calihan123


I understood your argument but like someone stated what are the US to UK violent crime stats?? do violent crimes / deaths go up a gun numbers (and thus the determinant to attack/rob/rape) go down?

reply to post by calihan123

Im simply saying, too many people in this country have guns. They dont effing need one

Got to disagree. You just can't take away the rights of people cause you feel it should only be used for sport or for your job. People have to protect themselves also. Crime has always and will always be around. Criminals will always have guns. You are wanting to take guns away from law abiding citizens and leave them defenseless. Sure you could use a bat or knife, but it pretty useless when that criminal has a gun. Don't it bother you to know that thugs are in charge of many of the neighborhoods in this country? The main reason is fear and intimidation. The thugs have the guns and are not afraid to use it. I think not enough people have guns.

It's too late for the US. The Pandora's box of gun stores in every city and town has already been opened. There are simply too many guns in the US to take them away from people, as too many will simply enter the black market.

Luckily for many other countries, they never had that problem in the first place. Gun control worked so well in the UK because they never had gun stores everywhere, and there wasn't the massive gun culture you find in the US. They had a chance to stem the flow of guns.

Personally, I think if you want a gun in the US, you should be required to have regular mental health screenings, and when in physical possession of said firearm, have to be completely sober. If you fail at either, you don't get a gun, and if found in possession of one after being denied, you get a hefty fine and the weapon confiscated.

If anyone wants to end the vast majority of gun crime anywhere, target poverty. Happy, not-hungry people, living in a nice environment are not going to go shooting people on the streets or staging home invasions. Work on poverty and the crime rates will plummet.

ok im getting pissed. everyone acts like smoeone is constantly breaking in to your home or trying to rape you.

we arent constantly being robbed, or chased after by thugs

why does everyone keep making this defense of "we need a gun for protection" when those things dont happen to most people every day.

and if it did im not sure a gun would do you much good if your sleeping and someone breaks in and you dont wake up.

or if someone robs you on the street... what so you are going to carry a gun in your purse at all times? how about just carry some pepper spray. theres an idea.